Apologies, I didn't mean to repress you there.
Has political correctness actually gone mad?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It's the sharp intake of breath when some neanderthal started clapping that I'd have enjoyed the most.
From that it actually sounds like it's to protect against some bizarre performance anxiety for the speaker. Seems to include all kinds of audible appreciation.
Of course the quote would come from someone with a stupendously posh double barrel surname.
Surely one of the benefits of attending university is to be open to and to experience new and different situations, opinions and world views? Anyone not prepared to deal with that shouldn't be there.
Can you imagine when some of these goons hit the workplace? Their poor fragile little minds will implode
Can you imagine when some of these goons hit the workplace? Their poor fragile little minds will implode
We'll make a feminist out of you yet.
To the extent that feminism means securing equality for women, I already consider myself a feminist. Id like to see more women in politics, Id like to see cabinets with a roughly even split between the sexes. Id have liked to see a woman president in the US. Id like to see women paid the same as men (which I think will require men being encouraged to take half of "maternity" leave.)
But these days I see more anti man sentiment among some feminists, so that is where the movement loses me.
I broadly agree except for the maternity issue. The bond between mother and child is qualitatively unique, it is fundamental psychology. I think most mothers want to spend those important and irreplaceable times with their child and that is why you see little movement in the maternity leave figures despite best efforts to change the culture.
Perhaps, in which case I think the price for that will be theyll never close the gap entirely on pay / opportunities at work. The only way to eradicate it completely is make it so that businesses are just as likely to see men taking extended leave as women. Unless they take the positive discrimination route.
Yeah same. I feel really bad for people who will genuinely have an unpleasant experience from something as innocuous as clapping or the mere mention of a word that relates to some sort of traumatic experience. A lecture or a comedy club or whatever probably isn't the best place for someone like that until they've sought psychiatric help to overcome it.
Here's the original tweet, as I've just got a PM reminding me that the WT is apparently the American version of the Daily Mail, so shouldn't be taken seriously.
But isn't that just the bone-headed way of doing things in many institutions - particularly in regard to punishment for indiscipline - and therefore not exclusive to this subject? You know how it goes: one person throws a paper plane in class and doesn't own up = everyone gets detention; one soldier breaks the rules = every soldier has to scrub the barracks. It's idiotic, and typical of the stale thinking which results from dull & misguided leadership.
But it does "strip the historical, indigenous, or religious significance". The fact that people don't intent it to be insulting or whatever doesn't meant that it isn't harmful by reducing people race, religion, colour or whatever to a party joke.
Isn't dressing up just making fun of that stereotype then? Blackface isn't funny so surely neither is a sombrero wearing "Mexican".
It doesn't have to be done with the intent to hurt, hidden or otherwise. If the people who are being stereotyped don't like it then surely this is more than good enough a reason not to do it?
Pretty much I'd say. Fancy dress is lame at the best of times but I'm sure there are enough superheros and cartoon characters to go around if absolutely necessary.
Yeah, I'm not keen on our home kit either, chief.
Just say no
Kind of? I don't think its the norm in universities though. Individuals who break rules (cheating in exams, selling drugs on campus etc) are punished as individuals. Would be uproar if the authorities behaved any differently.
That's only because people who are presumed to be intelligent get treated differently to those deemed cannon/factory fodder.
I guess so. Although I'm not aware of the "punish one, punish all" approach being used in factories either?
You're right, I think, chief.
@SteveJ I do that to the kids - punish both of them unless one of them admits to having done something. Is this unenlightened of me?
Yes - I demand that you are shot at dawn. Please set your alarm.
WTF? Im not setting my alarm, you want to shoot me, you set YOUR alarm and come and bloody shoot me. Lazy bastard.
Right! Executions for everyone! Don't say I didn't warn you!
Why did you think those links made your case any stronger? To quote from your link..
Further reading of your link shows that because Sommers had previously taken issue with the idea of rape culture, students had decided that her lecture on feminism at Georgetown (which we should remembered had not actually happened at this point) was going to cause trauma to sexual assault survivors.
So basically a group of students decided that the opinions of a lecturer and intellectual were so negative that they would cause trauma to vulnerable people. Before that lecturer had been given the opportunity to even walk into the hall and open her mouth. What kind of message exactly do you think this kind of behavour encourages? Who decides exactly what should and shouldn't be labelled with a 'trigger warning' or require a support group safe space set up? Is there a process of appeal for people who are falsely accused of holding vile views and have their reputations damaged by these actions, or can we just find some form of privilege in there that makes it all ok?
There's a difference between avoiding other world views, as hobbers suggested, to students opening a safe space for victims of sexual assault. It might be worth pointing out Sommers is an active member of a right wing think tank and a lot of feminists perceive her as a rape apologist. So, as I said earlier, this is another case of a half-story being told. The "safe space" was literally run by 2 or 3 students for sexual abuse survivors who might need somewhere, well, safe, while the talk (and corresponding protests) were happening. What's the problem with that? Should those 2 or 3 students have stopped caring about sexual assault survivors? "Listen, ladies, I know this might be a tough day for you, but there's a few white men on Redcafe saying you need to toughen up, so get the feck on with it."
Besides, protests are part and parcel of student activism. Including protesting people the students didn't much care for. Why are they all of a sudden being fannies for doing what students have been doing for decades? Because they suddenly use vocabulary you're new to?
Why would you need a 'safe space' to go to while someone held a lecture you weren't attending? Are such spaces also required for times when there's something on TV that might trigger you despite you not watching it?
Yes
He did say "and corresponding protests" tbf.
Sexual assault survivor hotlines are available 24/7 and act as a safe space for people when they experience some emotional setback or need someone to talk to.
But the same group who felt the need to protest against someone saying things they didn't like, were also the ones then saying they needed a safe space.
So you mean there wasn't really any need for an additional one?
You're being ridiculously condescending considering what we're talking about here. Physical safe spaces and support groups for sexual assault survivors exist too.
Seriously dude, you need to get some fecking empathy.
Presumably these are different people protesting on behalf of the people who are too emotionally fragile to protest themselves. And I'm not using emotionally fragile in the pejorative sense.
No they weren't. Some protested, and 2 or 3, other - different people - opened a safe space for sexual assault survivors.
How many Mexicans are actually offended in the slightest by someone who isn't Mexican wearing a sombrero at Halloween though? There's no way of telling but I doubt it's very many of them.
That's not actually the point, and even if we did have a number, who's going to ascertain whether its enough?
If you want to dress as a Mexican there are dozens of famous Mexicans and other South American icons, celebrities, tv show characters, drug cartel members etc.
Why insist on wearing a caricature of an entire country of people?
Probably the most prominent campaign against cultural appropriation(/racism) is against the Redskins. And I can't help but side with the protestors on that one. Redskins is what native Americans were derogatorily called during the genocides and the team using the name and symbols they do does kind of take the piss.
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If I wanted to dress as a Mexican, why on earth would I choose to dress as a non-Mexican, South American icon? Because all South Americans are the same?
Im not being serious by the way, I get the point you are making. Having said that, Im sure there would be people who would be offended by someone dressing up as a drug cartel member, which could be perceived as another form of racial stereotype - and perhaps a more negative one than a guy in a sombrero.
I understand that but if you were to dress up as say Pablo Escobar, you wouldn't be mimicking the entire country and culture of Colombia, you'd actually be dressing up as a famous historical figure. I think people would find more issue with the glorification of Escobar considering the crimes he committed, than taking offence.
I guess the other issue here is that going to a fancy dress party as as a stereotype of an entire country is arguably a little crass but you'd also risk being accused of cultural appropriation if you had a party where you served chilli and margharitas and people wore sombreros. Really struggling to see the offence in that scenario. I mean, every city in the world has Irish bars. Should that bother me?
What is so insulting about a caricature of a country though? I would have thought that going as a cartel member would be a lot more insulting.
@Silva
In what way do you see the safe spaces you describe as being analogous to AA?