Question Time & This Week

Mciahel Goodman said:
Quite simply, it was those who have been left behind choosing to vote against the status quo in order to say "feck you" and have their voices heard. Same exact reason Trump was elected.
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And the irony is *drumroll* that's exactly how the establishment wanted us to vote. It's patently obvious.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
London is a country unto itself. The divide has grown exponentially for decades. The north is lagging behind economically, and it's a cause of enormous resentment. So, when London votes to remain in the EU, the north, and other similarly disenfranchised regions, vote to leave. It had little to do with logic, less to do with Europe, and immigration was only ever a proxy.

Quite simply, it was those who have been left behind choosing to vote against the status quo in order to say "feck you" and have their voices heard. Same exact reason Trump was elected. Depressed regions kicking the establishment in the balls (the coastal establishment of America, the London-centrism of Britain).
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I'm not sure tbh. I'm from East Yorkshire, lived in London for the last 16 years. Spoke to my mother earlier tonight and she was banging on about immigration.
Yes, the rest of the UK hates London-centrism, but the immigration thing is bigger than people admit. E Yorks is mega white and despite my family all loving my brown wife, they fear 'there are too many of them'. I'm not sure I buy into the fact that the masses are disaffected by trickle down economics. Maybe, but immigrants are viewed as the stumbling block.
 
Emily is right about NHS Direct. I thought I had a cracked rib (only bruised it turned out), but cos their website classed it as chest pain, it said call 999 immediately. Blunt tool.
 
Jippy said:
I'm not sure tbh. I'm from East Yorkshire, lived in London for the last 16 years. Spoke to my mother earlier tonight and she was banging on about immigration.
Yes, the rest of the UK hates London-centrism, but the immigration thing is bigger than people admit. E Yorks is mega white and despite my family all loving my brown wife, they fear 'there are too many of them'. I'm not sure I buy into the fact that the masses are disaffected by trickle down economics. Maybe, but immigrants are viewed as the stumbling block.
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Don't get me wrong, immigration is a massive issue. The thing is, it's only a massive issue due to perceived economic injustice. There's a reason xenophobia is more explicit in economically depressed regions, and it's not primarily a cultural issue. It's almost entirely an economic problem. Immigrants only ever serve as a rallying call for the far right offering a social panacea when a state has already failed its working-, and its lower-middle classes.
 
Jippy said:
I'm not sure tbh. I'm from East Yorkshire, lived in London for the last 16 years. Spoke to my mother earlier tonight and she was banging on about immigration.
Yes, the rest of the UK hates London-centrism, but the immigration thing is bigger than people admit. E Yorks is mega white and despite my family all loving my brown wife, they fear 'there are too many of them'. I'm not sure I buy into the fact that the masses are disaffected by trickle down economics. Maybe, but immigrants are viewed as the stumbling block.
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This often seems to be quite a big thing. People don't necessarily hate foreigners. In fact, on an individual basis, they quite like them. But they like when those foreigners are extra members of their own community for the most part...the dislike and fear, so to speak, seems to become more prevalent when they believe that it's swathes of foreigners who are coming in, or when they hear (often exaggerated) stories of groups of immigrants banded together, seemingly spreading a different culture to what they believe in.

I remember reading something which spoke about a similar phenomenon in the US. A lot of rural, more conservative leaning types didn't dislike black people within their own community, and got on well with them...but they dislike the inner city 'types', the people they perceived as being different to them.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Don't get me wrong, immigration is a massive issue. The thing is, it's only a massive issue due to perceived economic injustice. There's a reason xenophobia is more explicit in economically depressed regions, and it's not primarily a cultural issue. It's almost entirely an economical problem. Immigrants only ever serve as a rallying call for the far right offering a social panacea when a state has already failed its working-, and lower-middle classes.
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Yep the far right will harp on about us wasting money on aid when good white people are struggling. There is defo a jealousy factor when hard-working entrepreneurial foreigners do well.
God this guy 'you people'.
 
Giving aid to countries with space programs is stupid. No debate to be had there.

I'd love to see a measure on the real-world positive impact of foreign aid but I doubt one exists.
 
Cheesy said:
This often seems to be quite a big thing. People don't necessarily hate foreigners. In fact, on an individual basis, they quite like them. But they like when those foreigners are extra members of their own community for the most part...the dislike and fear, so to speak, seems to become more prevalent when they believe that it's swathes of foreigners who are coming in, or when they hear (often exaggerated) stories of groups of immigrants banded together, seemingly spreading a different culture to what they believe in.

I remember reading something which spoke about a similar phenomenon in the US. A lot of rural, more conservative leaning types didn't dislike black people within their own community, and got on well with them...but they dislike the inner city 'types', the people they perceived as being different to them.
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It's odd, but underlines the irrationality of racism I guess. I'm biased but my wife is highly educated, professionally qualified and earns more than anyone ever in my family, as she works in hedge funds.
She's one of the 'good ones', not some benefit sponging 10-kid Somalian waster. Or so the DM et al will spin it.
 
Jippy said:
DD cutting her off again. Emily seems decent and genuine tbf (speaking as a non-Lab voter).
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I keep meaning to do a simple tick list comparison of how often DD interrupts, disparages, or gives a little throwaway to Labour panellists compared to the others.

I'm happy to be proved wrong, but the constant refrain that 'the BBC is left-wing' seems a bit bollocks to me.

ps, I had a good experience with NHS direct too, they gave me the nerve to go to casualty when I might not if I hadn't rung them.
 
hobbers said:
Giving aid to countries with space programs is stupid. No debate to be had there.

I'd love to see a measure on the real-world positive impact of foreign aid but I doubt one exists.
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That was my argument re India. My wife donates to some rural education charities there cos their government doesn't. Should the children suffer cos of a profligate, nationalistic government? Tough one, but I've ceased the debate for the sake of domestic harmony.
 
Cheesy said:
This often seems to be quite a big thing. People don't necessarily hate foreigners. In fact, on an individual basis, they quite like them. But they like when those foreigners are extra members of their own community for the most part...the dislike and fear, so to speak, seems to become more prevalent when they believe that it's swathes of foreigners who are coming in, or when they hear (often exaggerated) stories of groups of immigrants banded together, seemingly spreading a different culture to what they believe in.
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It's the same story retold. The Jews, the Italians in America, the Irish, the Mexicans, and now the Muslims (a incredibly weird catchall term). Immigrants arrive, struggle, band together in order to survive (creating insular support groups), which in turn leads to the perception that immigrants have no desire to assimilate. The reason, quite often, for lack of assimilation, is in fact the impossibility of assimilation into a society already incredibly hostile to immigrants. When the economy is bad, social relations between groups deteriorates, and scapegoating increases.

It's an issue of fear (some concept of "us" versus a mysterious "them" who refuse to take part, ignoring the fact that our society is often organised in such a way as to discourage their participation). Are there immigrants who have no interest in assimilation? Yes. Are there countless more who wish to integrate but face rejection? Yes.
 
712 said:
I keep meaning to do a simple tick list comparison of how often DD interrupts, disparages, or gives a little throwaway to Labour panellists compared to the others.

I'm happy to be proved wrong, but the constant refrain that 'the BBC is left-wing' seems a bit bollocks to me.

ps, I had a good experience with NHS direct too, they gave me the nerve to go to casualty when I might not if I hadn't rung them.
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I'd say DD cut her off cos she ignored the questions to get her own points off. I still like her though. She's one to watch.
I was slagging NHS Direct tbf. I went to the Soho drop-in centre in the end- didn't need A&E. I got seen in about 10 mins. I may have got lucky with timings, but the whole service was excellent.
 
Jippy said:
It's odd, but underlines the irrationality of racism I guess. I'm biased but my wife is highly educated, professionally qualified and earns more than anyone ever in my family, as she works in hedge funds.
She's one of the 'good ones', not some benefit sponging 10-kid Somalian waster. Or so the DM et al will spin it.
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And funnily enough, a lot of people who come to the UK from the EU fall under this category as well. It's maybe not quite been the case just as much since a lot of the poorer Eastern states got accepted into it but on the whole, people coming from the EU are generally moving over here to work.
 
Jippy said:
That was my argument re India. My wife donates to some rural education charities there cos their government doesn't. Should the children suffer cos of a profligate, nationalistic government? Tough one, but I've ceased the debate for the sake of domestic harmony.
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Exactly. And having a space program doesn't mean you don't have people in deep poverty.
 
Cheesy said:
And funnily enough, a lot of people who come to the UK from the EU fall under this category as well. It's maybe not quite been the case just as much since a lot of the poorer Eastern states got accepted into it but on the whole, people coming from the EU are generally moving over here to work.
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We'll have no service staff in London if the Eastern Europeans are kicked out, put bluntly.

I was only the second in my family after my brother to go to uni. Did a masters after and having grown up in a mega-white East Yorkshire hamlet, I was suddenly living with Americans, Koreans, Argies etc...I loved it. Had a Taiwanese girlfriend and the whole thing was such an eye-opener. Whole experience completely changed and matured me and nurtured a love of travel.
 
Tomorrow's Mail front page, no doubt: 'India sends scroungers into space - and YOU'RE paying for it!'
 
Jippy said:
We'll have no service staff in London if the Eastern Europeans are kicked out, put bluntly.

I was only the second in my family after my brother to go to uni. Did a masters after and having grown up in a mega-white East Yorkshire hamlet, I was suddenly living with Americans, Koreans, Argies etc...I loved it. Had a Taiwanese girlfriend and the whole thing was such an eye-opener. Whole experience completely changed and matured me and nurtured a love of travel.
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Yeah, like you I grew up in a mostly white area and only knew a few immigrants in school who I all got on well with, and that's not changed since then. Suppose part of the problem is that while the likes of me and you have had positive experiences (as uni-going types tend to do), there are people who seem to have reacted a lot less positively to the whole thing.
 
Cheesy said:
Yeah, like you I grew up in a mostly white area and only knew a few immigrants in school who I all got on well with, and that's not changed since then. Suppose part of the problem is that while the likes of me and you have had positive experiences (as uni-going types tend to do), there are people who seem to have reacted a lot less positively to the whole thing.
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I can't knock my peers back home on many levels. Like you said, get to know people individually and realise they are just like you and it breaks down barriers. Not sure some people have the opportunity.

:lol:Portillo trolling the SNP guy.
 
You'd be shocked at what they're discussing this week.
 
Cheesy said:
You'd be shocked at what they're discussing this week.
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Climate change? Latest stats are very alarming, presumably they're keen to discuss the implications.
 
Diane Abbott getting a bit Blairite!
 
Robertson is humourless but he's making plenty of good points.
 
hobbers said:
Giving aid to countries with space programs is stupid. No debate to be had there.

I'd love to see a measure on the real-world positive impact of foreign aid but I doubt one exists.
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I always assumed aid to India was a bung to help ease trade deals. There must be a reason why all governments protect foreign aid, including hard right conservatives that wouldn't normally piss on a brown person if they were on fire.
 
Is Dimbleby gonna let her speak forever on everyone else's turn?
 
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