I wouldn't be unhappy with Tuchel as wengers replacement either. Guy is crap
Should Wenger be sacked?
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The guy has won 3 trophies in last 4 years- same as Chelsea, us and City, despite having spent way less than the 3 clubs. He's finished above us in all of the last 4 seasons as well. To say that Wenger is finished and him staying is a blessing is us hugely underestimating his ability as a manager
People prefer him to stay because he is the least likely to win the title in the next season out of current top 6
Nah, he hasn't won the PL or even challenged properly in donkey years. He can win the FA cup all he likes, I couldn't care less.
Really? So it's clear Tuchel might replace Wenger.Guess that depends on, when Tuchel gets fired by Dortmund. That´s also scheduled for mid-week.
Nah it´s not clear, that he´ll go to Arsenal. That´s just my personal opinion. It´s only clear that he´ll get fired mid-week to create some emotional distance to the Cup win, so they can sell it better to the fans. That´s also why they send out some un-happy older players to badmouth him in the press.
There were rumours that Arsenal inquired about his availability earlier this year, so I assume that interest is very much alive. I guess that Wenger will become the director of football and Tuchel becomes the new manager. It´s just a matter of pulling the trigger now or in a year. Tuchel still has a deal until next year in Dortmund, so the terms of the contract termination will have to be negotiated.
Anyone else finding it bizarre how that FA Cup win has changed the minds of so many fans/pundits who were previously absolutely convinced that Wenger needed to leave for the good of Arsenal?
It really isn't. If winning the FA Cup was a true measure of managerial talent we'd have Van Gaal still in charge.
Is it that surprising or weird that he hasn't though?
At least 2 of us, City and Chelsea have had a better team than them for most of that time.
Probably one of his better teams in a long time and they're still not great in 3/4 positions and dont have particularly good cover for injuries
He could have been more pragmatic and ground out more results and sneak a league win if they were lucky in that time but playing good football isn't the worst trade off in the world
Van Gaal was sacked because of the how god awful our play had become. If he had got us playing well, the FA cup might have saved him. With Wenger, for all his fourth place finishes, he at least has them playing well. I'm not we are underestimating his talent, just pointing out that the situation with LvG was different.
Why should that be a trade off? Every league winner I can remember has always played good football. Good football is the key to winning lots of football matches. If anything, a cup competition like the FA Cup is a better option if a manager wants to try and win trophies by grinding out results without playing good football.
I dont think van gaal is a particularly fair comparison either
We just have a lot more money to throw around and higher expectations come with taht
I get why they would let him go, I just dont think anyone else is going to do that much better a job.
Yeah maybe not.
I think it can be useful means of getting results against teams that are better than you basically and i'd say his results against chelsea and what not over the years have cost them usually.
They might not have fared any better shutting up shop in them games though
We just have a lot more money to throw around and higher expectations come with taht
I get why they would let him go, I just dont think anyone else is going to do that much better a job.
Yeah maybe not.
I think it can be useful means of getting results against teams that are better than you basically and i'd say his results against chelsea and what not over the years have cost them usually.
They might not have fared any better shutting up shop in them games though
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I believe he's had the resources to at least challenge in the last decade. Liverpool have gotten closer without having regular CL football, and so have Spurs for that matter. Under him the expectations have continuously been revised downwards, from winning titles, to challenging until March, to squeezing in the top four, and now not even doing that.
I think the timing of Arsenal's most recent decline is the most damning of all. One of their biggest rivals (us) has more or less fallen to pieces since Fergie retired and Arsenal have finally started spending big money. The combination of these two factors should have seen them consistently right up there in a challeng for the league. Instead, they're even further off the pace.
This is the first season in ages that tottenham have finished ahead of him and they were still miles off the top.
Liverpool finished this season one point ahead of him with no european football and dropping out of domestic cups first chance they got.
And both have pretty good managers in their own right (who'll struggle to win the league too).
I think they do about as well as you'd expect every season. You could criticise him for not overachieving at least once in that time but he hasn't really underachieved either.
As i said I get whey the supporters want a change, the whole groundhog day nature of their season would probably drive me mental
But i dont think anyone else is going to manage better.
Maybe Simeone could but that isn't going to be a very smooth transition
Exactly this.
One can criticize him all they want, but you have to appreciate the team's consistency at nearly top of the table. I get why their fans want a change as consistency is boring but I don't think there are many managers who can achieve what he has in this era with these kind of resources, certainly not these high profile managers like Pep, Mou and Klopp.
They may have pipped Spurs to second last season but Spurs were in the title hunt for most of the season and Arsenal were never in the picture. They only sneaked in after the title destination was long decided. For banter purposes the gooners have full right to mock Spurs for it, but I don't think any of them honestly could say they were closer to the title than Spurs. The disparity is even more stark this year.
I think in light of that, and our own collapse as @Pogue Mahone pointed out, you would expect Arsenal to have done better these last two seasons. Last year 3 of the 'big 6' managers were sacked. Poch had way less resources than Wenger while Klopp was in his first season and was 45 minutes away from winning Liverpool a European trophy. For Arsenal to go nowhere in Europe and still not be in the title frame was poor. This season they've lost out on the only thing Wenger's been delivering for Arsenal - CL qualification. He deserves the sack, imo.
I agree with you that I don't think a new manager comes in and it gets better all of a sudden, but the trend now (and for some time) has been downwards and they'd hope someone can come in and at least start building the club back to a place where it competes for the biggest trophies. They ought to at least try.
Yeah hes underachieved last 2 years, hard to argue with that
Not by a drastic amount though
Tottenham were never close to the title last year so it seems kind of irrelevant tbh.
Them getting back into the race was always reliant on Leicester fecking up and collapsing.
The fact that Tottenham did instead should surely be a black mark against them relative to arsenal rather than an argument in their favour.
I get why the fans want a change and I get why the board isn't enthusiastic about giving them a change.
I dont think firing him is the blindingly, obvious best option that some suggest basically.
I guess I'd rather my team tried to chase down the frontrunners and then collapse due to demoralization after it became impossible than never having been in the hunt at all. Arsenal basically won the games at the end of the season when it no longer mattered, a bit like their run right at the death this year which ended up being too little too late as well. Can see both sides of it, for those who would argue Spurs showed weak mentality in their collapse.
For me it depends on what's going on behind the scenes. Are the board looking at replacements and decided whoever they want isn't available yet or they need time to start making structural changes? Or are they just backing Wenger and hoping he turns it around so they don't have to make the hard decisions? If they've actually decided to replace Wenger next summer and just need time to put a succession plan into place then fair dos, although I'd question why it wasn't done sooner. But the way the club has been going the fans are probably afraid the board are just sticking their heads in the sand.
he clearly has the money to spend for players. So I dont get the logic of "not having resources".
Its like me living in NY with $1000 in the bank but spending only $10 per day and then complaining I have to live on limited resources
Its like me living in NY with $1000 in the bank but spending only $10 per day and then complaining I have to live on limited resources
"The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
I think he will stay.
Who else are the club going to hire at this stage? Unless the board has been working out a deal for a new manager all this time. The last thing I want is for us to spend the next two months looking for a manager who then has to come in, evaluate the team and identify his transfer targets.
I honestly think the board never once thought about having to hire a new manager at the end of this season. This new contract was supposed to be nothing but a mere formality but our failure this season and the fan backlash has made what was a straightforward decision, something a bit more complicated. I disagree with that line of thinking though, a new contract should be earned over the course of a season not a foregone conclusion. Its almost as if this contract extension wasn't first based on results on the pitch in the first place, but now they are being taken into account.
Who else are the club going to hire at this stage? Unless the board has been working out a deal for a new manager all this time. The last thing I want is for us to spend the next two months looking for a manager who then has to come in, evaluate the team and identify his transfer targets.
I honestly think the board never once thought about having to hire a new manager at the end of this season. This new contract was supposed to be nothing but a mere formality but our failure this season and the fan backlash has made what was a straightforward decision, something a bit more complicated. I disagree with that line of thinking though, a new contract should be earned over the course of a season not a foregone conclusion. Its almost as if this contract extension wasn't first based on results on the pitch in the first place, but now they are being taken into account.
I am praying that he stays at AFC.
It'll be terrible for AFC, but great for their rivals.
He deserves another contract. 75 points plus an FA Cup isn't bad
I don't think he will ever win the title again though and the end of his great career is kinda sad
The fans just don't like him anymore and if I was him I would resign. I guess he doesn't care what they think
I don't think he will ever win the title again though and the end of his great career is kinda sad
The fans just don't like him anymore and if I was him I would resign. I guess he doesn't care what they think
Well that would be quite responsible of you as you'd only be able to survive for 100 days...
Wenger doesn't get the idea of inflation. He complains every year about how prices of top talent has gone up and is ridiculous and then proceeds to buy mid quality talent. However due to prices inflating at 15 to 20% annually, price of mid quality talent today is approximately equal to the price of top talent 2 years prior.
Given arsenals cost of debt is less than 6%, assuming inflation persists (which is very reasonable given player prices have been rising at double digit percentages annually for more than 2 decades) economics dictate one should just borrow and buy as many players as quickly as possible because in a year or 2 they'll be much more expensive and the cost to finance is much lower than inflation.
Given arsenals cost of debt is less than 6%, assuming inflation persists (which is very reasonable given player prices have been rising at double digit percentages annually for more than 2 decades) economics dictate one should just borrow and buy as many players as quickly as possible because in a year or 2 they'll be much more expensive and the cost to finance is much lower than inflation.
I think Wenger should stay. For his sorry face alone, after winning the cup. That's a man who really loves his job. They already took out Ranieri, and LVG, my heart can't take any more old farts being cast away.
think he wanted to win the FA Cup and leave.
I still remember how when Flamini left he didn't reinforce that position until Flamini came back 5 years older. I think he's just a very cheap old man.
Arsene Wenger is finished as a manager at the top level; he used to be competing with the likes of Ferguson but now he is a David Moyes at Everton type of manager. Someone that lacks the cutting edge of top managers but is good at hitting targets.
The main reason Arsenal have stayed in the top 4 for so long is because top English teams have regressed in quality. It was inevitable that Arsenal would finish outside the top 4 once the quality of the top teams started improving.
Arsenal have 9 points against the top 6 and 3 of those points came from the game with us where we handed the game to them to focus on the Europa league. Wenger hasnt handled the big games well in 6 or 7 years now.
The main reason Arsenal have stayed in the top 4 for so long is because top English teams have regressed in quality. It was inevitable that Arsenal would finish outside the top 4 once the quality of the top teams started improving.
Arsenal have 9 points against the top 6 and 3 of those points came from the game with us where we handed the game to them to focus on the Europa league. Wenger hasnt handled the big games well in 6 or 7 years now.
Pundits in being fickle shocker. I agree it's bizarre, but the English fans/press love to change the narrative as often as possible.
He's going to stay.
A prediction and a wish.
A prediction and a wish.
The smart thing to do for Wenger is to leave on a high. Abysmal league effort, with the team only showing up for the last few games. I never saw so many Arsenal fans against Wenger and wanting him out and for good reason.
Wenger should leave after this FA cup win and that way save his face and his legacy. Is he capable of placing arsenal first or will it be Arsene first?
Wenger should leave after this FA cup win and that way save his face and his legacy. Is he capable of placing arsenal first or will it be Arsene first?
Can we have a poll on how many blame the Arsenal board as opposed to the manager? I'd say with the budget he has been provided over the past years and the Emirates project - Wenger hasn't been that underwhelming; . After Wenger lost his "Invincible's", he either did not adequately replace them or was not able to (because of financial constraints) and therein lies his eventual downfall.
The financial constraints argument is valid for the period of the transition. Fact is; he has had no financial constraints for the last couple seasons. Signing Ozil and Sanchez are two examples of Arsenal getting back on board with spending power.
His downfall is his stubbornness. He applies dinosaur football philosophy, appears to have no plan B for when things go sour and predominantly plays "attacking" football without the punch. Admittedly, recent games he did perform better by switching to a different formation. But, why didn't he mix things up at any time over the last 10 seasons?
He should leave now. Be remembered for his legacy. The FA Cup gives him another chance at a dignified exit.
for business reasons, which football sadly is about these days, Wenger is a very good asset and he should stay. They can see what happened to us when we lost SAF:
1)we have gone through 3 managers (not much stability) in a short time. Also there arent that many top managers out there. huge gamble
2) we have not qualified for Champions leagues most years...
3) we have spent a huge amount of money on players (for various reasons, ie coaches needs and systems, incompetent of Ed in his first years, players not performing etc..).
Wenger has plodded on being in the money and only this year has not qualified for the Champions League... Also he spends relatively little
bottom line: I would keep him if I were Arsenal, change does not guaranty success
1)we have gone through 3 managers (not much stability) in a short time. Also there arent that many top managers out there. huge gamble
2) we have not qualified for Champions leagues most years...
3) we have spent a huge amount of money on players (for various reasons, ie coaches needs and systems, incompetent of Ed in his first years, players not performing etc..).
Wenger has plodded on being in the money and only this year has not qualified for the Champions League... Also he spends relatively little
bottom line: I would keep him if I were Arsenal, change does not guaranty success
Wright says he is leaving, while Cross the opposite. Both usually talks shit. Just wait for an official announcement.
If his replacement is Tuchel no thanks.