David Moyes | West Ham in talks with him for managerial job
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Have they been relegated in the last 5 years though? They might be shit, but they have always, somehow, had a manager who has been able to get them over the line. Moyes has failed in that task, when he was expected to guide them safely to a lower mid-table position.
He took the Champions of England to 7th.
The manager who took over from him in Spain now has them on the brink of a Europa League place.
I am simply amazed how people still staunchly defend a man to whom you owe absolutely nothing and is a stain and an embarrassment on United's history.
I repeat again, if he were the director of a company, a man who you had never heard of and in charge of a company which to which you had no emotional attachment, he would be lambasted in the press, and on here, for taking a multi-million pound salary.
Staunchly defend?
I only asked which club has he brought to their knees, as you said he had.
He's getting relegated with a club that's almost been relegated for years.
We finished 7th with him, which was crap but he didn't bring Manchester United to its knees. We've spent most of this season in 6th.
Clearly he's not done well but equally he hasn't destroyed clubs.
It's not about defending Moyes, it's about having some regard for the truth.
Surely he brought United to their knees? He had the chance to bring in reinforcements from a position of strength, with a team that still had the fear factor in its favour. Instead, he turned the clock back to 1986 in 9 months. He has been truly awful at Sunderland, even acknowledging that they are not great (but other sides down there are not exactly all-star XIs either and Moyes was given funds). More than that though, despite the best efforts of his many champions in the press to portray their mate as the "honest, hard-working manager" (unlike the character assassinations handed out to the like of Villas-Boas), there are many indications that he is not a very nice person.
We obviously have very different definition of what bringing a club to its knees means.
I mean 7th place is shit and I was fine with him getting the sack but he didn't destroy the club. There were no big mistakes with sales and the two signings are still heavily used today. Financially we have marched on as well.
There's a huge gap between not doing well and ruining a club.
I appreciate the thread I'm in and what comes with it, but to claim Moyes brought United to its knees and to put Sunderland fully on his shoulders is just bitterness.
I sort of agree but lets not let Dave completely off the hook either, you're right it would be harsh to blame Uniteds current predicament entirely on Moyes but he did largely set us on course to the position the club finds itself in today. Without his complete failure and lack of CL football i don't think there would have been so much panic buying and selling under Van Gaal (for a start LVG wouldn't have been hired). Which lead to an expensive yet average squad being assembled and the winning mentality Ferguson had built up being lost.
Agree with that and I have said he was shit. Huge leap from that to say he brought the club to its knees though.
LvG had time and shit loads of cash. He could easily have turned us around but was a nightmare in the transfer market. So I don't really agree there was some path Moyes set us on.
What would he have had to have done to meet your definition? Relegation? Even he couldn't manage that with United. Actually maybe he could, if only he had been given more time. Bankrupt the club? That's not in his hands.
He took the champions of the previous season to 7th. From being feared we were being turned over by low level teams even at home. It's actually hard to imagine how it could have gone any worse. So you could argue in relative terms he did bring the club to as low a point as is possible.
I agree with the gist of your post, but I think the quoted bit was inevitable. After Ferguson left, every club sensed blood in the water, even if a competent manager had been chosen, I feel that the invincible aura Ferguson cultivated would have dissipated.
So what would you say Mourinho did to Chelsea in his last season?
If he finishes 6th this year, just one up from Moyes, despite having a better group of players, how would you classify that?
I agree with @Dobbs in regards to his time at united. The club are just as to blame. Who thought it would be a good idea for both Fergie and gill to go at the same time? It should have been staggered.
As for Sunderland, they've been extremely lucky the last few seasons. The luck has run out, on top of an uninspiring manager
As for Sunderland, they've been extremely lucky the last few seasons. The luck has run out, on top of an uninspiring manager
Agree. We all said for years it will be a nightmare when Fergie leaves. Then when that nightmare played out everybody was surprised.
Again I'm not saying Moyes was the right choice but surely the struggles since, with two top class managers, tell us something.
Yeah agree. Everybody knew it was going to be really difficult when Fergie left so I expected the handover to be done perfectly. Instead we couldn't have botched it up any better. Fergie and Gill leaving same time, the squad being really unbalanced.
Maybe it's because Fergie made his decision sooner than expected. The death of his sister in law bringing his departure forward.
Well it's possible Van Gaal would have made the same mistakes had he taken over right after Ferguson. But i just feel the whole gutting of the squad came as a result of our performances under Moyes. A lot of those players were good players and in my opinion a lot of them were/are better than the ones Van Gaal replaced them with.
So while i also blame Van Gaal of course i think Moyes also played a significant part in our fall.
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Had we hired a top manager and a proven winner then it wasn't inevitable at all in my opinion. Someone like Mourinho could have came in added 3-4 key signings to strengthen the side (as he did this year) and kept things ticking over.
What we got was one manager who was afraid to sign players to strengthen the team allowing the squad to get a year older and another who sold almost the entire squad within 12 months of taking the job.
Well they had both decided to retire/leave privately at around the same time without telling each other according to Ferguson if i remember correctly. Gill staying on wouldn't have changed much though in my opinion. Moyes would have still been way out of his depth.
I find it hard to apportion some blame on Moyes for LvG's decisions to sell players. I don't think LvG was the type to let prior results shape his decisions. Prides himself on improving players etc.
Moyes didn't flog the talent, he signed Mata (probably the best transfer since RvP) and even Fellaini has been alright.
The wrong appointment, rightfully sacked, but he didn't unpick the fabric of the club guys.
I don't have as hard a time, without that season under Moyes i don't think United sell what was it 20-24 players in just over a year.
You are entitled to your opinion mate of course. I'm never likely to feel everything was Moyes fault, but i think he contributed massively to our current situation.
In a parallel universe, we would have appointed a properly qualified manager (rather than Fergie's family friend from Glasgow) who had the courage and the experience to invest heavily in the squad over summer 2013 to rectify the weaknesses Fergie left behind (and, yes, the squad he left had some glaring weaknesses) and, after some inevitable end of an era readjustment, pushed on to be competitive within a year or two. Instead we appointed some mid-table journeyman who, in the light of the wealth brought in by the new TV deals, is revealed to be more Championship level. So, while ultimately the people who appointed him are to blame, and neither Fergie nor, in particular, LVG are blameless, it was Moyes who took the sledgehammer to the United edifice. Within a few months of title number 20, we had a manager saying that "we would make it hard for Newcastle" at Old Trafford. So yes, I do blame this comedian for our fall off a cliff. And, by the way, his record at Sunderland is considerably worse than such managerial legends as Di Canio and Poyet. Like Mike Walker at Norwich or Joe Royle at Oldham, it all fell into place for Moyes at one club but he has proven to be useless elsewhere.
Good post and I agree with pretty much all of it.
He has a striker in the form of his life and almost guaranteed goals. Every bottom half team would kill for Defoe and Moyes is still being cautious as ever and throwing out the excuses and defeatist attitude.
Terrible manager and his constant failures have shown him to be pretty classless too.
Scotland or MLS next.
Terrible manager and his constant failures have shown him to be pretty classless too.
Scotland or MLS next.
For all the mitigation offered in Moyes' defence about the Sunderland squad and their owner, Moyes is now sat 10 points behind a Hull City side that didn't have enough senior players to fill the bench at the start of the season, started the season without a permanent manager, have had significant injury problems, sold their best player in January and have basically been sabotaged by their owner since the summer.
But then again, Hull did change their manager...
But then again, Hull did change their manager...
Omar Momani needs to be careful, there is a slap incoming
Not sure if it's mentioned here, but Leicester fans chanted "You're getting slapped in the morning" after the game.
Correct me if I'm wrong but hadn't it already been decided Gill would be leaving before Fergie told the club in December that he would be retiring at the end of the season due to his wife's sisters death?
It was unfortunate circumstances that lead to both leaving at the same time. I am confident the club never planned for both to leave in the same summer. But I think Gill had already had a job lined up which he could not go back on.
Moyes damaged this club massively. He deserves everything that comes his way. He had the fortune to take over a squad with a proven goalscorer in Defoe and all he needed to do was shore up his defence. His signings have been nothing short of shambolic.
Look what Silva is doing at Hull and what Shakespeare has done at Leicester.
Moyes is a fraud. He's done in the Premier League.
Just imagine if Moyes and Rooney are reunited again - in China! Wouldn't that be a match made in heaven?
I i remember correctly from his book, Ferguson only made the decision to retire in December but he didn't tell Gill or the club about his decision until around late February, early March. So it was pretty late in the day for either of them to change their plans.
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Look.
Either we had feck all of a contingency plan or we had a really shit one. David Gill and Fergie resigning at the same time was hardly the result of a genius plan, but there wasn't exactly much we could do about it. Gill had another job lined up and Fergie wanted to retire. There wasn't anything we could do to "stagger it", no blame lies with the club on that end. The issue was how we ended up in a situation where we reportedly went through a rather long list of managers before ending up with David Moyes. Basically, at Fergies age and with his contracts, did we not have a very clear idea on who to approach first as the ideal replacement, or was it a freak scenario where all our candidates had other jobs lined up already. Which again, would still indicate shit planning..
Fergie wants to distance himself from hiring Moyes, i thought it was pretty clear he had a decent say on who he liked given how Moyes was approached early on by Fergie himself.
Either way. None of this vindicates Moyes in any way...It's fine and dandy that the team required signings, but we still had a pretty good foundation which Moyes could build on. Very few / none expected us to be title challengers from day one under a new manager, but there's a big difference between title challengers and barely qualifying for the Europa League..Moyes was so out of his depth on so many levels it's difficult to understand why he was hired in the first place. He was shockingly bad.
Either we had feck all of a contingency plan or we had a really shit one. David Gill and Fergie resigning at the same time was hardly the result of a genius plan, but there wasn't exactly much we could do about it. Gill had another job lined up and Fergie wanted to retire. There wasn't anything we could do to "stagger it", no blame lies with the club on that end. The issue was how we ended up in a situation where we reportedly went through a rather long list of managers before ending up with David Moyes. Basically, at Fergies age and with his contracts, did we not have a very clear idea on who to approach first as the ideal replacement, or was it a freak scenario where all our candidates had other jobs lined up already. Which again, would still indicate shit planning..
Fergie wants to distance himself from hiring Moyes, i thought it was pretty clear he had a decent say on who he liked given how Moyes was approached early on by Fergie himself.
Either way. None of this vindicates Moyes in any way...It's fine and dandy that the team required signings, but we still had a pretty good foundation which Moyes could build on. Very few / none expected us to be title challengers from day one under a new manager, but there's a big difference between title challengers and barely qualifying for the Europa League..Moyes was so out of his depth on so many levels it's difficult to understand why he was hired in the first place. He was shockingly bad.
https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threa...e-man-utd-job-if-youre-a-bad-manager.1349560/
Even the Sunderland fans can see through his bullshit.
Even the Sunderland fans can see through his bullshit.
How? He didn't even do anything. The two players he bought have been our best and most consistent players in the last three years. I dunno if I can buy into "damaging the club massively" he came in with the reputation of a bunger, proceeded to act like one and orchestrate a PL season like one. He didn't really do or change anything in his time here.
If you want to see systematic damaging of a club, look at LVG bumming off a raft of our strikers/attackers and essentially registering 17 senior players, a bunch of them being first and second choice in several positions and then having green, barely-capped players in the trenches, next man up to go over the top. Now THAT is damaging a club.
Moyes can get to feck still though.
RTG boards remind me off RedCafe in 2013. Every other thread is about Moyes. I kind of feel sorry for them.
Wut?
One of them has been ok for the most part, and the other one is a £24 million sack of dogshit that is an embarrassment to the game.
What point is he trying to make about live football? Bizarre pre match program.
Before the season started I was absolutely dreading the thought that Moyes could potentially nick a result against us. Thank feck that didn't happen.
Amazing how he's lasted so long though. If it weren't for England losing to Iceland, Sunderland would probably be in a much better shape
Amazing how he's lasted so long though. If it weren't for England losing to Iceland, Sunderland would probably be in a much better shape
He can handle a few thousand in the ground realising he's managerial poison, but not millions around the world.
I was too. Gonna settle down later and see what they're saying over at RTG. Funny as feck those postersBefore the season started I was absolutely dreading the thought that Moyes could potentially nick a result against us. Thank feck that didn't happen.
Amazing how he's lasted so long though. If it weren't for England losing to Iceland, Sunderland would probably be in a much better shape
Surely after such a poor season he is gonna find it difficult to manage in the Premier League again, isn't he?
He's literally complaining that football's too popular...
A professional football manager, a PL manager, no less, is complaining that there's too much football to watch.
He isn't complaining about them having too many fixtures, he is actually complaining that there's too much football to watch...
Wow.
Unfortunately probably not. He's one of those British managers where once you're on that managerial train, you've got a seat for life.