North Korea
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The journal entries in the link you provided (I'd read them earlier and didn't bother posting them) support the accounts in the links I posted. AKA that Truman went along with military men's outlines/briefings/reports until he learned that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not the 'military targets' he'd been told they were. Strains credibility in this day and age of insta-Google, but back then, maybe he really didn't know.
Of course, it's also possible that all of this was carefully timed/orchestrated so that he could claim he had no idea they weren't military targets.
Of course, it's also possible that all of this was carefully timed/orchestrated so that he could claim he had no idea they weren't military targets.
I am going to say it is bull shit that he did not give any decision until after the first two bombs were used. That is the writer skewing one bit of information and pretending nothing else could have happened before it. That plans were already in place for the use before he became President makes sense, but he would still be involved upon hearing the plans to veto them, change them, request delays, etc or to authorize the plans to go ahead.
The idea that he also would not have understood a city would contain women and children among it's citizens is complete idiocy. The authors give no evidence at all that Truman had reason to believe the cities only contained military personnel. I think people are misunderstanding the term "military targets" to mean targets that contained only military personnel and equipment. The entire war was full of bombing cities in efforts to take out the means of production, transportation hubs, etc. All "military targets" despite the presence of civilians.
The idea that he also would not have understood a city would contain women and children among it's citizens is complete idiocy. The authors give no evidence at all that Truman had reason to believe the cities only contained military personnel. I think people are misunderstanding the term "military targets" to mean targets that contained only military personnel and equipment. The entire war was full of bombing cities in efforts to take out the means of production, transportation hubs, etc. All "military targets" despite the presence of civilians.
Spot on
So, one more Iraq?
Quite a bit different than Iraq, since it's not being trotted out as a casus belli...
They've been known by everyone in the world to have had them since the 1950s. Kim Il Sung issued the "Declaration for Chemicalization" and established the Nuclear and Chemical Defense Bureau.
In the 1960s and 1970s the Chinese and Soviets helped them advance and increase their chemical weapons development.
Furthermore, North Korea never signed the Chemical Weapons Convention and haven't provided proof that they've refrained from creating biological weapons since 1990.
If they had it for so long, why the sudden bother now? They'll rattle the cage as usual now and then.
Because now we have an idiot in office who might actually push them enough to make them jump
Besides that, you are arguing the wrong point with me I think.
The point I made is that the estimates for death toll in Seoul aren't exaggerated and I gave the reasons why.
In 1999, President Bill Clinton sent an envoy to North Korea for a rare negotiation aimed at stopping the country’s nuclear development. That set in motion a series of meetings that led the United States and North Korea to close in on an agreement.
That was the moment, the envoy says, when everything could have gone differently.
On today’s episode:
William Perry, who was secretary of defense from 1994 to 1997, gives his account of that trip to Pyongyang and how, in the following months, everything fell apart — putting the U.S. is in a much harder negotiating position today.
Good listen - 22min podcast (including Trumps take from 1999) - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/10/...prod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share
That was the moment, the envoy says, when everything could have gone differently.
On today’s episode:
William Perry, who was secretary of defense from 1994 to 1997, gives his account of that trip to Pyongyang and how, in the following months, everything fell apart — putting the U.S. is in a much harder negotiating position today.
Good listen - 22min podcast (including Trumps take from 1999) - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/10/...prod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share
Irrelevant in today's context. No one else had any in 1945.
Good Lord. Kind of reminds me why I stopped coming here. Obviously neither he nor anyone else involved in the targeting ever thought these cities were made up of 100% combatants. Likewise, none of the authors of those pieces ever come close to insinuating anything of the sort.
Anyway, here's the text of some of the Truman journal entries typed out for others' use. Again, what's interesting here is the timeline of events and, if true, those events leading to Truman taking nuclear launch authority out of the military's hands and placing said authority solely in the office of the President.
http://www.dannen.com/decision/hst-jl25.html
https://www.stripes.com/news/specia...ies-reveal-no-hesitation-some-regret-1.360308
Also a link to the Manhattan Project, whose timeline will show dates that present some food for thought.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project
Also a podcast covering some of the subject matter.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/nukes/
Always disliked Truman for dropping the bombs. Had no idea about all of this.
Yeah, but that's not whatcha said
Besides that, what you said is wishful thinking.
In times of peace the military never would have had permission to drop the bomb on anyone. Trumans order did not change that. All Truman did was call a halt to that part of the campaign to see what would happen next in terms of Japan's willingness to surrender.
In any post WW2 conflict no President would have allowed the military to decide whether to use the bomb or not.
Nothing will happen from North Korea's end. Kim is an intelligent and probably very rational person.
Why would he give up all that power and life of luxury?
You'd have to be completely nuts. Which I don't believe.
On the other hand, sabre rattling could tip Trump over the edge. It's a dangerous game Kim is playing.
Why would he give up all that power and life of luxury?
You'd have to be completely nuts. Which I don't believe.
On the other hand, sabre rattling could tip Trump over the edge. It's a dangerous game Kim is playing.
I actually thought it was him when i opened the thread 
If kim wouldn't be a massive bellend, he'd still have China in his corner. The country would be in much better shape, the regime more stable and all that without acting like a trigger-happy idiot.
If he'd be the average "rational tin-pot dictator", he wouldn't constantly threaten every country around him. No rational actor would bait trump.
The guy is socialised in an isolated totalitarian dictatorship. Everything points in the direction to him being completely deluded. Sure, it could be all just sham to stay in power. I wouldn't bet on it. Who would become a "normal" person in such an environment? That would be quite extraordinary.
It's very difficult to judge how this will go as no one really has any idea as to how mad he is, I'd wager very.
Hopefully NK shit the bed when they realise Trump isn't messing and some agreed disarmament occurs but i can't see it.
I think whats more likely is the international community instigate a revolt, there must be generals in that inner circle who don't want all out war.
He is murdering thousands and thousands of North Koreans in internment camps.
He chooses bizarre execution methods and conducts Holocaust style medical experiments on captives.
He is happy to let millions starve when simple measures would save them while living in complete luxury himself.
He allows laughable glorious leader cult propaganda to continue.
He is threatening a nation with the most powerful military force ever created.
Everything points to him being a complete monster and mentally insane.
According to the Guardian, South Korea and US are mobilizing tens of thousands of troops for some military exercises.
That will calm things down then. The pillocks.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/11/north-korea-us-south-korea-huge-military-exercise
That will calm things down then. The pillocks.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/11/north-korea-us-south-korea-huge-military-exercise
Should we send them a postcard wishing them the best of luck with their endeavours instead?
You can calm things down now but don't confuse that with resolution.
I like the way N Korea have made it tough for someone to do a Iraq or Libya on it!
The thing is, all we hear is the Western Media's version of events. The media want a war, because they know there is zero threat to America or Europe. NK aren't a threat to anyone - maybe they could overrun South Korea based on numbers, but even that isn't a given. Always worth remembering that Kim Jong Un was educated in Europe for a good while - he'll know the world, it's not like he's existed in this bubble of propaganda all his life. He knows he can't compete in a war with anyone. He just wants power, and there are only so many ways to keep it.. Wrong? Sure.
Trump on the other hand was never educated. He's a twat. Worse than that though, America is becoming increasingly detached from reality. The version of events I got from some (not stupid) American friends when I visited earlier this year was scary.. Some of the news reporting is scary.
There's only one seriously dangerous country out there, and it certainly isn't a tiny place in Asia with no money and some 1970s Soviet weapons.
They do this every year though.
I think that's a harsh evaluation of American society. At the top level, the think tanks and policy makers are as lucid as ever, and the general population of every country has large sections of people who don't care enough about the world outside of their immediate day-to-day lives to educate themselves on matters to a higher degree. That doesn't mean that a country as a whole is detached from reality, but that they perhaps focus more on their own immediate reality rather than a foreign intangible reality.
You might want to read the first couple of paragraphs. In fact read the entire article and see the facts before linking the article. This is the standard yearly training exercise run every year for decades. Every year NK whines about it and every year it is not a cover for an invasion. NK also holds its own military excercises.
China just finished a set of their own.
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/china-neutral-n-korea-strikes-us-state-run-051541992.html
Now its not official policy but is in the "golbal times"... which I suppose is about as close to the Sun as you get in China - populist, quite nationalistic and somewhat controversial
But this is what they are saying... basically if NK strikes first let the USA respond - but defend NK if USA attacks first
in truth I cant see anyway that China allows USA to position troops in the Chinese border so whilst not "official" government policy there is quite possibly some truth in the sentiment
Now its not official policy but is in the "golbal times"... which I suppose is about as close to the Sun as you get in China - populist, quite nationalistic and somewhat controversial
But this is what they are saying... basically if NK strikes first let the USA respond - but defend NK if USA attacks first
in truth I cant see anyway that China allows USA to position troops in the Chinese border so whilst not "official" government policy there is quite possibly some truth in the sentiment
It's a training excercise. Every military has them. The NK army has them. China just had one. During the Cold War NATO and the WP had them.
Before getting yourself worked up try and understand what these exercises are.
As part of the fun of the political process every nation/alliance will complain about the other sides military exercises.
During the Cold War though, for some of the exercises they (NATO and WP) would allow "observers" from neutral nations or even from the other side to observe the exercises.
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i wonder if kim will say that firing 4 missiles into international waters off guam is simply a military exercise as well?
Missiles aren't all that accurate. If any of them ended up in the US waters then that's tantamount to an act of (undeclared)war.
If NK does fire off 4 missiles, it would be to show that they can guide them with precision and they are not bluffing.
I think they already have said it is just a missile test/exercise but a little more pointed one.
The danger with this one is if the missiles miss their intended target (the open ocean) and land in Guam. I think during the Cold War you did not see the US and USSR running their missile tests so close to each other's territory for obvious reasons.