That's the thing.. at some point you're going to shoot one close enough that the military can't tell if it's a test or a "test" and starts returning fire
North Korea
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yeah that is where using the explanation of "it's just an exercise" would lose it's credibility.
A side note, there was just a story a day or two ago about the Russian's using their right under the "Open Skies Treaty" to fly some unarmed aircraft over areas around DC. While some idiots in the press tried to play it up, the response from the military and State Dept was of course that the Russians were well within their right, they had followed all the procedures required and it was no big deal at all. This shows the proper way to react to things that are not provocations at all.
North Korea have just officially said Trump's words and actions now have put the entire world on the brink of nuclear war.
This just isn't funny at all now. I don't give a flying feck if anyone says nothing will come of this, it shouldn't even be happening in the first place. The people of the world should not have to live in fear because two people are holding the rest of us all to hostage and making threats about using nuclear weapons on each other. It's irresponsible, reckless behaviour from both of them and to be honest, I don't know which one is worse at the moment, but neither of them should be allowed to threaten something so serious, so brazenly.
All because two seriously unstable and incredibly insecure feckwits want to have a public dick measuring contest, neither giving a flying feck about the consequences or how much fear, worry and unrest all this is causing, or could cause if it continues to escalate.
This just isn't funny at all now. I don't give a flying feck if anyone says nothing will come of this, it shouldn't even be happening in the first place. The people of the world should not have to live in fear because two people are holding the rest of us all to hostage and making threats about using nuclear weapons on each other. It's irresponsible, reckless behaviour from both of them and to be honest, I don't know which one is worse at the moment, but neither of them should be allowed to threaten something so serious, so brazenly.
All because two seriously unstable and incredibly insecure feckwits want to have a public dick measuring contest, neither giving a flying feck about the consequences or how much fear, worry and unrest all this is causing, or could cause if it continues to escalate.
100% right. Someone in the US needs to get this guy out of office, by whatever means necessary.
Problem is only way to get Kim and his government out of office is war. So stopping them from making threats is impossible.
Getting Trump out of office is also problematic and no guarantee that Pence will be any better. You could try to impeach him, but that will take some time and in the mean time he will keep tweeting away with stupid threats.
So much like the late 1950's and early 60's between the US and USSR. With each side making claims of burying the other, putting missiles in Turkey and Cuba, etc. Hopefully this war of words has the same sort of neither side nuking the other conclusion.
Where have you seen this?
Yup, and so does North Korea. Every single year they have a period of a month or so where they threaten the USA with attack. The only difference this year is that they may actually be capable of carrying the attack out. The point is though that every year Kim or his father have been pretty much completely ignored. They might have goaded a small reply, but very little was ever said about it and the press never really reported it as anything special. Rarely if ever has it been front page news. Now it is and I think the only reason it is, is because of Trump's reaction to it all.
Agreed, but just because we all want regime change doesn't mean it's right, or will happen. Look at Iraq & Afghanistan. Liberating isn't as easy as everyone likes to think it is, especially when that isn't always the true intention of the war in the first place (money, oil, defence contracts etc)
Kim is a despicable piece of shit and I agree strength is needed, but I also think he now has to be taken seriously and maybe concessions have to be made and negotiations need to start again. The only reason diplomacy has failed is because Kim refuses the terms presented to him. He does have a point because with a nuclear arsenal he kind of has to be taken more seriously. So the options are clear, either go in and take his nuclear power away from him, or try to negotiate BUT having to accept that concessions towards North Korea will have to be made. Look at the long game here. The trouble with Trump is that he's impulsive and a bully with absolutely no knowledge of anything, especially world politics. His erratic behaviour is playing in to Kim's hands perfectly. He needs to shut the feck up and let the adults deal with things because HE will only make things far worse. He IS making things far worse at the moment.
CNN just reported it about 30 minutes ago. I have yet to see it in print yet though.
Also, they are reporting about the fact China have said they remain neutral unless the USA strikes first.
Depressing viewing, I'm going to turn it off and put Game of Thrones on..... Oh. on second thoughts
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Trump should just keep his trap shut.
But that wont happen.
We can prepare to counter anything the fat twat in NK does. But just shut up.
But that wont happen.
We can prepare to counter anything the fat twat in NK does. But just shut up.
Deep breaths langster. While none of us trusts Trump and Kim, this type of statement could also very well just be rhetoric/posturing/fearmongering.
Surely Cuba was worse ?
I get the impression this is going to be the longest standoff since High Noon. China has said will only intervene in NK's favour if the US attacks first so NK would be totally alone if it started anything.
I get the impression this is going to be the longest standoff since High Noon. China has said will only intervene in NK's favour if the US attacks first so NK would be totally alone if it started anything.
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Yeah, I know mate. It's just irresponsible for people to be even talking like that. Posturing or not, it's reckless and completely uncalled for and some people will be genuinely frightened. "World on brink of nuclear war" real threat or not, is not something you should ever have to read on a fecking CNN and Fox News chyron.
Trump isn't the main concern here. He may be president but he can't suddenly start a war without the backing of congress and the generals. They are professional military men and whether you like Trump or not he will take their advice. Kimmy on the other hand.....well I suspect not one of his military men dare disagree with him. He's deliberately trying to provoke the USA/world in the hope than they'll give him the excuse to blow somewhere up. This is a man living in an alternate reality who is quite beside himself with excitement at the thought of being able to play with his new "big world leader" toys.
Seems like old times to me, having lived through a good part of the Cold War.
Actually he can legally by-pass congress.
Cuba wasn't worse. That was easily solved by the US agreeing to remove their intermediate range ballistic missiles from Turkey, which were the cause of 'crisis' in the first place.
Relates to the question of Presidential authority regarding preemptive strikes.
Cuba was bad because at that time there was no direct line for the US President to talk directly with the Soviet leader or vice versa. Add to it the proximity of forces and all it would take was a mistake, accident, misunderstanding a situation and boom goodbye people.
The world was within a whisker of nuclear annihilation at the hands of the two superpowers.
http://edition.cnn.com/US/9910/04/korea.brink/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/dec/05/northkorea
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-North-Korea-prepares-to-launch-missile.html
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2003/02/nkor-f08.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/07/north-korea-the-war-game/304029/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...e-brink/078e6a56-fc48-458d-a70e-33bc3d97cdf9/
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asi...t-the-DMZ-between-North-Korea-and-South-Korea
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/04/26/obama-reminds-north-korea-of-us-military-might.html
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/obama-visits-border-amid-n-korea-tensions.aspx?pageID=238&nid=16796
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/world/asia/president-obama-in-south-korea.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/dec/05/northkorea
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-North-Korea-prepares-to-launch-missile.html
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2003/02/nkor-f08.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/07/north-korea-the-war-game/304029/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...e-brink/078e6a56-fc48-458d-a70e-33bc3d97cdf9/
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asi...t-the-DMZ-between-North-Korea-and-South-Korea
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/04/26/obama-reminds-north-korea-of-us-military-might.html
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/obama-visits-border-amid-n-korea-tensions.aspx?pageID=238&nid=16796
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/world/asia/president-obama-in-south-korea.html
I have to disagree entirely. It has routinely been front-page news and often seemed far more serious than it does right now, especially that period when the North sank a South Korean ship.
http://www.bbc.com/news/10129703
The use of language like "might" "power" "force" "fury" is nothing new whatsoever. It only seems novel because it's coming out of Trump's mouth. I agree that Trump isn't best placed to handle these things, however, I can't agree that Trump is ever going to be acting solo in these matters, or that Trump's rhetoric is a departure from anything we've seen over the last two decades (it's just more brash and unpolished).
They did land one only a few km outside Russian waters a few months ago... so perhaps in hindsight that was testing accuracy for something like this so they are 99.999999% sure they can splashdown in international waters
In theory. Not in practice. I've said that a lot, but it's entirely true. Trump would face a coup quicker than Kim if he tried to launch nukes and the military/intelligence top brass deemed it unnecessary and dangerous to the state.
they also are pretty hemmed in, in terms of launching a missile into a sea area unless they go over Japan, pretty much any place their missile lands will be somewhat close to another nation's territory.
Red Defense only mentioned starting a war, he did not use the term nuclear war. So yes the President can authorize the use of military force without congressional approval.
I must be the only one to imagine China is not a mere bystander in all this. Any kind of war with the US on its doorstep would be enormous if only because of refugees. I wonder if there have there been any Chinese troop movements in the NK frontier zone ? Also, China is the major danger for the US in the whole area - wouldn't China be taking all this on board and exploiting this as a test of the US ? Couldn't Trump be implying - look at this and imagine what we'd do to you to defend our interests ?
Pretty sure China gets talked about in this thread quite a bit.
I think it was mentioned in this thread that China just completed some military drills of their own in the seas around NK.
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Hasn't this happened to every new president though, they like to test the resolve of the new administration?
Kim? Trump? Krump?
Shoot me but I feel an urge to defend Trump slightly on this case. N. Korea has never slightly shown any signs of slowing down its military threat and antagonism of the west. Things were always going to escalate to where we are now and it is only going to get worse. Trump isn't helping sure, but I don't think we can pin this all on him.
There does seem to have been a shift in opinion in recent years that the N.K. problem is somehow the US's fault. It isn't, they are a threat to the world, perhaps the last great threat to the world militarily speaking. To let them develop the ability to drop nukes on the US is a risk I don't think we can afford to let happen.
There does seem to have been a shift in opinion in recent years that the N.K. problem is somehow the US's fault. It isn't, they are a threat to the world, perhaps the last great threat to the world militarily speaking. To let them develop the ability to drop nukes on the US is a risk I don't think we can afford to let happen.
It's hard to analyse North Korean motives because of that state's secrecy, but I don't think they're as far removed from reality as you'd assume. The target of their parades, tests and announcements/threats is probably split at least 50/50. Half to their own people over whom they want to project an image of state power, half to their neighboring states (SK, Japan, and China of late), whom they're very suspicious of.
There's also the point that attaining nuclear capacity has historically been the first step to wider recognition within the world community, that recognition being that once a state is armed with nukes, you have to treat it with far more caution/respect. Their logic is that they've developed nuclear weapons and so, due to their location (bordering two superpowers, one key American ally, and very close to another key American ally), they'll eventually receive a better deal. That could be an end of sanctions, increased trade, and so on. But they're definitely playing the long game and have been since the 80s in terms of nukes.
It's an anomalous state owing to its authoritarian nature and also the inability/unwillingness of other states to topple it. I seriously doubt any influential military figures within North Korea (including Kim) want a war of any sort. It's the only scenario in which they lose everything and gain nothing. The same is true of the US, though the US would lose far less (theoretically, if China and Russia were willing to acquiesce, or actively engage) as it can't be destroyed by NK, it would still put the world into a state of potential doomsday. The most economically important region in the world grind to a halt, world markets would crash, and everyone would lose trillions. It would make both the crash of '08 and the Great Depression seem quaint in hindsight.
Thankfully, it's incredibly unlikely to ever happen.
I understand this line of thinking but literally everything they do suggests they do want a war, they just don't want to fire the first shots... Although that may change by mid august!
Oh they like to talk big and always have, so not sure how much they really want a war. Though they have committed several actions over the years that they were lucky did not get them in another. Sinking a ROK ship. Trying to blow up the ROK President. Stuff like that. Calmer heads on the southern side of the DMZ prevailed though.
I'd like to think the waning potential of a good post-Brexit deal wouldn't be worth the cost of supporting American in a mental nuclear war. But knowing the kind of people who voted for it, I'm fast resigning myself to the likelihood that London will be the first auxiliary allied City destroyed in the oncoming storm.
Anyone know how much lead lined fridges are on Amazon?
Anyone know how much lead lined fridges are on Amazon?
As long as things don't go full MAD, you should be fine.
Just convert a lead lined coffin.
I reckon NK like to poke and prod any time a new president comes into power in the hope they are the first to retaliate with force. That way China steps in and fecks off the US and NK gets to use its new found power legitimately.
Into a fridge?
I feel a coffin will be less easy to utilise, not to mention a tad more conspicuous in my South London basement flat. It would admittedly be a fine conversation piece in the lead up to the final days, of course.
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Talking of coups...although I do believe this whole thing is thoroughly firing up Kimmy I doubt that it is firing up his generals/military to the same extent. Whilst the great leader may be convinced that he's invincible, the reality of the situation NK are in may be viewed very differently by his advisors.
It just takes a few of them to see sense........
Talking of coups...although I do believe this whole thing is thoroughly firing up Kimmy I doubt that it is firing up his generals/military to the same extent. Whilst the great leader may be convinced that he's invincible, the reality of the situation NK are in may be viewed very differently by his advisors.
It just takes a few of them to see sense........
There is more chance of a coup at the whitehouse.
Anyway, according to the guardian, Xi Jinping has phoned trump and told him to shut the feck up.
We will see what happens next.
I'm guessing that at the point china is getting involved enough to call dorito mussolini, someone at the whitehouse is going to make sure he does shut the feck up.
Who? He fired anyone who tries to tell him he's wrong. The best hope is that someone with some sense can manipulate him into changing his mind by thinking it is his own idea.