Yeah what's the big deal?
Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yeah what's the big deal?
What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Ultimately it's hard to comment when we don't have all the facts. Personally for me if it is Smalling and Shaw I do find it a bit odd. Smalling has never come across to me as someone who's not willing to work through the pain and I'm sure there's been some games where's he's played on with an injury. With Shaw he certainly seems to ne lacking in fitness/sharpness and needs to up his game but given the injury he's had you'd think there needs to be some leeway.
In terms of speaking out in the public although it's not ideal I think sometimes managers need to do it. In the case of Mou particularly in the context of what's happened with Moyes/LVG and rumours of player power then it's a fair strategy for Mou to show he's in charge and as others have said Fergie has done it before. The difference for me though is Fergie did it, typically when things were in his favour where as right now we're not blessed at CB with Bailly's injury and Jones's history and so can we afford to alienate Smalling? Same at left back.
I definitely think some of the players need a wake up call and we'll have to see what happens but at the same time I do think it's a bit of an odd time to make the comments right now.
In terms of speaking out in the public although it's not ideal I think sometimes managers need to do it. In the case of Mou particularly in the context of what's happened with Moyes/LVG and rumours of player power then it's a fair strategy for Mou to show he's in charge and as others have said Fergie has done it before. The difference for me though is Fergie did it, typically when things were in his favour where as right now we're not blessed at CB with Bailly's injury and Jones's history and so can we afford to alienate Smalling? Same at left back.
I definitely think some of the players need a wake up call and we'll have to see what happens but at the same time I do think it's a bit of an odd time to make the comments right now.
It is not that easy for Shaw and his team to force a transfer. He has a contract till 2018. If he makes this ugly, Jose could very well make an example of him by playing him in reserves for the next two years and not selling him to other clubs. If a legendary league and World Cup winning captain can be treated that way, so can a 21 year old rookie.
Obviously, I prefer it never comes to that, and that we end up having a great decade of top football from Shaw at left back, under Mourinho.
Only if he goes to a club with pockets as deep as United. Wages and image rights etc count for a lot. Not many of those clubs round.
Neil Ashton saying senior players backing Mourinho in his criticism of Shaw and Smalling.
He's been accurate with us this season btw.
He's been accurate with us this season btw.
Ok for Shaw and Smalling... but what about Martial or Mkhitaryan? And what about Rashford who is kind of not delivering on the wings?
It's very hard to tell what's going on right now with the team. Obviously if everyone keeps winning, it helps to ease the tension but when you do not...
Don't know what you mean about Martial and Rashford?
You mean the coward Jackie Joyner Kersee, who retired from the hepathlon earlier in those same 1996 Olympics due to injury, instead of fighting through. A decision supported by her coach, who knew she could not win the hepathlon hurt, but had the small opportunity to compete in the long jump. So she decided to not make an injury worse, so she could potentially peak later in a big competition.
Oh and cute story, but she won Bronze not Gold and she did not retire permanently after the 1996 Olympics either.
You're right - bronze, I honestly thought it was the gold, but not sure why you're sneering? The story is an example within the context for what I was trying to point out. It's besides the point that she pulled out of the hepathlon. The point is, she did compete in an event with an injury. It's irrelevant that she chose the event that was likely to yield some reward. That's like logical - you choose to leave the competition with nothing or the possibility of getting a medal.
Oh yes, I said it was her last Olympics - not that she retired.
Must say Im glad the way this is turning out. One of the biggest young talents in the country looks to be on his way out. Martial - who carried you for long periods last season is now marginalized. Mkhitaryan out of favour while Fellaini and Young are viewed as main men and Jesse Lingard is viewed as a first team player
What makes this even funnier was Mourinho had perfect opportunity after a win to control narrative. Could of praised Pogba or Zlatan who had been struggling but chose to dig out a 20 year old who recently broke his leg and Smalling. Now its all the papers will run with instead of printing how Paul Pogba has quietly had a good season.
What makes this even funnier was Mourinho had perfect opportunity after a win to control narrative. Could of praised Pogba or Zlatan who had been struggling but chose to dig out a 20 year old who recently broke his leg and Smalling. Now its all the papers will run with instead of printing how Paul Pogba has quietly had a good season.
Martial hasn't featured for a while now, and Rashford had not delivered at all in the last games. Those were 2 players who did have some ability last season. I have the feeling that missing out on games means Jose thinks those players do not have the mental strength to be warriors, but potentially then all young players are at risk and it's impossible, or at least not suitable, to get rid of all those players just because they are weak mentally.
Just like with Hazard at Chelsea or De Bruyne at City (or at Chelsea), there is a need to find a system to get the best out of those youngsters too.
...and boom team successfully divided. Now Shaw and Smalling come into the dressing room, wondering which superstar teammates thinks they are pussies. Mkhitaryan sides with them cause he does not like Mourinho anyway. Some players wonders whether they are next to be called out in public...et voila you have a locker room mess. And all that cause Mourinho could not keep his mouth shut after a victory.
What he should have said:
Shaw is a young player, who suffered a horrible injury, so we are careful with him. We are a TEAM of 25 players, and I expect United players (starters or reserves) to be ready and do a job against Swansea. We did the job, we won, onto the next game. Smalling? Yes small injury. Didn´t want to risk anything.
Mkhitaryan? He´s getting used to a new country, new language, it´s tough he hasn´t fully settled yet, but we know he´s a fantastic player, that´s why I, personally, signed him. I don´t doubt his quality for one second and he´ll come through for us.
Of course it would help to put him on the bench even if you don´t intend to use him initially. But at 3-0 at halftime against Swansea would have been the perfect opportunity rather than at 0-2 in istanbul with everybody playing like crap.
That´s how a good man manager would have publically handled this. What goes on behind closed doors is a different matter.
If they (Smalling/Shaw) don´t come good you sell them, but not as damaged goods. Who does it help to tell the other teams that Shaw is either a lazy player or mentally broken by his horrific injury? Mourinho hurt the value of the player for the club and not to underestimate the player himself, who´ll now likely have to take a pay-cut to leave. Neither of these things make Shaw want to go through the fire for Mourinho.
I agree, I really don't think that's a good way of dealing with those players. But again, it would be good to have more information.
Ffs this place has gone full on RAWK if its reached the point of role playing post match interviews.
It's a clarion call that needed to be made.
By doing it in public, Mourinho's showing everybody what his demands are and that he's not going to be shy about making them. A quiet word behind closed doors would have had less of an effect. What the squad needs at the moment is a loud call to arms and this is exactly it.
Reminds me of when Fergie called out Rooney in his final season. That could easily have been kept private as well. But the result was a stronger and more focussed player.
By doing it in public, Mourinho's showing everybody what his demands are and that he's not going to be shy about making them. A quiet word behind closed doors would have had less of an effect. What the squad needs at the moment is a loud call to arms and this is exactly it.
Reminds me of when Fergie called out Rooney in his final season. That could easily have been kept private as well. But the result was a stronger and more focussed player.
I don't believe the board will allow him to marginalise Rash and/or Martial. That would be unbelievably stupid by the club.
I get where your coming from but the standard was 5th place and a FA cup not exactly beacons of hope for United. its up to those players to prove themselves and come back stronger. the mentality needed changing and Jose is making the right steps towards that.
We cant fumble without identity nor quality any longer. Fellaini started as Herrera was suspended.
Young in for the injured Valencia and Mikhitaryan was in poor form but dont let that ruin your narrative.He called out Rooney in his last game.
The point is she felt she was not ready to compete in the hepathlon, so instead of wasting her body on a competition that she could not win, she focused her body on an event she could win with the blessing of her coach. She chose which event was worth risking her body, knowing that for another two years there was no competition of similar status.
This is a league game against goddamn Swansea in November, not the Olympics, or a CL or World Cup final. Sami Khedira came back from a ACL injury at less than 100% to compete in a CL final for Madrid and a World Cup for Germany. I doubt he would have done that to play a league game against Malaga on matchday 11 or a WC qualifier against Scotland.
Christ alive.
I get where your coming from but the standard was 5th place and a FA cup not exactly beacons of hope for United. its up to those players to prove themselves and come back stronger. the mentality needed changing and Jose is making the right steps towards that.
We cant fumble without identity nor quality any longer. Fellaini started as Herrera was suspended.
But, a lot of people here seem to be perfectly fine with Mourinho taking this team to sixth this season. As long as he changes the culture or whatever.
I mean over the transfer request.
Rooney made it in private and it could have been kept that way. But by talking about it publicly, Fergie underscored the team's ambition and rallied his squad.
SAF kept plenty of other transfer requests private, but talking about Rooney's to the press was a tactical move much like Mourinho is doing now.
Last time I checked the season ends in May
I generally agree with you here but, actually Khedira did not try to force it in the World Cup final and a major reason why is he saw the negative effect Diego Costa trying to play through injury in the CL final had on Atletico Madrid.
This was a game we needed 3 points in after our shit run of results. It was very important for us at this time. Yes it wasn't a CL final, but where we are at the moment, this game was extremely important.
...and funny enough he was praised for the fact that he sacrificed the personal chance to compete in a World Cup final for the good of the team. And most certainly Loew did not come out after WINNING and said: Yeah we won, but Sami is still a pussy.
I've always loved that video of Evans getting bollocked.
Great chewing gum control by Fergie too.
Regardless of whether you side with Mourinho here, the man simply seems very frustrated for whatever reason and more worryingly, not in control. He comes out complaining after defeats, draws and wins and it is not diversion tactics like he used to do or like Sir Alex used to do, he is just saying things that used to come out in the form of leaks or off the record stuff. There were reports that he no longer tries to get close to his players after what happened at Real. If that's the case, it is really a dangerous game he is playing.
I am basically LoL when some keep bashing players including ROONEY without reading what Jose had said. ROONEY is Jose's role model, he will stay and play!
There is just no positives for Jose to be questioning players integrity this early into the job.
First of all, there hasn't been enough games played and these kind of situations to make definitive statements about players not being able or willing to play in pain.
Every player really should be given the benefit of the doubt this early into a manager's tenure. Especially players like Smalling, whose been a captain for this club and Shaw who by all accounts worked his ass physically and mentally to get back into game shape.
If Jose sees repeated situations where he thinks players are not pushing through a pain barrier in order to play, why wouldn't a 100% honest sit down with the player and medical team be sufficient? Surely it would have just the same if not better impact by just expressing his feeling personally. All this does is embarrass the players and break down the trust between the manager and players. Even if i wasn't the player being talked about that would not sit well with me. Jose managed to take a moment that should have been a positive and something we kick on from into a negative and a problem around the squad. Obviously still think we should all back the manager but i've been really disappointed with Jose's actions and his attitude since he has arrived. It's just depressing listen to him talk and the positive energy he exudes is non existent. Expected a lot more to be honest
First of all, there hasn't been enough games played and these kind of situations to make definitive statements about players not being able or willing to play in pain.
Every player really should be given the benefit of the doubt this early into a manager's tenure. Especially players like Smalling, whose been a captain for this club and Shaw who by all accounts worked his ass physically and mentally to get back into game shape.
If Jose sees repeated situations where he thinks players are not pushing through a pain barrier in order to play, why wouldn't a 100% honest sit down with the player and medical team be sufficient? Surely it would have just the same if not better impact by just expressing his feeling personally. All this does is embarrass the players and break down the trust between the manager and players. Even if i wasn't the player being talked about that would not sit well with me. Jose managed to take a moment that should have been a positive and something we kick on from into a negative and a problem around the squad. Obviously still think we should all back the manager but i've been really disappointed with Jose's actions and his attitude since he has arrived. It's just depressing listen to him talk and the positive energy he exudes is non existent. Expected a lot more to be honest
Spot on! A lot of people get bogged down talking about how things "should be" as in players should get a kick up the backside or whatever. How things should be is irrelevant, what is relevant is what would work in today's environment. Mourinho doesn't have enough credit or cache with us yet, he is still trying to establish himself and he clearly is still dividing opinion. When you are in that position, it is very strange to go out creating problems like that. It
Thursday. He hasn't featured since Thursday. 5 days ago
sory my bad.
The hilarious thing is that this is the exact group the majority of you accuse of being the old guard who continuously leak information to the media (rooney and carrick).
Devil's advocate (pun intended hehe) here, but maybe Jose is using the players' own tactics against him? Since we all agree that our players do have a tendency to run to the media if things go their way, he's trying to give them a bit of their own medicine.
Whether it works remains to be seen, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He (before it soured on him) sorted out a locker room of divas in Madrid, while we saw how Inter's Asado clan acted out on succeeding managers.
Whether it works remains to be seen, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He (before it soured on him) sorted out a locker room of divas in Madrid, while we saw how Inter's Asado clan acted out on succeeding managers.
he has a history of doing this though.
Yes he does, but not this early into his tenure. I can see this as him trying to lay down the law. You want to act like a brat, I'll show you how to do it properly.
I don't think it's improbable that Jose is calling out players publicly because whatever he's done in private has not worked so far and he's had enough.
I remember him praising the players for their attitudes earlier in the season and saying they performed well even though the results were not there. He's tried to be positive but I think he's decided that he'll call out the ones who are letting the him down, and then seeing who are the ones who will stick with him and embrace his methods.
It's shame about Shaw though. Possible attitude problems aside, I think he's got the potential to be one of the best left backs in the world.
I remember him praising the players for their attitudes earlier in the season and saying they performed well even though the results were not there. He's tried to be positive but I think he's decided that he'll call out the ones who are letting the him down, and then seeing who are the ones who will stick with him and embrace his methods.
It's shame about Shaw though. Possible attitude problems aside, I think he's got the potential to be one of the best left backs in the world.
That is the funniest part of his whole thing. It really should have his whole thread. Those were the two everyone was convinced was leading a mutiny against Van Gaal and the two everyone was convinced were leaking to the press at the start of the year yet those were the first two players he mentioned who can change the culture of the club.