At the end of the day it's just speculation that it's Shaw and Smalling. Seriously I don't know where these papers get their stories from.
Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Come on now, DT. That's not what people are saying. They appreciate the update but object to the subsequent sneaky insinuation of cowardly, unprofessional malingering.
I at least expect Smalling to buckle down. I don't see him complaining in the press either. I think it can be resolved with both players - don't think it's so drastic. The problem for Shaw is that his agent has gone to the press with this. Completely the wrong move as it will alienate Jose more. Otherwise if both players get their heads down I'm sure things will be fine. It's all up to them.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...and-luke-shaw-out-of-man-utd-says-andy-walker
Speaking on Sky Sports Now on SSNHQ, former Celtic striker Walker insists Mourinho is used to working with players who can play through plain, and that given his post-match comments, he is obviously trying to push the pair out of Old Trafford.
"Look at the players he's used to working with. John Terry, [Frank] Lampard, Sergio Ramos, Pepe, you can tell these guys are playing through the pain barriers.
"I think what it does tell you is he cannot trust Luke Shaw, he cannot trust Chris Smalling. When a big game comes along they won't be considered, because he's clearly trying to get them out of the club I think.
"Nobody is advocating that you have a hamstring injury and try to play through it. But the mentality to play with a knock or play with something uncomfortable, how many times has John Terry played through that under Mourinho?
"He's looking for a certain type of player. Remember, it's early days in Jose's tenure as manager, he's just trying to shape the squad, and these transfer windows only come around twice a year, and I don't think he can trust Smalling or Shaw given his comments."
After the match, without directly talking about individuals, Mourinho warned his squad that he only wants players that are willing to put their "bodies on the line" in his dressing room.
Speaking on Sky Sports Now on SSNHQ, former Celtic striker Walker insists Mourinho is used to working with players who can play through plain, and that given his post-match comments, he is obviously trying to push the pair out of Old Trafford.
"Look at the players he's used to working with. John Terry, [Frank] Lampard, Sergio Ramos, Pepe, you can tell these guys are playing through the pain barriers.
"I think what it does tell you is he cannot trust Luke Shaw, he cannot trust Chris Smalling. When a big game comes along they won't be considered, because he's clearly trying to get them out of the club I think.
"Nobody is advocating that you have a hamstring injury and try to play through it. But the mentality to play with a knock or play with something uncomfortable, how many times has John Terry played through that under Mourinho?
"He's looking for a certain type of player. Remember, it's early days in Jose's tenure as manager, he's just trying to shape the squad, and these transfer windows only come around twice a year, and I don't think he can trust Smalling or Shaw given his comments."
After the match, without directly talking about individuals, Mourinho warned his squad that he only wants players that are willing to put their "bodies on the line" in his dressing room.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ter-united-luke-shaw-jose-mourinho-criticisms
Luke Shaw has been left confused by José Mourinho’s criticism of his withdrawal from the Manchester United team which won 3-1 win at Swansea City on Sunday. It is understood Shaw is baffled by the manager having seemed to question his decision that he was not fit enough to play.
Mourinho had previously questioned Shaw after the 3-1 defeat at Watford in September when the 53-year-old insisted the defender was out of position for one of the goals United conceded.
Since taking over in the summer, Mourinho’s general approach has caused surprise among his squad. They expected a more hands-on man-management style and instead have found him to be more distant.
Luke Shaw has been left confused by José Mourinho’s criticism of his withdrawal from the Manchester United team which won 3-1 win at Swansea City on Sunday. It is understood Shaw is baffled by the manager having seemed to question his decision that he was not fit enough to play.
Mourinho had previously questioned Shaw after the 3-1 defeat at Watford in September when the 53-year-old insisted the defender was out of position for one of the goals United conceded.
Since taking over in the summer, Mourinho’s general approach has caused surprise among his squad. They expected a more hands-on man-management style and instead have found him to be more distant.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...scrutiny-as-it-emerges-chris-smalling-and-lu/
Mourinho claimed that Shaw, who has only just returned from a serious double leg break, had only pulled out of the Swansea game on Sunday morning but it is believed the 21-year-old did not even travel to South Wales with the squad and has told team-mates he is"baffled" by the situation.
And the United's manager insistence that "for the team, you have to do anything", appears to contradict his comments on Smalling after the 4-0 defeat to Chelsea last month, when the centre-half played at Stamford Bridge with a foot problem.
Smalling has not played for United since October 23 and is understood to have been struggling with the injury for much of this campaign.
But Mourinho's controversial remarks have only served to highlight his strange relationship with some of his players, following similar episodes involving Shaw, Anthony Martial and Henrikh Mkhitaryan this season.
There have been suggestions that players have been left disillusioned by his approach in the dressing room and in training sessions, expecting a more "hands-on" style which has not been forthcoming so far.
Shaw, meanwhile, only returned to first-team duty this season after suffering an horrific injury in a Champions League tie against PSV Eindhoven last September. He has only made six league starts this season but was targeted by Mourinho after the defeat at Watford in September, with the Portuguese accusing him of playing out of position.
Mourinho claimed that Shaw, who has only just returned from a serious double leg break, had only pulled out of the Swansea game on Sunday morning but it is believed the 21-year-old did not even travel to South Wales with the squad and has told team-mates he is"baffled" by the situation.
And the United's manager insistence that "for the team, you have to do anything", appears to contradict his comments on Smalling after the 4-0 defeat to Chelsea last month, when the centre-half played at Stamford Bridge with a foot problem.
Smalling has not played for United since October 23 and is understood to have been struggling with the injury for much of this campaign.
But Mourinho's controversial remarks have only served to highlight his strange relationship with some of his players, following similar episodes involving Shaw, Anthony Martial and Henrikh Mkhitaryan this season.
There have been suggestions that players have been left disillusioned by his approach in the dressing room and in training sessions, expecting a more "hands-on" style which has not been forthcoming so far.
Shaw, meanwhile, only returned to first-team duty this season after suffering an horrific injury in a Champions League tie against PSV Eindhoven last September. He has only made six league starts this season but was targeted by Mourinho after the defeat at Watford in September, with the Portuguese accusing him of playing out of position.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...seventh-major-meltdown-in-the-last-15-months/
(content mostly in images, please visit link)
(content mostly in images, please visit link)
The Independent ran a far less insinuating article:
Even now, 12 years after first arriving in England, Jose Mourinho still has the power to raise eyebrows. Not with the quality of his Manchester United team, or at least, not yet. But with the brutality of his public criticism of his own players, which sets a standard no-one else wants to match.
So it was again on Sunday, when Mourinho followed a 3-1 win at Swansea City, United’s first Premier League win since September, with another warning to Shaw about how far away he is from the standards Mourinho expects. “To compete you have to go to the limits,” Mourinho demanded, something that Shaw had clearly not done, by pulling out of the match.
It was not the first time since taking over that Mourinho has gone for Shaw like this. When United lost 3-1 at Watford in September, Mourinho blamed Shaw for Watford’s second goal, detailing in his press conference exactly what Shaw had done. “This is tactical,” he snarled, “but also a mental attitude”.
Perhaps it should be little surprise. Whenever Mourinho starts at a new job, he likes to test out his players, to see if they are as mentally strong as he needs them to be. So he drops them, criticises them, in public and in private, to see if they can handle it. It is part of what he calls “confrontational leadership”, the method that has won him so many trophies. “It is when you are ready to provoke your players,” he explained last year, “to try to create some conflict, with the intention to bring out the best from them”.
Mourinho has serious misgivings about Shaw, and doubts that he can be United’s long-term solution at left-back. Mourinho’s campaign of criticism against him may yet spark the improvement his manager is looking for. And if it does not, United can always go and buy a replacement, although the club want Mourinho to persist with a player they spent £30million on.
Shaw, at least, has still started 10 games for Mourinho this season. That is more than Anthony Martial (eight), Morgan Schneiderlin (three), Timothy Fosu-Mensah (two) or, strangest of all, Henrikh Mkhitaryan (just one). Mourinho decided on Sunday that the players to dig him out of the hole were the players who have been at Old Trafford longer than anyone else: Wayne Rooney, Michael Carrick, Ashley Young and Phil Jones, four veterans of the Sir Alex Ferguson era, four senior players who still remember the heat of the famous old hairdryer. It might be that those four, plus a few others like them, can stabilise United’s season and, at the least, get them into the Champions League.
But this is precisely why the Shaw issue is so important and so instructive. Mourinho’s methods were honed with the last generation of players, players now nearing the end of their careers. Young players do not like him as much. That was proven first at Real Madrid and then back at Chelsea. In both jobs he lost the dressing room in his third season, when the younger players grew tired of his endless emotional games.
When Mourinho returned to Chelsea in 2013, he found a very talented set of young players waiting for him. He tried to push them but decided some could not handle it. Three years on, Kevin De Bruyne is the best player in the Premier League, a £55million bargain for Manchester City. Romelu Lukaku is the most prolific young striker in the country and will only leave Everton for something close to £70million. Even Victor Moses is flourishing in the Chelsea first team.
Mourinho could not unlock the potential of those players, but it was his failure, rather than theirs. Now, at Manchester United, he finds a new set of gifted youngsters he does not know quite what to do with. Shaw has got it in the neck twice now, already, and their relationship looks close to breaking point. But if it was not Shaw, it would be someone else, another youngster Mourinho would try his same old methods on, but without the same old successful results.
So it was again on Sunday, when Mourinho followed a 3-1 win at Swansea City, United’s first Premier League win since September, with another warning to Shaw about how far away he is from the standards Mourinho expects. “To compete you have to go to the limits,” Mourinho demanded, something that Shaw had clearly not done, by pulling out of the match.
It was not the first time since taking over that Mourinho has gone for Shaw like this. When United lost 3-1 at Watford in September, Mourinho blamed Shaw for Watford’s second goal, detailing in his press conference exactly what Shaw had done. “This is tactical,” he snarled, “but also a mental attitude”.
Perhaps it should be little surprise. Whenever Mourinho starts at a new job, he likes to test out his players, to see if they are as mentally strong as he needs them to be. So he drops them, criticises them, in public and in private, to see if they can handle it. It is part of what he calls “confrontational leadership”, the method that has won him so many trophies. “It is when you are ready to provoke your players,” he explained last year, “to try to create some conflict, with the intention to bring out the best from them”.
Mourinho has serious misgivings about Shaw, and doubts that he can be United’s long-term solution at left-back. Mourinho’s campaign of criticism against him may yet spark the improvement his manager is looking for. And if it does not, United can always go and buy a replacement, although the club want Mourinho to persist with a player they spent £30million on.
Shaw, at least, has still started 10 games for Mourinho this season. That is more than Anthony Martial (eight), Morgan Schneiderlin (three), Timothy Fosu-Mensah (two) or, strangest of all, Henrikh Mkhitaryan (just one). Mourinho decided on Sunday that the players to dig him out of the hole were the players who have been at Old Trafford longer than anyone else: Wayne Rooney, Michael Carrick, Ashley Young and Phil Jones, four veterans of the Sir Alex Ferguson era, four senior players who still remember the heat of the famous old hairdryer. It might be that those four, plus a few others like them, can stabilise United’s season and, at the least, get them into the Champions League.
But this is precisely why the Shaw issue is so important and so instructive. Mourinho’s methods were honed with the last generation of players, players now nearing the end of their careers. Young players do not like him as much. That was proven first at Real Madrid and then back at Chelsea. In both jobs he lost the dressing room in his third season, when the younger players grew tired of his endless emotional games.
When Mourinho returned to Chelsea in 2013, he found a very talented set of young players waiting for him. He tried to push them but decided some could not handle it. Three years on, Kevin De Bruyne is the best player in the Premier League, a £55million bargain for Manchester City. Romelu Lukaku is the most prolific young striker in the country and will only leave Everton for something close to £70million. Even Victor Moses is flourishing in the Chelsea first team.
Mourinho could not unlock the potential of those players, but it was his failure, rather than theirs. Now, at Manchester United, he finds a new set of gifted youngsters he does not know quite what to do with. Shaw has got it in the neck twice now, already, and their relationship looks close to breaking point. But if it was not Shaw, it would be someone else, another youngster Mourinho would try his same old methods on, but without the same old successful results.
Not saying Mourinho should be given this status without condition. The thing is the player power seem to demand this problem to be brought up sooner than later. It started since SAF's left (I believe a crucial factor to our decline). So the manager's authority (may not as absolute as SAF had in his later year) should be re-upheld. Players going to the press behind managers should be a taboo
Mourinho will have to answer with result/ progression. We see our team created chances. We will need more, but that's a start.
While SAF didn't call out Beckham in this instance, he subtly (IMO) digged at Beck like when being asked about the wound caused by flying boot, he claimed it was a graze and Beckham didn't receive the stitches from medical teams, which is BS (SAF's famous misdirection) = Beckham made a fuss about this tied his hair up and revealed the wound to the media (see how Beeck denieed and SAF highlighted this point in their own books) ... All in all, the point as I said sometimes a talk is very difficult and manager like SAF did there used to press to further his agenda (wrongly or rightly).
There is another one for Keane IIRC.
Actually with international break, it's a perfect time. So those being called out will have more time to think about it and regroup before the club's games return. That would lessen the immediate effect on our result,
One more thing, this is not attention seeking. It's opinion stirring. So no need to worry about what the press thinks (face saving). This should be about how this outcome can decide our season, even future. Can be backfired, can have positive outcome. We shall see. As in the past, the manager should have gotten the support when similar thing happen regardless he's in the wrong or not.
All this is going to fester for a fortnight. I am not entirely happy with what is happening, but do feel these players need to be taught a lesson about commitment. Was it right to name names, maybe not. There again is it clever for someones 'people' to go running to the press straight afterwards. No it isn't and any chance of a reconciliation has been made more difficult. All parties should have just got on with it. The way the club has been allowed to be ruled by the players over the last three seasons is now coming to a head and he is seeing who really wants to play for us and for him and who he doesn't think have the mental strength. It is a risky business but a nasty one. There have been far too many stories coming out of United, from team leaks, players not liking the training methods, not liking the tactics, no chips, sending them emails, being too aloof. Christ almighty, just grow up. You are all supposed to be grown men and that includes the manager.
I'm surprised at Smalling, he's been captain numerous times. Seems a bright down to earth lad.
Shaw I'm starting to have a few doubts over.
Shaw I'm starting to have a few doubts over.
Has someone been talking or are they all just opinion pieces?
nobody cares about the medical staff or some fans. The team loved him and asked him to extend his contract.
You are extremely deluded if you think that other top managers act just like Mourinho. Simeone, Klopp, Ancelotti, Conte, Tuchel, Poch, Sampaoli, Emery.
You probably find some stuff on any one them (like videos about them shouting something during a match...), but no one is so consistently talking so much shit in public.
In the end it is about success. Man-management is part of the job description. If public blame-games help, great, but if they don't help the manager gets rightfully called out for his bullshit.
The first three seem to be a bit troubling, with the pieces in the Guardian and the Telegraph especially suggesting that someone within the club might have been talking.
Not good. Jose might not be the most diplomatic person going, although I think he knows what he is doing, but having someone leaking stories to cause trouble is terrible.
They were good players but it was the mentality that made the club successful over such a long period of time. The players came and went but the winning mentality remained until . . .
Very appropriate that you brought up Moyes. It shows the difference a manager that lacks that winning mentality can make to a group of players. Champions by 11 points to 7th and everyone calls for a rebuild because all of the players that were champions a year earlier suddenly became shit?
Other than the obvious answer of Ferguson is their any other reason it seems people here seem to think managers should have complete power over players?
What do you mean by "complete power"?
We've had players (not necessarily the same ones) leaking stuff for years now. This is why we need to stick with Mourinho; we have too many bellends in the team and things will only get worse if we allow player power to rule us. I hope he gets rid of all the rats and the weak minded fannies that plague our squad.
Nice article by Barney Ronay on this. Balanced, researched and neutral.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ster-united-luke-shaw-chris-smalling-injuries
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ster-united-luke-shaw-chris-smalling-injuries
If we don't we will be in big trouble, because it will be the same with every manager if he dares to drop someone or a result goes badly or says the wrong things to some delicate little soul. The revolving door of Chelsea and Real without the trophies.
Mikel is still at Chelsea?
10 years now. His contract is up at the end of the season and he's been told it won't be renewed.
Nice free transfer for Jose maybe.
Good article.
Good article, that.
Yes. This is not good.
I am just referring to all the " players should do as told" and people bemoaning "player power".
What a writer the fecker is. "a diffuse, room temperature group". Not bad. Not bad at all.
Same. Although Smalling has been captain, he doesn't really come across as a leader. Jose needs a core group of (probably) British players to drive the culture.
The interesting thing about Mourinho name dropping the English players with the right attitude (Rooney, Carrick, Young and Jones) is that none of them are good enough to get in the team and many could be gone next season.
Hopefully this will help motivate Smalling and help him become a leader within the group. I'm not sure Shaw will react to this positively.
Probably worth of its own thread. good article that.
The players are baffled by the fact Jose has not been hands on apparently, whereas last year they were pissed off by now intrusive LVG was.
Getting to the point were you think it's not actually leaks, it's just journos writing shit at opportune moments of the season.
Getting to the point were you think it's not actually leaks, it's just journos writing shit at opportune moments of the season.
I really dont have an issue with a manager verbally kicking players up the arse however Joses track record with player relations has me concerned so I cant be 100% comfortable about this.
It isn't good. The articles coming out now are making it into one. Yes Jose made the remarks and as I and a few other said probably at the right time, just before an international break. If somebody 'advisors' were not now leaking stories against Jose it would have all died down. The media would be focusing on England/Scotland etc, but they have made sure it won't. If they find out where the leak is they need dropping permanently and selling in January.
Has Mourinho ACTUALLY mentioned Shaw and Smalling by name??? The way some of these stories are reported you'd think the reporters have a direct line to the man himself? Pathetic!
I still have hope that Chris will get through this and become stronger. He seems an intelligent lad. As you say Luke I am not sure about.
He was providing commentary not reporting.
Yes he named them.
He's no worse than van Gaal who a lot of people still pine over. If the players ain't up for it, they just need to shape up or ship out.
When and where??
LvG annoyed a lot of players and fellow coaches as well.
There is a different dynamic in individual sports because firstly the athlete chooses his coach and can ditch him at any point and they almost live together when they don't literally do it.
Right, DT. I am particularly angry at Shaw's brother. What a duffer. Agents and advisors/friends etc. have far too much power. Still, Mou brings a worrying air of sulphur with him. Strange days. To be completely honest, I didn't like him when he was at other clubs. In this influx of 'foreign' coaches I still kind of wonder whether we took the best option. I am still hopeful, though. I will be thrilled if all this has happy endings, what a turnaround that would be for ABU's, pundits, and woosy player-doubters alike.
I posted a link to a M.E.N. article earlier and it is quoting him.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...manchester-united-news-mourinho-fury-12136445
And that was between spouses which makes it Worlds away from this whole situation.