Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."

Do you agree with Jose criticizing players in public for not being willing/fit to play?


  • Total voters
    566
This is just nonsensical.

Herrera has been one of the first names in the teemsheet after largely been ignored by the previous manager.Mata has worked hard and proven Mourinho wrong,so much so that he even publically admitted this.

If you are going to make up future scenarios,at least make them plausible.
Costa and Fabregas were pivotal one season as well. What happened next?

Herrera is doing the defensive work rate right now because he gets to play and getting call-ups for Spain. But it's not in his nature to play as a ball-winner. Similarly, Mata likes to play with the ball.

I think it's very plausible that after a season of two of this football, they get fed up. I'm not saying that it's the manager who should leave, but I think it's fair to say Herrera and Mata would prefer playing in a possession-based team.
 
It's funny of how people talk of Rooney being toxic and a leak and in these comments yesterday he was one of the 4-5 people Jose mentioned as those who'll play through pain for the club/ones he trusts.
As for the comments in general, seems a bit OTT for me and a bit classless atleast in the case of Shaw. You can't blame him for being a bit hesitant about picking up another injury. Also it would be pretty poinltess if they played injured and then had to be subbed off and wasted a sub and/or caused a change in tactics and defensive line mid game. I just don't undersand the timing of the comments. He usually does this nonsense to defect attention away from a poor result. This time he's defected attention away from a good performance and result and ensured this is what the media talk about now. Really unnecessary imo.
 
What i think Jose meant was that top players play despite the pain, despite an injury which will hurt them but no injure them. I remember Rafael played woith broken fingers,Valencia broke his hand and played on, Evra was never injured in his time here, Ronaldo was the same. I remember a story from Ronaldo's gf that when he had sex with her, he would do her and then immediately put ice on his ankle and still play games, Messi has played injured a whole season, John terry came back from a boot on the head in 2 days,Vidic would not go off easily, Drogba similarly. I think this is a sign of Mental weakness from Shaw like it was with Louis Saha, he dint fancy it and hence put the team in jeopardy. We all know jose hates slackers and maybe Shaw this season hasnt been upto the mark. He was blamed for two goals earlier and has been poor. I think refusing to play on the game day is what was the straw that made jose say what he did. He must have felt let down. I am sure the medical staff would have passed him fit, had they not, surely Jose wouldnt say this.

Sure it was evident at Chelsea that Mourinho fell out with his medical team if they didn't tell him what he wanted to hear.
 
Costa and Fabregas were pivotal one season as well. What happened next?

Herrera is doing the defensive work rate right now because he gets to play and getting call-ups for Spain. But it's not in his nature to play as a ball-winner. Similarly, Mata likes to play with the ball.

I think it's very plausible that after a season of two of this football, they get fed up. I'm not saying that it's the manager who should leave, but I think it's fair to say Herrera and Mata would prefer playing in a possession-based team.
Herrera didn't even get to play in the possession based team we've had over the last two years.
 
1200 replies? Wtf?

There needs to be a 4th option in the poll:

"Yes, the players need a kick up the bum, but Mourinho should still have handled it internally".
 
Mourinho did manage before his Madrid days you know and his teams before that loved him also.
Also you do remember Pep had a rift with medical staff at Bayern?

Then again José and Eva's spat isn't to be counted amongst the better Manager/Doc relationships in football is it. I'm getting the impression that on injury issues José seems to think he's the supreme authority..when it suits him that is..
 
It's funny of how people talk of Rooney being toxic and a leak and in these comments yesterday he was one of the 4-5 people Jose mentioned as those who'll play through pain for the club/ones he trusts.
As for the comments in general, seems a bit OTT for me and a bit classless atleast in the case of Shaw. You can't blame him for being a bit hesitant about picking up another injury. Also it would be pretty poinltess if they played injured and then had to be subbed off and wasted a sub and/or caused a change in tactics and defensive line mid game. I just don't undersand the timing of the comments. He usually does this nonsense to defect attention away from a poor result. This time he's defected attention away from a good performance and result and ensured this is what the media talk about now. Really unnecessary imo.

That is one part being buried here. Two of the three players he mentioned who can change the club culture Rooney and Carrick are the two players everybody here was completely sure were behind the leaks earlier this season.
 
Still can't get my head around this. If there are a contingent of piss-takers dragging the club down, are we seriously suggesting that Smalling and Shaw are top of that list? It's divisive, poisonous stuff, the opposite of what I want to see at the club. If there's deadwood to be cleared, clear it. But not like this.

Who knows but its definitely a case of having too many players in the squad who lack the burning hunger and desire to achieve as much as possible. Not necessarily poor professionals, which those two are definitely not, but just lacking that extra determination that you need to play for this club, considering its expectations.
 
I have no issue with Mourinho criticising players in public. I think people are getting too caught up on this aspect.

The real issue is we don't know whether Shaw's concerns were legitimate. His case is unique than another players because he has just suffered a horrific injury that would've mentally broken him as much as it did physically.

It's not fair for Jose to criticise Shaw if he doesn't have enough incentive to do so.
 
Still can't get my head around this. If there are a contingent of piss-takers dragging the club down, are we seriously suggesting that Smalling and Shaw are top of that list? It's divisive, poisonous stuff, the opposite of what I want to see at the club. If there's deadwood to be cleared, clear it. But not like this.

Exatly throw him to the stands and sell him in the next transfer window no need for a soap opera. With the international break upon us the media are gonna be making up stories for the next two weeks about this whole thing.
 
Who knows but its definitely a case of having too many players in the squad who lack the burning hunger and desire to achieve as much as possible. Not necessarily poor professionals, which those two are definitely not, but just lacking that extra determination that you need to play for this club, considering its expectations.
Yeah, I can buy that but what's wrong with spending a couple of months assessing them in training then quietly moving them on? Why all the drama?
 
Shaw's agent really shouldn't be doing this. How does that help the lad?

For the players on painkillers - if the medical team says you can't play then fine. But the excuse of being on painkillers doesn't mean you can't play. Plenty of sports people do it. On his way to winning his Wimbledon title, Goran Ivanisevic played the entire two weeks on painkillers. So it is done.
 
Exatly throw him to the stands and sell him in the next transfer window no need for a soap opera. With the international break upon us the media are gonna be making up stories for the next two weeks about this whole thing.
And that's Jose's fault. He could have just kept shut and dealt with it internally
 
Shaw's agent really shouldn't be doing this. How does that help the lad?

For the players on painkillers - if the medical team says you can't play then fine. But the excuse of being on painkillers doesn't mean you can't play. Plenty of sports people do it. On his way to winning his Wimbledon title, Goran Ivanisevic played the entire two weeks on painkillers. So it is done.

Just because it does happen does not mean it should happen.
 
Yeah, I can buy that but what's wrong with spending a couple of months assessing them in training then quietly moving them on? Why all the drama?

I guess he's fecking angry because; a.we're 8th. b.we've been putting in gutless performances with no fight or courage. and c.someone keeps leaking shite to the press about discontent.
 
That is one part being buried here. Two of the three players he mentioned who can change the club culture Rooney and Carrick are the two players everybody here was completely sure were behind the leaks earlier this season.
Shaw leaking doesn't mean Rooney hasn't. If Jose really believes those two who've been a part of the whole rotten culture for 3 years is going to change anything, then he will find he is mistaken imho.
 
Just because it does happen does not mean it should happen.
The point is people in all kinds of sports do it. Not because you have some pain does not mean you don't try to perform. Unless the doctor tells you categorically that you must not play, most driven sports people will push it to the limits.
 
I guess he's fecking angry because; a.we're 8th. b.we've been putting in gutless performances with no fight or courage. and c.someone keeps leaking shite to the press about discontent.

I'm no PR man but I'm not sure the way to plug moany leaks to the press is to moan to the press. Petrol on flames. Surely less press is what we need? Like I say, I'm no expert.
 
How can anyone defend Mourinho for going out with this in public? What good is gonna come from this?
 
Just because it does happen does not mean it should happen.

The point is people in all kinds of sports do it. Not because you have some pain does not mean you don't try to perform. Unless the doctor tells you categorically that you must not play, most driven sports people will push it to the limits.
Edit - and if Goran had chickened out and not took the pain killers, he would never have been Wimbledon champ. You can bet he doesn't regret it one bit!
 
This may go to bigger problem, so I will go brief.

Yes, it's the board fault if theey keep this going. However, Moyes and LVG's sacking is unpreventable. Why? We got the wrong coaches in the first place. Why? Moyes should never bee given the job given his ability. LVG philosophy is too foreign to our own identity. So in correcting the previous mistake, a big problem has been created in the dressing room with player power growing and they have learned a bad behavior by bypassing the manager and go to thee press... This is what I said should be stopped and be corrected now to how it used to be under SAF.

Here is SAF's quote

“The minute a Manchester United player thought he was bigger than the manager, he had to go. I used to say, ‘The moment the manager loses his authority, you don’t have a club. The players will be running it, and then you’re in trouble.”

SAF often used the press to spin thing into his view and push his agenda on the matter. It's a tactic used to manage, too. It's a myth that you can always sit down together and talk. Reading SAF's feud with players from his narrative and players' narrative, you can see how these people at times didn't talk to each other but playing a chess game using the press... The winner would be decided by the support from the outside gathered by the press... In the past more often than not, for this club the support lies with the boss than with the player despite the player may be the victim (Stam)



This is entertaining read:
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/4jtt4q/in_their_own_words_the_breakdown_between_david/

Awesome link man! I must admit, SAF acted a lot like Mourinho is doing now. Having said that, he didn't actually say this in the press at the time, did he? It all came out later in the autobiography.

Plus, should Mourinho be given the same status as a 16-yr SAF in six months? His playing style is under scrutiny too.
 
I'm no PR man but I'm not sure the way to plug moany leaks to the press is to moan to the press. Petrol on flames. Surely less press is what we need? Like I say, I'm no expert.

You're right it probably isn't, but then again maybe thye both see this as the best way to let the fans know whats going on.
 
The point is people in all kinds of sports do it. Not because you have some pain does not mean you don't try to perform. Unless the doctor tells you categorically that you must not play, most driven sports people will push it to the limits.

Not entirely on topic but, I am generally completely against players using painkillers and I think all sports should be working to massively lessen the use in their sports.
 
Not entirely on topic but, I am generally completely against players using painkillers and I think all sports should be working to massively lessen the use in their sports.
Ok fair enough.
 
If nothing was said we would all be moaning that the club don't keep us in the picture with regarding why someone isn't playing. The moaning that goes on after press conferences about the media not asking the right questions.
 
I'm sorry to the butthurt fans here but I don't mind Jose calling out pussies. You're a highly paid footballer at a club that demands you to go out there and give it your all. If you feel 95% and not 100%, but choose not to fight for the cause, you can rightly feck off. Someone else with a greater hunger will want your place.
 
I'm sorry to the butthurt fans here but I don't mind Jose calling out pussies. You're a highly paid footballer at a club that demands you to go out there and give it your all. If you feel 95% and not 100%, but choose not to fight for the cause, you can rightly feck off. Someone else with a greater hunger will want your place.

Fair play. Down with butthurt pussies. Logic wins again.
 
Herrera didn't even get to play in the possession based team we've had over the last two years.

Yes, and that was LvG's decision, not Herrera's.

Atm, he's happy playing the Makelele role, simply because he gets to play. But imo, he would prefer playing more advanced with more creative responsibility.

I don't think neither he nor Mourinho will be satisfied with his present role in the long-term. Whether Mourinho makes transfers to replace him or complement him, remains to be seen.
 
If nothing was said we would all be moaning that the club don't keep us in the picture with regarding why someone isn't playing. The moaning that goes on after press conferences about the media not asking the right questions.

Also about how Jose dropped Shaw after Thursday
 
I didn't see klopp getting stick off the press for having a pop at sturridge for not playing through the pain barrier when he first took over .
Typical anti united manager witch hunt if you ask me . If Jose can toughen our mentality up the let him get on with it . We've played like pussys since saf left .
 
Shaw and Smalling opt out of the game for whatever reason - we don't know the details.
Mourinho calls them out indirectly in the press - we don't know if he's done it internally, or other details.
Multiple outlets of the press report simultaneously that Shaw is 'baffled' by Jose's comments, and that players are not happy with him.

We've seen this from Jose before, and we've seen this from the press before, we've seen this from the players before. It's deja vu. Last two times for the players and last two times for the manager, it ended up getting the manager ousted in the long run. This phase has come alarmingly quick this time, through decisions made by Jose himself, I really hope he knew what he was doing and saying, and the kind of untenable situations it leads to.

I personally back Jose through this, but we cannot have a divisiveness in the squad, the players need to respect the manager and play for him. Similarly the manager needs to do his part to keep the players on board, and try and get the best out of them. In this scenario, for the best of the club, I hope Jose sits down with Shaw over the next two weeks and communicates in a gentler way, and that Shaw takes that criticism positively, and adapts. The club must leave this behind, and ideally we want both the player and manager to be on good terms with each other, despite events like these.

Let's see how it pans out - if Shaw doesn't impress Mourinho and goes down the press route, he will shown the door for sure. And we don't want to be losing out on one of the most promising left backs in the world to something as silly as this.
 
Some pundits are surmising that those two players (Shaw and Smalling) are now "done" as United players as long as Mourinho is here. Is it really that serious???
 
People complaining he didn't handle it internally. Maybe he tried at first but it didn't work.
 
Some pundits are surmising that those two players (Shaw and Smalling) are now "done" as United players as long as Mourinho is here. Is it really that serious???
Probably. Jose hates sulkers/people with poor mentality.

They did themselves no favors.... If we lose them, so be it. Neither of them are outstanding anyway. We're Man United, we'll just buy someone better. Shaw has massive hype surrounding him but to be honest, I don't think he will change as a player. He's not a full back like Evra or Irwin. And I don't see him all of a sudden becoming a good attacking one. You either have it or you don't.
 
Get some chewing gum Jose, and chill out, just like SAF. Less talk more chew., and action on pitch. You need more time, we all know that but the only one panicking apart from the usual panic fan types is you. Get it together man. Do not talk so much to the English press they will kill you. Keep them guessing at all times.