Dele Alli is England's best young midfielder playing in Turkey

[BlueCelery]

He's a second striker not a midfielder. He's barely involved in the build-up ffs. He only averages 33 passes a game, those are pedestrian numbers for someone being called a #10 or even a #8.

These Lampard, Gerrard & Scholes comparisons are beyond egregious. He's a slightly more tolerable version of Thomas Muller at best.

EDIT: Sidenote. Alli is one of those players made to look better than he is because of the system he's playing in. The same thing is happening with Liverpool players since Klopp's arrival.

 

[dbs235]

Ali showing as much potential as Pogba is really not true at all. Anyone who understands the midfield position can surely see that?
Pogba has dominated midfields his entire career at every club and team he has played at. Ali has scored a lot of goals (some very spectacular ones too) but that's not showing more potential. He was never really one of the more talented players in the England youth teams either. Loftus-Cheek and the like played better than him at youth level. Ali has taken his chance and scored a lot of goals in a team that works their asses off to open up space for him. He's a very good young player who belongs in the top half (possibly top 4) of the PL, but no more than that. If you put lots of legwork and quality around him he will continue to lok fantastic, but Dembele and Erikson are both better than him in most ways.

You've missed the point, it was that Alli has done as much as Pogba had at the age of 19. Not that Pogba has done more in his overall career, given he's three years older. Alli also plays much further forward than Pogba so he's never going to "dominate" midfields as Pogba does, some people have even been questioning if he's even a midfielder after the Chelsea game.

 

[hellohello]

He's a second striker not a midfielder. He's barely involved in the build-up ffs. He only averages 33 passes a game, those are pedestrian numbers for someone being called a #10 or even a #8.

These Lampard, Gerrard & Scholes comparisons are beyond egregious. He's a slightly more tolerable version of Thomas Muller at best.

EDIT: Sidenote. Alli is one of those players made to look better than he is because of the system he's playing in. The same thing is happening with Liverpool players since Klopp's arrival.

He has only played this far forward the last few games. Last season he sometimes played in a 2 in front of the defense, but mostly as a 3 in a 4-2-3-1. He often drops back and is involved in the buildup, his pressing is great as is his work-rate. He wasn't brought in as a second striker, nor did Tottenham play with two strikers last season.

Oh, and didn't Scholes start his career as a 10? Playing behind the striker?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He plays so much like Thomas Mueller its uncanny. Just observe his movement on pitch.

 

[POF]

Dele Alli is a fantastic young player. His game intelligence for such a young player is very impressive. His aggression reminds me of Gerrard. Pogba is on a completely different level ability-wise.

When you look at the performance levels of Kane, Alli, Eriksson, Walker, Rose, Dembele, Lamela, etc it is a huge compliment to Pochettino as a coach. The job he has done at Spurs is incredible. If you put any of those players in another side I don't think they would stand out but at Spurs they look top class players.

Spurs are a genuine title contender. I don't think they will win it but this is the best Spurs side I have seen by a long way. It's also the strongest top 6 the EPL has ever had and the gap to 7th is huge.

 

[hellohello]

Dele Alli is a fantastic young player. His game intelligence for such a young player is very impressive. His aggression reminds me of Gerrard. Pogba is on a completely different level ability-wise.

When you look at the performance levels of Kane, Alli, Eriksson, Walker, Rose, Dembele, Lamela, etc it is a huge compliment to Pochettino as a coach. The job he has done at Spurs is incredible. If you put any of those players in another side I don't think they would stand out but at Spurs they look top class players.

Spurs are a genuine title contender. I don't think they will win it but this is the best Spurs side I have seen by a long way. It's also the strongest top 6 the EPL has ever had and the gap to 7th is huge.

Going to be interesting to see what Pochettino, and indeed Mourinho does about the EL. The curse of the top 6 atm is that any game that isn't in the PL is a possible distraction or disruption. Kinda sucks.

 

[POF]

Going to be interesting to see what Pochettino, and indeed Mourinho does about the EL. The curse of the top 6 atm is that any game that isn't in the PL is a possible distraction or disruption. Kinda sucks.

I do think it will stretch both squads. United probably has a bigger squad but both teams have players that are so vital to the way they play that key injuries could make a huge difference to the season.

It will be interesting to see if the top teams drop more points when the European games start again. The standard just now is very high.

 

[Norris]

Of course he would. The guy is absolute class.

Without doubt we should be after him, but it's just not going to happen.

Where exactly would he play ?

Keep up the trolling

Yes, because stating a different opinion is considered trolling now

 

[SirHenryPercy]

He's a second striker not a midfielder. He's barely involved in the build-up ffs. He only averages 33 passes a game, those are pedestrian numbers for someone being called a #10 or even a #8.

These Lampard, Gerrard & Scholes comparisons are beyond egregious. He's a slightly more tolerable version of Thomas Muller at best.

EDIT: Sidenote. Alli is one of those players made to look better than he is because of the system he's playing in. The same thing is happening with Liverpool players since Klopp's arrival.

Players are made to look better than they are because of the system that they are playing in? I've heard of players suffering because they are playing in teams where they are being used out of position or don't get enough support, perhaps exposed etc but to actually look better than their actual ability is an amazing feat of management.

As for Alli, he's looked good in lots of different set-ups and positions and alongside different players, he just happens to be a very good footballer.

 

[RedChip]

Indeed.

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...uels_won_%/interceptions/blocks/clearances#90

Well, since Pogba is 'not miles better' in those stats, they clearly don't matter. Or something...

 

[Sweech]

Going to be interesting to see what Pochettino, and indeed Mourinho does about the EL. The curse of the top 6 atm is that any game that isn't in the PL is a possible distraction or disruption. Kinda sucks.

I expect Poch to just gun for the league. If we get easy draws into the semis of the EL then maybe he'll start using the best XI. Otherwise I'd expect he'd do exactly what he's done every year so far and play a heavily rotated side with only 2 or 3 players from our best XI in it.

 

[m1y2]

Hmm, I wonder where United are in the table ... and where they were last season .

Idk maybe somebody should tell you that you are having the best years in your recent history and we are having our worst being in the transition but things are getting normal soon. Everyone knows that United will finish above Spurs this year and beyond, no matter how the situation is now and we are only few points behind .-)

 

[Slevs]

Hmm, I wonder where United are in the table ... and where they were last season .

Well, it'll be no surprise where you'll be every season, below Arsenal.

At least gloat about the good football you play, or the talented players you have, talking about your league position will only end in disaster.

Last season was your best chance to win the league. Arsenal's weak mentality, LvG's stubborness, Chelsea's breakdown.

Everything was set in line for Spurs to win, and you let an almost relegated team from the season before (that did over-achieve) make you look like fools and win the league. Hell, you even had your annual mental collapse and still finished below Arsenal on the final game of the season.

 

[kouroux]

Dele Alli is a fantastic young player. His game intelligence for such a young player is very impressive. His aggression reminds me of Gerrard. Pogba is on a completely different level ability-wise.

When you look at the performance levels of Kane, Alli, Eriksson, Walker, Rose, Dembele, Lamela, etc it is a huge compliment to Pochettino as a coach. The job he has done at Spurs is incredible. If you put any of those players in another side I don't think they would stand out but at Spurs they look top class players.

Spurs are a genuine title contender. I don't think they will win it but this is the best Spurs side I have seen by a long way. It's also the strongest top 6 the EPL has ever had and the gap to 7th is huge.

Good post. Pochettino is doing a great job. Alli is a good player, who scores consistently, which is the most important thing in football. He isn't an exciting player to watch, he isn't the type that fans get excited watching.

 

[Art]

Pogba would walk into any starting xi in the world. Doubt Alli would. Still doesn't take away from the fact that Alli is a very good player.

 

[balaks]

Good post. Pochettino is doing a great job. Alli is a good player, who scores consistently, which is the most important thing in football. He isn't an exciting player to watch, he isn't the type that fans get excited watching.

I think he is a very exciting player to watch tbh, some of his play is inspired. His pass yesterday for example, haven't seen a player play a pass like that for ages. Some of his movement and goals are fabulous.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

I really want to see him play for either one of the Spanish giants. Imagine the space he'll get with the attention focused on your Bales and Neymars.

 

[GlastonSpur]

So basically when we compare all the stats, we should look at more seasons but when we compare only goals, this season is all we need to look at. It is amazing how you get away with being an absolute WUM on thia forum.

It doesn't matter whether you look at this season so far only, or include last season also, the result is the same: Alli has scored more goals than Pogba.

 

[Utdstar01]

I think he is a very exciting player to watch tbh, some of his play is inspired. His pass yesterday for example, haven't seen a player play a pass like that for ages. Some of his movement and goals are fabulous.

Really? I've seen 2/3 this season. Pogba has played 1/2.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Idk maybe somebody should tell you that you are having the best years in your recent history and we are having our worst being in the transition but things are getting normal soon. Everyone knows that United will finish above Spurs this year and beyond, no matter how the situation is now and we are only few points behind .-)

In that case, all these "everyone" should inform the bookies, who appear not to know about this vast mass of punters.

 

[Manchester Dan]

Should have known when I clicked on this that it would have become. Pogba v Alli free for all. It's impossible to talk about that in a black and white manner because Alli is so inexperienced. As was Pogba at the same age, but Pogba has continued to show his ability consistently since then. Alli needs to do the same before that's a fair discussion to have. Comparing promising young players is near impossible.

Kane is a classic example, I remember after his 14/15 breakthrough United being linked with him for £50m and their being mixed feelings on here that he'd only had one good year. He backed that up with another and he's doing it again now and the discussion is very different. Despite his performances and scoring remaining very similar consistency is key, and that's what separates the good from the top bracket.

If Alli spends the next couple of years improving and remains a similar feature in the Spurs side, showing he can adapt as the team changes and matures, then he's got the potential to become one of the best. As it stands he's got all of that to do.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Gaston is doing the equivalent of a United fan going to a spurs board and saying that Mata is better than Dembele.

And everyone is still giving him time and actually entertaining him.

Except I haven't said that Alli is better than Pogba. Your claim is the usual wilful travesty of the actual truth when it comes to what I've said about Spurs players.

In essence I've merely made (and subsequently had to defend) two simple claims, namely that:

1) Alli at the age of 19 showed at least as much potential as did Pogba at the same age;
2) Even excluding goals scored, the stats don't show that Pogba is better than Alli in all aspects of the game.

These two things have been enough for some United fans to get their knickers in a twist, such is the precious attitude they have taken towards Pogba.

 

[m1y2]

In that case, all these "everyone" should inform the bookies, who appear not to know about this vast mass of punters.

who the hell cares about bookies? they backed hillary never expected leicester to win the league etc.. don't be stupid:-)

 

[Dobbs]

@GlastonSpur gets silly amounts of stick.

 

[Kraftwerker]

Was Pogba at 19 voted by his fellow professionals the best young player in probably the world's most competitive league? Did he score 11 goals and make 10 assists? The answer to both question is no.

Whilst Alli was winning best young player in the PL, Pogba was winning best young player in Europe.

And whilst Alli has featured in the best Premier League XI, Pogba has featured in the best World XI.

You're comparing Apples with boulders.

You've lost the statistical argument, and you'll lose the individual awards argument too. And that's ignoring all the medals Pogba has picked up.

Having lost these arguments it's cringeworthy watching you change tack to talk about abstract immeasurable concepts like desire and winning mentality.

In Pogba, you're talking about a player who said no to SAF, because he believed he should be starting for a major European football superpower, and fancied his chances in a midfield that would contain the likes of Pirlo, Marchisio, Vidal, Khedira, and at times outshine all of them.

If Alli has half the desire and winning mentality of Pogba he'll go very far. His first move will be to get himself to a club that actually wins stuff regularly though, so it's a double edged sword for you.

 

[GlastonSpur]

who the hell cares about bookies? they backed hillary never expected leicester to win the league etc.. don't be stupid:-)

To some extent bookies' odds reflect how many of their punters bet on a particular outcome - they cut the odds on outcome X if lots of punters bet that outcome X will happen.

Currently the odds on Spurs finishing in the top 4 are shorter than those for United, which means, to put it mildly, that not "everyone" (as claimed) thinks United will finish in a higher league position.

 

[balaks]

Really? I've seen 2/3 this season. Pogba has played 1/2.

A scooped pass? Fair enough - I hadn't seen that if true.

 

[Kag]

@GlastonSpur gets silly amounts of stick.

Because his arguments are usually fecking rubbish.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Whilst Alli was winning best young player in the PL, Pogba was winning best young player in Europe.

And whilst Alli has featured in the best Premier League XI, Pogba has featured in the best World XI.

You're comparing Apples with boulders.

You've lost the statistical argument, and you'll lose the individual awards argument too. And that's ignoring all the medals Pogba has picked up.

Having lost these arguments it's cringeworthy watching you change tack to talk about abstract immeasurable concepts like desire and winning mentality.

In Pogba, you're talking about a player who said no to SAF, because he believed he should be starting for a major European football superpower, and fancied his chances in a midfield that would contain the likes of Pirlo, Marchisio, Vidal, Khedira, and at times outshine all of them.

If Alli has half the desire and winning mentality of Pogba he'll go very far. His first move will be to get himself to a club that actually wins stuff regularly though, so it's a double edged sword for you.

I haven't. As I've already said, the stats for last season don't support the silly claim made that Pogba is better than Alli in all aspects of the game bar goals scored.

Last season: even allowing for the fact that Pogba was playing in a weaker league and played 22% more minutes Alli, the latter's stats are better for:

* Goals scored
* Defence score.
* Key passes
* Chances created
* Tackles won
* Interceptions
* Clearances
* Possession score
* Blocks

As for the rest, Pogba is three years older than Alli and has mainly played for a dominant team in an inferior league ... all quite apart from the fact that medals won are a team achievement.

 

[thegregster]

I haven't. As I've already said, the stats for last season don't support the silly claim made that Pogba is better than Alli in all aspects of the game bar goals scored.

Last season: even allowing for the fact that Pogba was playing in a weaker league and played 22% more minutes Alli, the latter's stats are better for:

* Goals scored
* Defence score.
* Key passes
* Chances created
* Tackles won
* Interceptions
* Clearances
* Possession score
* Blocks

As for the rest, Pogba is three years older than Alli and has mainly played for a dominant team in an inferior league ... all quite apart from the fact that medals won are a team achievement.

It's about the same. In fact over the last three seasons the Italian teams have done better in Europe.
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2017.html

Also Juventus are miles ahead of any English team by ranking.
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2017.html

 

[kouroux]

I think he is a very exciting player to watch tbh, some of his play is inspired. His pass yesterday for example, haven't seen a player play a pass like that for ages. Some of his movement and goals are fabulous.

I suppose it is a question of POV but when I look at his play, it doesn't move me at all.

 

[NK86]

It doesn't matter whether you look at this season so far only, or include last season also, the result is the same: Alli has scored more goals than Pogba.

And Martial has scored more than Alli. So that makes Martial a better talent. Not to mention you laughing at the statement of Mata and Mkhi being way ahead of Alli when their numbers blow Alli out of the water. So admit which argument you want to put forth and then stick to it instead of acting like a WUM on here.

 

[NK86]

Whilst Alli was winning best young player in the PL, Pogba was winning best young player in Europe.

And whilst Alli has featured in the best Premier League XI, Pogba has featured in the best World XI.

You're comparing Apples with boulders.

You've lost the statistical argument, and you'll lose the individual awards argument too. And that's ignoring all the medals Pogba has picked up.

Having lost these arguments it's cringeworthy watching you change tack to talk about abstract immeasurable concepts like desire and winning mentality.

In Pogba, you're talking about a player who said no to SAF, because he believed he should be starting for a major European football superpower, and fancied his chances in a midfield that would contain the likes of Pirlo, Marchisio, Vidal, Khedira, and at times outshine all of them.

If Alli has half the desire and winning mentality of Pogba he'll go very far. His first move will be to get himself to a club that actually wins stuff regularly though, so it's a double edged sword for you.

Well put. The number of times Glaston changes the metrics with which to compare two players is bizarre to put it mildly.

 

[Dobbs]

Because his arguments are usually fecking rubbish.

At this stage I don't think it matters what he says.

Just a bunch of United fans stomping their feet because a Spurs fan rates his own. It's OK to think he's wrong on Alli vs Pogba but still agree with some of his points.

 

[Kraftwerker]

I haven't. As I've already said, the stats for last season don't support the silly claim made that Pogba is better than Alli in all aspects of the game bar goals scored.

Last season: even allowing for the fact that Pogba was playing in a weaker league and played 22% more minutes Alli, the latter's stats are better for:

* Goals scored
* Defence score.
* Key passes
* Chances created
* Tackles won
* Interceptions
* Clearances
* Possession score
* Blocks

As for the rest, Pogba is three years older than Alli and has mainly played for a dominant team in an inferior league ... all quite apart from the fact that medals won are a team achievement.

We're comparing like for like here, in the same league.

Right now Pogba has Alli beat hands down across 95% of measures.

You're straying from the arguments you're uncomfortable with too, namely that Pogba picked up a best young player in Europe award and has featured in the World XI in 2015, and missed out by the narrowest margins in 2016.

Why do peer ratings only matter for Alli yet you completely ignore the much more prestigious world wide recognition Pogba has received?

Juventus are light-years ahead of Spurs as a club. The fact Pogba held his own in their midfield (which was widely regarded as the best in European football) only adds to his aura, rather than taking away from it. The PL has not had a midfield close to that Juve midfield in a decade.

 

[NK86]

At this stage I don't think it matters what he says.

Just a bunch of United fans stomping their feet because a Spurs fan rates his own. It's OK to think he's wrong on Alli vs Pogba but still agree with some of his points.

With which point should we agree? His "Lol" when we say Mata and Mkhi are both way agead of Alli at this stage? Or that he would not displace either at United currently and Glaston laughing at that as well as if we are talking about Messi here and not some youngster at Spurs who is yet to prove everything.

 

[GlastonSpur]

And Martial has scored more than Alli. So that makes Martial a better talent. Not to mention you laughing at the statement of Mata and Mkhi being way ahead of Alli when their numbers blow Alli out of the water. So admit which argument you want to put forth and then stick to it instead of acting like a WUM on here.

Only if you include cup competitions, where the opposition, home or away draw, and the number of rounds, all depend a lot on the luck of the draw.

In the league, where every teams plays every other team home and away, Alli has scored 20 Prem goals compared to Martial's 13.

PS. The numbers for Mata and Mkhi in the last 1.5 seasons (which is how long Alli has been playing in a top flight league) do not blow Alli out of the water.

 

[diarm]

You've missed the point, it was that Alli has done as much as Pogba had at the age of 19. Not that Pogba has done more in his overall career, given he's three years older. Alli also plays much further forward than Pogba so he's never going to "dominate" midfields as Pogba does, some people have even been questioning if he's even a midfielder after the Chelsea game.

??? I'm a fan of Alli but this is very confusing? Are you suggesting Pogba hasn't achieved more than Alli in his 3 extra years?

4 league titles, 2 cups, Champions League final, Euro 2016 final, U20 World Cup, UEFA Team of the Year, FifPro World XI, Golden Boy.

Vs

League One Runner Up and PFA Team of the Year

 

[VorZakone]

We're comparing like for like here, in the same league.

Right now Pogba has Alli beat hands down across 95% of measures.

You're straying from the arguments you're uncomfortable with too, namely that Pogba picked up a best young player in Europe award and has featured in the World XI in 2015, and missed out by the narrowest margins in 2016.

Why do peer ratings only matter for Alli yet you completely ignore the much more prestigious world wide recognition Pogba has received?

Juventus are light-years ahead of Spurs as a club. The fact Pogba held his own in their midfield (which was widely regarded as the best in European football) only adds to his aura, rather than taking away from it. The PL has not had a midfield close to that Juve midfield in a decade.

That Juve midfield is overrated. Pogba-Marchisio-Vidal-Pirlo was never regarded as the best in Europe. One of the best? Absolutely, but not the best. They got blown away by Bayern in 12/13, got knocked out by Galatasary in 13/14, then had a very good run in 14/15 but were eventually not good enough to beat Barca.

 

[GlastonSpur]

We're comparing like for like here, in the same league.

Right now Pogba has Alli beat hands down across 95% of measures.

You're straying from the arguments you're uncomfortable with too, namely that Pogba picked up a best young player in Europe award and has featured in the World XI in 2015, and missed out by the narrowest margins in 2016.

Why do peer ratings only matter for Alli yet you completely ignore the much more prestigious world wide recognition Pogba has received?

Juventus are light-years ahead of Spurs as a club. The fact Pogba held his own in their midfield (which was widely regarded as the best in European football) only adds to his aura, rather than taking away from it. The PL has not had a midfield close to that Juve midfield in a decade.

I see. You don't like the stats for last season, which is was Alli's first and only complete season so far in the top flight, so you want to limit your stats claim just to this season so far. How convenient ... yet I'm the one straying from arguments I'm uncomfortable with?

As for peer ratings, Alli's award was actually voted by his peers (fellow professionals). Pogba's Golden Boy award wasn't.