Incident on London Bridge

SteveTheRed said:
What a joke that one of these attackers was on a Channel 4 documentary called "Jihadi's next door". It would be funny if it wasn't so fecking tragic. There are clips up online supposedly of him in Regents Park and about 5-6 others, waving an ISIS Flag. That alone should be enough to lock them up.
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Just seen the flag used in the park that day, it's not the flag used by ISIS, it's the generic black shahada flag with a different script used by many Islamist groups, especially al Qaeda affiliates but also for example by Hizb ut Tahrir which is legal in the UK.
 
Of course one of the attackers is known to the authorities. Not only that, he was on a documentary...

What about the 3rd one?

Really powerful message by the imams btw.
 
I like what the imams are doing. This will resonate, even if just a little, with the deluded idiots. Someone else suggested burying them in porcine filth. Might also be worth giving it a go.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
I don't like May, but Labour are nonsense.

More police won't stop these attacks. If someone decides to get in a van or go out stabbing people there is very little any amount of police can do to stop that.

Whilst that isn't to say too much has been cut out on police, isn't the same being said about the NHS and benefits and well everything and yet still the government deficit is growing and that just means a spiralling lack of control over interest payments, which means money to interest not to services.

Tougher controls over those linked to terrorism needs to be taken. If someone is known to intelligence services maybe it should be questioned if that is enough. Laws need to make it enough. There should be no free speech for extremists and those that follow them.

Corbyn is weak, he is definitely not a leader to make a difference. Not here, abroad or with Brexit. He can't balance a budget, he can't take tough measures. All he can do is make people vote based on false promises and badly calculated spending to be paid out of thin air.
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A voice of reason, sadly you will get short shrift on this forum, so bow down to Corbyn and the miracle economic policies that will tax everyone higher, grow the economy, and reduce the deficit with massive public spending increases.
 
Ban said:
Of course one of the attackers is known to the authorities. Not only that, he was on a documentary...

What about the 3rd one?

Really powerful message by the imams btw.
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Name not being released yet.
 
Chorley1974 said:
A voice of reason, sadly you will get short shrift on this forum, so bow down to Corbyn and the miracle economic policies that will tax everyone higher, grow the economy, and reduce the deficit with massive public spending increases.
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Why is Corbyn the one getting hammered for his finances when his manifesto is that one which is costed, whereas May's isn't? It's not really a credible argument.
 
Sigma said:
Why is Corbyn the one getting hammered for his finances when his manifesto is that one, whereas May's isn't? It's not really a credible argument.
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For a start he assumes a linear rate of income tax returns on taxing those earning >80K PA, that simply isn't going to happen. Also raising corporation tax is going to be very negative, especially post brexit when foreign investment will be needed even more.
 
Sorry if I seem stupid, but I'm not from the UK so I'd just like to clear some things up for myself.

So, some of the terrorists behind the attacks in both London and Manchester were known to the authorities, and some were even reported and banned from mosques, by the local Muslim communities? And while the first responders were doing their jobs perfectly, the counter-terror authorities/intelligence are seen as partially at fault for not being able to avoid the attacks, no? And now the local imams refuse to carry out the prayers for the London attackers?

If I'm not wrong, then it makes my local conservatives and far-right seem really daft. Basically celebrating the attacks, trying to score points of it with the same old talk about the Muslims not doing enough to condemn terrorism and how we should step out of Schengen to avoid this happening in our country, even though a lot of terrorists across Europe have been "home-grown".
 
klsv said:
Sorry if I seem stupid, but I'm not from the UK so I'd just like to clear some things up for myself.

So, some of the terrorists behind the attacks in both London and Manchester were known to the authorities, and some were even reported and banned from mosques, by the local Muslim communities? And while the first responders were doing their jobs perfectly, the counter-terror authorities/intelligence are seen as partially at fault for not being able to avoid the attacks, no? And now the local imams refuse to carry out the prayers for the London attackers?

If I'm not wrong, then it makes my local conservatives and far-right seem really daft. Basically celebrating the attacks, trying to score points of it with the same old talk about the Muslims not doing enough to condemn terrorism and how we should step out of Schengen to avoid this happening in our country, even though a lot of terrorists across Europe have been "home-grown".
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Who is doing that, and how?
 
Here's the documentary:



London attacker Khuram Butt appears at about 14:50 asking if "anyone's got a smart phone?".
 
Chorley1974 said:
Who is doing that, and how?
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The local far-right parties and groups, with one of them in the parliament. Basically, they have skipped the condolences part and gone straight to bringing the UK as an example of what happens when you loosen your borders. Gloating, telling people "we told you so!". Trump got a lot of shit his first tweet, but it's a lot worse here (Eastern Europe).
 
2cents said:
Here's the documentary:



London attacker Khuram Butt appears at about 14:50 asking if "anyone's got a smart phone?".
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Just finished watching. Not sure how these guys evade the law and why they are not locked up. The government needs to tweak laws to make that possible, without the possibility of innocents being dragged into it. It may be a delicate piece of law, but it needs to be done pronto.

As an aside, there was not one moment when I felt a sense of empathy or support for what these guys stand for. It's why British Muslims say this is not their faith because none of this represents what they have been taught by their elders and Islamic teachers.
 
saivet said:
If he doesn't have a criminal record, not sure what you'd expect. Also do we have any idea when he worked for them?
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Scary though was more the point. I think 2016 not sure though.
 
Police are reportedly examining what appeared to be Molotov cocktails found in the van used in the London Bridge attack.

At least 12 homemade explosive devices were found inside the vehicle that rammed into pedestrians on Saturday night, according to Sky News. The fire brigade were reportedly present when the devices were removed.
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Death toll might have been much worse if they hadn't crashed the van.
 
klsv said:
Sorry if I seem stupid, but I'm not from the UK so I'd just like to clear some things up for myself.

So, some of the terrorists behind the attacks in both London and Manchester were known to the authorities, and some were even reported and banned from mosques, by the local Muslim communities? And while the first responders were doing their jobs perfectly, the counter-terror authorities/intelligence are seen as partially at fault for not being able to avoid the attacks, no? And now the local imams refuse to carry out the prayers for the London attackers?

If I'm not wrong, then it makes my local conservatives and far-right seem really daft. Basically celebrating the attacks, trying to score points of it with the same old talk about the Muslims not doing enough to condemn terrorism and how we should step out of Schengen to avoid this happening in our country, even though a lot of terrorists across Europe have been "home-grown".
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Perhaps, but i imagine it is a case of there not being enough Officers to monitor ever nutter 24-7.
 
Butt featured in a Channel 4 documentary last year about Islamist extremists with links to the jailed preacher Anjem Choudary.

The married father-of-two, who worked for London Underground as a trainee customer services assistant for nearly six months last year, could be seen in the programme arguing with police officers in the street, after displaying a flag used by so-called Islamic State in a London park.

Two people in Barking, east London, had also raised concerns about Butt, the BBC's home affairs correspondent Dominic Casciani said.

One man called the anti-terrorism hotline in 2015, and a woman went to the local police because she was scared Butt was trying to radicalise her children.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40168526

As far as I'm concerned, anyone waving an IS flag is dangerous. That should be all that is necessary to take action. No peaceful person would do such a thing.
 
rcoobc said:
How did the security services miss this? Why have we gone from getting all of these guys, to letting 4 or 5 through the net in the last 6 months.
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I don't know, it's bizarre. If Butt was arguing with police officers, you might have thought some kind of report would have been made. Add to that the concerns raised by two members of the public, and it starts stacking up fairly convincingly.
 
2cents said:
Just seen the flag used in the park that day, it's not the flag used by ISIS, it's the generic black shahada flag with a different script used by many Islamist groups, especially al Qaeda affiliates but also for example by Hizb ut Tahrir which is legal in the UK.
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Ah ok. As you said, these guys know the law and how far they can push it. Something needs to change though. I don't know how true it is but I was listening to Piers Morgan go on about 800 people have travelled to Syria to fight and 400 of them have come back into this country, it should not happen.
 
SteveTheRed said:
Ah ok. As you said, these guys know the law and how far they can push it. Something needs to change though. I don't know how true it is but I was listening to Piers Morgan go on about 800 people have travelled to Syria to fight and 400 of them have come back into this country, it should not happen.
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Technically, if they are a British Citizen, it's illegal to not let them back in the country. We had the same thing when talking about Asma al-Assad.

I think Australia HAVE started preventing their own citizens from entering the country, but in reality, not really.
 
2cents said:
Just seen the flag used in the park that day, it's not the flag used by ISIS, it's the generic black shahada flag with a different script used by many Islamist groups, especially al Qaeda affiliates but also for example by Hizb ut Tahrir which is legal in the UK.
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There have been mass complaints about Al Muhajiroon and their different guises from Muslims over many years. We've had threads in the CE forum where I and others were ranting about this group. I had an altercation with one their members on Tottenham Court Rd whilst he was distributing leaflets many years back and was threatened by him verbally. Unfortunately, they have always stayed on the right side of the law and used UK's liberal values to their advantage in avoiding arrest.
 
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... the killers burst into the restaurant shouting "Islam, Islam" and "This is for Allah".

"I took a few steps towards them and said, 'F*** you, I’m Millwall'. So they started attacking me.

"I stood in front of them trying to fight them off. Everyone else ran to the back. I was on my own against all three of them, that’s why I got hurt so much. It was just me, trying to grab them with my bare hands and hold on. I was swinging.

"I got stabbed and sliced eight times. They got me in my head, chest and both hands. There was blood everywhere. They were saying, 'Islam, Islam!'. I said again, 'F*** you, I’m Millwall!'

"It was the worst thing I could have done as they carried on attacking me. Luckily, none of the blows were straight at me or I’d be dead."
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:lol:
 
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