So what your saying is that it's a group of people who are convincing them to do these things in the name of islam? If so, then the thing to do is to figure out who this group is and find out why they want mentally ill people to kill in the name of islam and take down this group.
I would say they hide behind religion as an excuseYet they all do this in the name of a religion.
By addressing the fact that modern Islam is not compatible with the West and that a reformation of said religion should be encouraged. Also, banning Wahhabism and expelling any Wahhabist preachers, putting pressure on Saudi Arabia.
In the meantime immigration from Islamic countries should be limited so that only people in smaller numbers who can integrate in modern society should be allowed to come in, rather than vast numbers of uneducated and unwilling to change their ways Islamists.
You may think I'm harsh but there is no other way. There is no magical and "nice" way to fix this. It won't go away unless the necessary steps are taken.
Can't it ever be the fault of the people that perpetrate these attrocities?
I'm not saying that they weren't radicalised in part by our actions, but it's almost like the actual terrorists get forgotten by some people.
That's the sensible way of looking at it. Sadly most of the country would prefer to intervene in middle eastern countries and show our military strength and demonstrate our robust security and defence.
Media will seize on events like this to prove we need strong leader in power who is capable of going to war.
It is, the people who are carry an attack are responsible for it. But our government has spent a long time turning countries into failed states rife for radicalisation and terror training. And budding up with those that sponsor the terrorism because it's good for industry. Hence, they're also responsible for it.Can't it ever be the fault of the people that perpetrate these attrocities?
I'm not saying that they weren't radicalised in part by our actions, but it's almost like the actual terrorists get forgotten by some people.
100%. Being a bad version of any group doesn't mean you're not part of that group.They hide behind 'Islam' but you actually credit them to be followers of Islam? They are a disgrace to Islam and to humanity.
They hide behind 'Islam' but you actually credit them to be followers of Islam? They are a disgrace to Islam and to humanity.
Born to refugee parents. They obviously weren't raised right. You don't hear Christian immigrants doing this, do you?I literally can't think of a recent attack where the attacker hasn't been born in the country (or close to the country) they attacked. This does more harm than good.
I bet this shit doesn't happen directly after the election like it is directly before.
By addressing the fact that modern Islam is not compatible with the West and that a reformation of said religion should be encouraged. Also, banning Wahhabism and expelling any Wahhabist preachers, putting pressure on Saudi Arabia.
In the mean time immigration from Islamic countries should be limited so that only people in smaller numbers who can integrate in modern society should be allowed to come in, rather than vast numbers of uneducated and unwilling to change their ways Islamists.
You may think I'm harsh but there is no other way. There is no magical and "nice" way to fix this. It won't go away unless the necessary steps are taken.
Yea let's not try and understand the cause.
Have you read the mail??that would be very wroung though. He has simply provided context and rationale.
Charlie Hebdo attacks, Madrid Bombings, 9/11 - Foreign AttackersI literally can't think of a recent attack where the attacker hasn't been born in the country (or close to the country) they attacked. This does more harm than good.
Because, erm, logic, or something...Agreed and why is understanding the causes of radicalisation in any way saying that the radicalised individuals aren't personally responsible for their actions?
The first step is to say it as it is. It is a small member of the Muslim community that is doing this. From there everybody works together to eradicate it. The Muslim community would have to play a huge part in helping our country out, their country out.
In the future it may be a small sect from within another community which is at large and we take it from there. But the police can't stop this alone, our communities have a huge part to play.
I'm really sorry, but Islam was formed by a warlord that mainly expanded his religion through conquest. It's in the basis of said religion to be this way. They are not hiding behind anything, eveything they do is written in teh Quran
Born to refugee parents. They obviously weren't raised right. You don't hear Christian immigrants doing this, do you?
And for the record, I don't believe in any religion or any god. But Christianity is not a problem... Islam is. It needs to be reformed.
Because, erm, logic, or something...
kind of.
Also a shit religion tbf. Maybe worshipping people who died thousands of years ago is a bad idea?
Yet they all do this in the name of a religion.
The thing that really annoys me about all this is when I think back to the vote on bombing Syria...or more specifically all of the MPs who were literally having a good laugh about it and the suggestion of debating it, seconds after voting in favour of dropping bombs on people's homes.
There's no hiding from the fact that these incidents we're having now are at the very least connected to that vote (The Manchester bomber's sister even suggested that attack was a direct result of it).
It also wasn't exactly a difficult or unlikely course of events to predict, at the time that vote was made...yet they all thought it was fecking hilarious. It was infuriating at the time. Is what's happening here funny?
These are desperate or hate filled people acting out of revenge or blind illogical anger. They have no plan for overall victory or grand scheme of events. You can't fight them by dropping bombs on people's homes or treating them like an army you can just wipe out. The only way you beat them is by taking away their meaning or cause...yet our media and politicians always seem intent on fuelling it instead.
They're subhuman scumbag cnuts.You haven't once condemned the attackers.
That's just not true. There's terrorists with degrees in proper subjects like engineering and everything.They don't have the mental capacity to follow anything remotely as complex as religion. To say they are misguided would be a gross understatement. The actions of such people, brain washed or otherwise are simply incompatible with any civilised society and utterly devoid of morality.
Conspiracy theory?
You haven't once condemned the attackers.
Can't it ever be the fault of the people that perpetrate these attrocities?
I'm not saying that they weren't radicalised in part by our actions, but it's almost like the actual terrorists get forgotten by some people.
I think this over simplifies the issue far too much, and symptomises the problem we have in this country.
Whilst it is undoubtable that our half-arsed approach to bombing and arming certain factions over there has helped to fuel their recruitment and activities it isn't the main fact, nor the sole cause for what is happening now.
Lets not forget that these cretins want to convert the entire world to their perverted vision of Islam (historically the muslim faith has been one of the more accepting and peaceful until the rise of the jihadi and I do not consider these people to be muslim). That has been and always will be their 'cause'.
I wouldn't believe a word from the mouth of a family member of a terrorist if I were you. Because to say oh this is happening because of that almost makes it an apologists point of view and legitimises their cause. Lets be fully clear here, THERE IS NO CAUSE OR REASON GREAT ENOUGH THAT WOULD JUSTIFY DIRECLY AND DILIBERATELY TARGETING INNOCENT CIVILIANS INCLUDING CHILDREN.
This is solely the act of a sick group, who are trying to maim and kill all who don't agree or convert to their perverted vision of the world.
By addressing the fact that modern Islam is not compatible with the West and that a reformation of said religion should be encouraged. Also, banning Wahhabism and expelling any Wahhabist preachers, putting pressure on Saudi Arabia.
In the meantime immigration from Islamic countries should be limited so that only people in smaller numbers who can integrate in modern society should be allowed to come in, rather than vast numbers of uneducated and unwilling to change their ways Islamists.
You may think I'm harsh but there is no other way. There is no magical and "nice" way to fix this. It won't go away unless the necessary steps are taken.
Yes, fair point. However this is just one attack in the matter of how many years? How many Islamic attacks have happened in Europe and in the world (mind you) from 2011 to 2017 and how many Christian ones?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
He was a christian who wanted to 'It regards Islam and "cultural Marxism" as the enemy and argues for the annihilation of "Eurabia" and multiculturalism, to preserve a Christian Europe.'
But Christians don't go around bombing people. I mean, as I said, I'm not a Christian, however Christianity hasn't done anything in the past 200 years to warrant any special attention.The problem with elements of this though is that many of the perpetrators of these attacks are often homegrown - in many cases they're also disillusioned radicals as opposed to devout conservative Muslims. I do think there's a major problem with the inherent conservatism of the religion as a whole, and that it's something in need of being addressed, but in many cases similar can be said for hardline Christians - they hold deeply conservative views which are out of kilter with many of our modern values, but in most cases a lot of them aren't involved in terror at all.
Yep, they certainly do their part in promoting this violence. That's a major problem.I do think putting pressure on Saudi Arabia is a fair point, right enough - an abhorrent regime which often placates a lot of terror within the Middle East.
I agree. The problem is nobody is stopping them from integrating, they just don't want to integrate, that's a problem in their culture. Their parents don't want their children to associate with Westerners. Their parents, for the most part, also don't respect the country they've immigrated to. There's nothing you can do fix this problem besides limiting immigration to sustainable levels were integrating them will be a lot easier. Otherwise we just sit and count the days until the next attack.The problem is though that there's no easy solution - we need to work towards integration and cooperation but even as we do so this problem isn't going to go away. Any attempt to create an integrated society where differences between the Islamic community and modern Britain/modern Western countries as a whole is going to take a long, long time, and in the meantime we're likely going to see continuing attacks unfortunately. The best we can do as we attempt to address the root cause is ensure our security services are well-funded and equipped to the best of their ability, and remain vigilant/take whatever necessary steps we can to avoid stuff like this.
I think worshipping anyone is a bad idea. The deifying of anything always seems to lead to trouble.Also a shit religion tbf. Maybe worshipping people who died thousands of years ago is a bad idea?
How do you go to war with some cnuts in a van though? You can't.
These things have a habit of happening before elections man, make of it what you will. Im not a huge conspiracy nut but these things have to be considered.
It seems you missed the last 200 years of history because they're rife with Christian abuse. Up until very recent times they were doing the same things as the more extreme Muslim countries. Parts of Africa and Russia still do. There has also been some Christian terrorism in North America in recent times.Yes, fair point. However this is just one attack in the matter of how many years? How many Islamic attacks have happened in Europe and in the world (mind you) from 2011 to 2017 and how many Christian ones?
The problem isn't just these Muslim attacks, it's the RATE of them. They're happening almost every day. And the one common thing with them is that the person that's doing said attack is following a certain religion.
But Christians don't go around bombing people. I mean, as I said, I'm not a Christian, however Christianity hasn't done anything in the past 200 years to warrant any special attention.
Yep, they certainly do their part in promoting this violence. That's a major problem.
I agree. The problem is nobody is stopping them from integrating, they just don't want to integrate, that's a problem in their culture. Their parents don't want their children to associate with Westerners. Their parents, for the most part, also don't respect the country they've immigrated to. There's nothing you can do fix this problem besides limiting immigration to sustainable levels were integrating them will be a lot easier. Otherwise we just sit and count the days until the next attack.
Ah but Guiness!It used to be the Irish of course.
All of them.
That's just not true. There's terrorists with degrees in proper subjects like engineering and everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
He was a christian who perceived Islam to be the enemy and wanted to preserve a 'Christian Europe'.
Yes, fair point. However this is just one attack in the matter of how many years? How many Islamic attacks have happened in Europe and in the world (mind you) from 2011 to 2017 and how many Christian ones?
The problem isn't just these Muslim attacks, it's the RATE of them. They're happening almost every day. And the one common thing with them is that the person that's doing said attack is following a certain religion.
But Christians don't go around bombing people. I mean, as I said, I'm not a Christian, however Christianity hasn't done anything in the past 200 years to warrant any special attention.
Yep, they certainly do their part in promoting this violence. That's a major problem.
I agree. The problem is nobody is stopping them from integrating, they just don't want to integrate, that's a problem in their culture. Their parents don't want their children to associate with Westerners. Their parents, for the most part, also don't respect the country they've immigrated to. There's nothing you can do fix this problem besides limiting immigration to sustainable levels were integrating them will be a lot easier. Otherwise we just sit and count the days until the next attack.
"Modern Islam" is, for the most part, living peacefully in the West. I know plenty of Muslim who are perfect citizens. Perfectly moderate and compassionate human beings who while having a very different culture in some areas have managed to integrate with few issues.
Muslim extremists on the other hand, which I think you have mistaken for "modern Islam" is a different beast altogether. The vast majority of terrorist attacks in the US are carried out by far right wing white supremists of varying Christian flavours. Is modern Christianity "not compatible with the west" or is it just a few that are spoiling it for the many?
Let's not forget that with well over a billion Muslims world wide, if Islam was really at war with us, we'd already be dead.
