I'm not into a United kingdom tbh, just whatever makes sense for each country.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I'm not into a United kingdom tbh, just whatever makes sense for each country.
Do you think England would benefit from a break up of the UK?
Scotland is part of us and so no, the majority definitely don't want them to go independent. Sturgeon on the other hand, well I'd gladly see the back of her.We have no idea whether the UK would be better off without Scotland, because its not as simple as just 'taxes out/spending in'. In the process you deliver a huge hit to UK international prestige and standing (which in turn does horrible things to our potential ability to sign trade deals and international agreements that favour us) and you open up a directly competitive market right on our doorstep who will most certainly be competing against us in tourism and a number of other industries. Oh and which also damages our national defense by stopping us from having control over all coastal routes onto our landmass.
Also seriously when did British people become all about wanting to kick other people out so their own little lives might be a few quid better off? Scots fought and died alongside our troops for hundreds of years, forged an empire with us, contributed to every aspect of British science, politics and culture, yet no let's tell them to feck off so we can save a bob or two.
I'm starting to actually hate my own country recently.
We have no idea whether the UK would be better off without Scotland, because its not as simple as just 'taxes out/spending in'. In the process you deliver a huge hit to UK international prestige and standing (which in turn does horrible things to our potential ability to sign trade deals and international agreements that favour us) and you open up a directly competitive market right on our doorstep who will most certainly be competing against us in tourism and a number of other industries. Oh and which also damages our national defense by stopping us from having control over all coastal routes onto our landmass.
Also seriously when did British people become all about wanting to kick other people out so their own little lives might be a few quid better off? Scots fought and died alongside our troops for hundreds of years, forged an empire with us, contributed to every aspect of British science, politics and culture, yet no let's tell them to feck off so we can save a bob or two.
I'm starting to actually hate my own country recently.
Hang on a minute let me get this straight. The Scots can vote SNP in almost every seat in the general election and you say feck all about it but damn you hate your own country if anyone responds with feck em we should kick them out and this in the Brexit thread where the general trend is feck the UK if it wants to leave the EU.
Its getting quite strange in here.
Scotland is pretty much doomed, somehow the SNP have created a shitstorm of millennial morons who live off their every word. No doubt independence will go through eventually. Will be fun watching Sturgeon try to balance the books to get a pass back into the EU, and then manage with an aging population, tanking oil revenue, tanking Euro and no propping up from Westminster.
I say all this as a Scot, by the way.
I say all this as a Scot, by the way.
So I see that Daniel Hannan has taken time away from going on Fox News, to talk about the NHS being a 60 year mistake, to call for someone to be removed for talking down a British institution. Obviously it's being lapped up by the Brexiteers because they just choose to ignore the former.
This post-facts world is great.
This post-facts world is great.
I'm curious; would you be in favour of London independence? Most of the country is a drain on us, and as Brexit shows there's a large discrepancy between the views of Londoners (and those in most cities) versus everybody else.
English rule has a way of doing things. They build the country’s economy around sectors which are directly related to England. It happened to my country too who was quickly turned from an autonomous region lead by the knights to a fortress island whose economy relied solely on the British army and navy. It’s ironic how whenever Britain was at war (apart from WW2), our citizens would prosper and when Britain was at peace we would go back to poverty. The WW1 made a lot of people (including my family) quite wealthy as the island was converted into a sort of hospital for soldiers, which in turn spent. However whenever the UK got a cold, we would end up starving as military cuts was the first thing, Westminster would consider to balance the books. I bet the same thing will happen to Scotland whose a bit of a cost center for Westminster.
From the UK perspective it was quite an efficient way to rule. It was almost impossible for us to fight for independence without seriously risking a big hit to our standard of living. My grandfather describes that time following independence as quite difficult and there were times when we had to rely on the help from our neighbours (Italy and Libya) to make ends meet. However there’s no denying that independence increased our standard of living radically in the long run. Malta is a prosperous country, with a great standard of living and a low unemployment rate. We’re also an EU member which gives us a say on what happens in Europe. The emigration rate had nosedived and people move to London, Sydney or the US out of wanting to experience something new rather then out of necessity. I wonder whether the Scots can say the same thing regarding London.
In my opinion the Scots should plan wisely first but ultimately go for it, especially if they can remain in the EU. Sure it will be tough at first, however considering that they are English speakers, who have similar rules to Englands, makes it easier for them to attract the financial services and the automobile industry to the North when compared to France or Germany. Their low population rate makes it possible for them to prosper even if they can attract even a 1/3 of all it. It will be more difficult to get independence once the UK (including Scotland) is outside of the EU.
In my opinion the EU should take the Scottish proposal seriously as long as Scotland commits itself to treat England, Wales and Northern Ireland as not part of the EU.
From the UK perspective it was quite an efficient way to rule. It was almost impossible for us to fight for independence without seriously risking a big hit to our standard of living. My grandfather describes that time following independence as quite difficult and there were times when we had to rely on the help from our neighbours (Italy and Libya) to make ends meet. However there’s no denying that independence increased our standard of living radically in the long run. Malta is a prosperous country, with a great standard of living and a low unemployment rate. We’re also an EU member which gives us a say on what happens in Europe. The emigration rate had nosedived and people move to London, Sydney or the US out of wanting to experience something new rather then out of necessity. I wonder whether the Scots can say the same thing regarding London.
In my opinion the Scots should plan wisely first but ultimately go for it, especially if they can remain in the EU. Sure it will be tough at first, however considering that they are English speakers, who have similar rules to Englands, makes it easier for them to attract the financial services and the automobile industry to the North when compared to France or Germany. Their low population rate makes it possible for them to prosper even if they can attract even a 1/3 of all it. It will be more difficult to get independence once the UK (including Scotland) is outside of the EU.
In my opinion the EU should take the Scottish proposal seriously as long as Scotland commits itself to treat England, Wales and Northern Ireland as not part of the EU.
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, that's harsh.Unless you think I'm mentally ill, which is always a possibility, none of the others apply.
I demand a refund of all the tax I paid
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Little of which has anything to do with a Brexit settlement yet to be negotiated.
If by leaked speeches you are referring to May's discussions with Goldman Sachs, no that didn't come as a surprise to me. I can't say that i agree with it all , however the remarks on security and policing echoed her years as Home Secretary.
I have no problem at all with state subsidies and attractive taxation arrangements in the short to medium term. Indeed, nor do i see why ministers should be embarrassed at the prospect. If we're going to make the best go of Brexit possible, the Government will have to counteract what uncertainty/costs there might be with other tools. Vehicle manufacture in the North East is both a success story and an impressive symbol, as well as supporting a significant portion of the local economy; in effect it will be an investment in the future.
Maybe i just associated with less abusive company.
I do find it remarkable that someone of your age and experience would continue to look at the world through such a polarised viewpoint, be it right/left or Remain/Leave. The idea that hate is the province of either in this country, simply doesn't seem to tally with the evidence.I am also the sort who would make their displeasure known, if someone close to me was being verbally/physically assaulted. The chances are that i would recall such.
Yes, that has been known to happen.
Maybe i just associated with less abusive company.
I am also the sort who would make their displeasure known, if someone close to me was being verbally/physically assaulted. The chances are that i would recall such.
I find it hard to believe that anyone, regardless of age and experience can't see the bile poured out by the Mail, Sun, UKIP et al as anything other than hatred. When talking about racism it's always a polarised issue, there's no such thing as an acceptable amount despite what your political mouthpieces might believe.
I repeat, you're lucky, walk around with eyes and ears closed or don't go out much if you've yet to see the rise in xenophobia in Britain.
Care to argue the toss over immigration with some real facts then or just happy with glib comments. Immigrants to the UK are net contributors who help keep our system afloat, we are not full and where services are stretched thin that is due to underfunding and not the presence of immigrants within that system.
The ECB have stated we will have to continue paying down our debts to the EU regardless of membership and the estimates are in the order of £350M per week for at least the next five years. The £350M quoted by Brexit failed to factor in the rebate to our contributions so was always a lie. Businesses and individuals are already relocating and our economy is at it's lowest level ever. Where is the conjecture here Nick?
Where is the cause for your confidence? Particularly if, as you admit we are likely to have fewer cooperative agreements.
All I see is mounting evidence that suggests the downside to Brexit suggested by the remain side and independent experts look to have been well founded.
As for our growing budgetary contributions, care to demonstrate that with some hard facts?
The trend was a rise during the economic crisis but that looks a lot like a fairly steep decline in net contributions for the last 3 years to me rather than the continuing upward movement you cite.
Admit it, you've fecked over the country for a petty protest vote and haven't got a fecking clue where we go from here other than down but would rather go down professing your satisfaction with the vote than admit your error.
@Bury Red
Out of interest and I know there is not one seriously being considered for the UK but what is racist about advocating for a points based immigration system?
Out of interest and I know there is not one seriously being considered for the UK but what is racist about advocating for a points based immigration system?
Why would you advocate for a system that has been proven to cost more and have no affect on the number or quality of immigrants arriving in the country? It's an unnecessary level of bureaucracy implemented as a sop to those who would rather we stopped immigration.
There's nothing inherently racist in such systems although many of the advocates tend to imagine it will allow the country to pick and choose the right sort of immigrants when all it will really do is highlight the holes in your labour market and training. I've lived as a high qualified immigrant in countries with points based systems and the resentment and open racism it tends to cause to the low skilled labour who end up coming in to fill the jobs the local labour-force will not is disgusting and in trying to control the national mood by implementing quotas the government often unwittingly damage other industries who also rely on migrant labour.
Good effin' grief...
Reading this thread and thinking about the problems in France and the UK, I can't help but think that almost all the problems come from the educating systems and the orientation.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2016/oct/28/the-man-who-brought-you-brexit-podcast
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2016/oct/28/the-man-who-brought-you-brexit-podcast
Interesting analysis about some of the people behind brexit; especially about Daniel Hannan. I listen to one of his speeches at a conference in Swiss. Interesting character. He is very intelligent, but quite delusional and committed to a fairly specific brand of ideology. In a way he might be the source of the "Brexit is great for the British economy" idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2016/oct/28/the-man-who-brought-you-brexit-podcast
Interesting analysis about some of the people behind brexit; especially about Daniel Hannan. I listen to one of his speeches at a conference in Swiss. Interesting character. He is very intelligent, but quite delusional and committed to a fairly specific brand of ideology. In a way he might be the source of the "Brexit is great for the British economy" idea.
The Parliament vote may throw a spanner into the works.
I remember the first police reports coming out after the Brazilian guy was shot. Acting suspicious, wearing an overcoat in summer etc. In fact he was wearing normal clothes for summer, a T-shirt or something. Absolutely disgraceful behaviuor by the MetGood effin' grief...
Please tell me that isn't real?Good effin' grief...
Ooh. Things just got interesting.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/03/brexit-will-be-titanic-success-says-boris-johnson
Finally something we can agree on Boris
Finally something we can agree on Boris
He jumped the ticket barrier, he was challenged by police and refused to cooperate, he was wearing a belt with wires coming out of it... All flat out lies told by the Police and still repeated, by morons, over a decade later. Don't worry though, Amber Rudd insists that policing has changed enough that we don't need to check if they lied between Hillsborough and that execution....and Ian Tomlinson's death at the G20 protests... Nothing to see here.
There will be riots if they vote against it, sadly.
Nightmare for May though, if parliament vote against it (or even if they vote for it by a small margin) and she still wants to push through with it, our negotiating hand is severely weakened.
The whole thing is a complete and total disaster. It should never have got this far.
Despite what people argue, the whole thing is about "Do you like foreign people living in your country?".
I do, so feck Brexit.
But, but... sovereignty!!!
Very bad news from the court this morning. Without this being overturned, 17m people stand a very real chance of being screwed over by the Commons.
Yeah, i know, it was real inconvenient for prejudiced Remainers when that particular concern can top in the actual analysis.
Yeah, i know, it was real inconvenient for prejudiced Remainers when that particular concern can top in the actual analysis.
Farage is getting worried now.Believes this is the Government softening up the public for a half Brexit
Joke Country
What do we want? Sovereignty! When do we want it? Now! What do we want? Democracy. When do we want it? Now!
No, not like that!
No, not like that!
Fixed
No hard Brexit!
Parliament is sovereign, always has been. That said, I don't see MPs voting down Brexit, but I imagine the remainders will try to get some assurances around the type of deal the government is aiming for.
Why exactly? You know better than our legal experts?
Joke Country
Out of interest, how is this bad news? It's looked this way for months, if it's unconstitutional then it's unconstitutional and end of story. To advocate the opposite is you saying that you want to go against the way our country works just so that you can get your own way.
Joke Country
The UK took back control and UK courts ruled against it? Are you happy with UK rules only when you agree with them?
Joke Country
I agree, what a joke country.... making sure everything that happens is constitutional and not letting anyone push something through that they don't have the power to...