Interesting take on things. I reckon you might be right.
Is it fair to worship Guardiola at this point? | The Ball Did It
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Interesting take on things. I reckon you might be right.
Buying big lads who can play is quite helpful in the Premier League. Jose's pragmatic enough to see that. Pep wants to win with midgets.
Jose used Ozil and Di Maria at Madrid. He also didn't have anyone taller than Xabi Alonso in his midfield. Jose can be flexible to his circumstances. Pep? Less so.
I think Guardiola lacks the versatility to really succeed in the PL
Far from truth.
No, we must never speak ill about St. Pep Inventor of Football or else Barca fans and his other acolytes will tell us about how he was crafted from god's left nut.
He does look like he could crack at any moment. Thank god for his sakes he's not up against Fergie!
Team looks disjointed - and it's only 3 games but they looked the same for large parts of last season too. Loads of talent but they haven't found the right formula. If/when they do they'll be frightening, but at this point it looks possible that might not get there.
Wouldn't want to back them for the title at the moment.
And I'm sure it's massive amounts of bias showing through but he was never this much of a toss-pot before, was he?
Team looks disjointed - and it's only 3 games but they looked the same for large parts of last season too. Loads of talent but they haven't found the right formula. If/when they do they'll be frightening, but at this point it looks possible that might not get there.
Wouldn't want to back them for the title at the moment.
And I'm sure it's massive amounts of bias showing through but he was never this much of a toss-pot before, was he?
Agree, shame about the last minute winner, not too bothered about the 3 points at this stage but I think had they drawn or lost he might have been one more bad result away from a complete meltdown.
No "cnut" option?
He's played with big players at every team he's been at. Khedira is 6cm taller than Alonso, his first choice midfield partnership. Özil and Di María are both 1.80+ so you've got four above average height guys there in the central third. Then three tall, strong guys in Higuaín, Benzema and Cristiano up front. Marcelo was the only average height or below guy in the starting team and he's very powerful.
Mourinho's philosophy is essentially the same at every club he's been at. Yes, he adapts depending on the strength of the opposition, but he still has the same fundamental approach to the game he had in his first spell at Chelsea. Guardiola is no more or less attached to his philosophy than Mourinho, it's just that his is a riskier style of play and people just love to cut down a clever dick when he makes a mistake.
It was interesting that while Guardiola was acting unhinged on the touchline, City's players maintained patient and measured build up even in the 97th minute, leading to their goal.
I stand corrected on the facts.
If you accept Mou has had a consistent philosophy since he left Portugal, then it's arguable that way is better at winning than any other. Certainly in England.
My fundamental point is Pep should see the idiosyncrasies of English football. He brought back Yaya last season for a point. His lack of flexibility however means he can't do what logically would make it easier for City to win. As a United fan that makes me happy.
You might be onto something. Excellent thoughts.
Well their top, so that's something lol
Can't stand him - never could to be honest.
He has always been acting like that (especially in his last 2 years at Bayern) and I really hope he fails. However, it is way too early to judge him/Citeh. If we draw tonight we will just have as many points as them and nobody will care how those points were achieved at the end of the season. We should focus on ourselves and hope that they won't be as lucky as today.
He has always been acting like that (especially in his last 2 years at Bayern) and I really hope he fails. However, it is way too early to judge him/Citeh. If we draw tonight we will just have as many points as them and nobody will care how those points were achieved at the end of the season. We should focus on ourselves and hope that they won't be as lucky as today.
Watching Rijkaard, pep, Enrique win things at Barcelona like it's no tomorrow made me realise that they have a strong foundation.
Was not remotely surprised to see him struggle at bayern where he couldn't adapt to that teams foundations and now city; who have a limited foundation except for a cheque book.
At no point do I think he is an overrated manager but definitely lucky to be In the right place at the right time at Barcelona.
Was not remotely surprised to see him struggle at bayern where he couldn't adapt to that teams foundations and now city; who have a limited foundation except for a cheque book.
At no point do I think he is an overrated manager but definitely lucky to be In the right place at the right time at Barcelona.
Most of the time Fernandinho gets the ball from one of the CBs and someone pressures him from behind he loses the ball and there's a big chance for the other team. Everytime it happens it just reminds me of the 7-1 where he was shit and that happened a bunch of times. They need an upgrade there. The rest of the team is good enough to win the title yet they're currently not performing like a team capable of winning the title. There's a bunch of new players so like every manager Pep deserves time but things aren't looking good right now.
The worst part about this City team is everytime they're forced to defend they look absolutely terrible, there's no organization whatsoever there.
The worst part about this City team is everytime they're forced to defend they look absolutely terrible, there's no organization whatsoever there.
I don't think he has been found out or that the rest of the world has caught up.
At Barca he had Messi, who at the time was at the peak of his powers. Best player in the World, etc. The rest of the team were also damn good. All he had to do was beat Madrid.
At Bayern, he had a team which was the best in the league, by far. When he played in the CL, he was good...but nothing special.
Then at MCFC - a league which is ultra competitive, where he does not have the best players in the World at his disposal. This resulted in him finishing in 4th. And he is basically continuing this season, as he finished last season.
If he went back to Barca this Summer, he'll stand a very good chance of winning the league. And at worst, will finish 2nd, which is in-line with what he was doing a few years ago.
Most people don't quite understand how difficult the EPL is - Guardiola is included in this, when he famously said that the EPL is not difficult. At the end of the season, he would later admit that had he been at another top club, he'd have been fired.
In the Jose vs Pep category, I don't think it's useful to say that either has proven themselves better, just than Mourinho is better suited to the PL and Guardiola to La Liga.
If a football team is like a raft made of tyres and planks, La Liga lets you build your raft on the shore before you have to actually float it onto the water. The PL requires you to build the raft on the water in the middle of a storm. So you can build a much better raft in La Liga, but that doesn't necessarily amount to a greater achievement.
If a football team is like a raft made of tyres and planks, La Liga lets you build your raft on the shore before you have to actually float it onto the water. The PL requires you to build the raft on the water in the middle of a storm. So you can build a much better raft in La Liga, but that doesn't necessarily amount to a greater achievement.
Talking to a City fan this week who is no fan of Pep at all. He's too cosmopolitan, too hipster, dancing out there on the touchline in his skin tight suit pants and adidas sneakers like a neurotic elf. He is isolating the traditional 'pie and pint' City fan. They are confused as to why 'the bestest coach ever' makes such odd decisions and they are not seeing the promised land.
It was fair to criticize him back in January, he's shit.
Spot on. A great example is Wenger, who was far more of a pragmatist in his early days in England but morphed into an ideologue and has been left behind for the better part of a decade.
Put him in charge of Hull City and see if they will be winning leagues anytime soon. Over rated manager, I could win the German league myself if I was manager of Bayern München.
The football, the interviews and even the talk here gives me this bizarre VanGaalian feel. I said it in the bluemoon thread.
He can't build a balanced roster and it will be his downfall.
His fanbase is deluded to extreme levels. Pep himself proved he's nowhere near the greatest managers of his era in Munich, no CL win with this squad is a failure. Last year nothing with City, if he finishes another season empty handed I'm hoping for a meltdown. Decent manager, overrated to enormous levels.
interesting. So they are 'one idea wonders' who can't evolve to stay ahead like SAF, Ancelotti? Victims of the S curve theory.
He is vastly overrated and Im very happy this is being properly recognized now.
I still think he got way too much credit for his Barcelona achievements, as Frank Rijkaard did most of the heavy lifting to provide the platform which he exploited. Plus, how hard can it be when you have Messi, Xavi and Iniesta and other world class players at your disposal?
I still think he got way too much credit for his Barcelona achievements, as Frank Rijkaard did most of the heavy lifting to provide the platform which he exploited. Plus, how hard can it be when you have Messi, Xavi and Iniesta and other world class players at your disposal?
All to play for in my opinion.
Lots of knee jerk reactions here only a few weeks into the season. City needed major surgery, even last year and he's now had the chance to bring in his own players so should rightly be judged on how he does going forward.
He seems to be over complicating it, but if it clicks then it might come good. I'm personally unsure whether the style he wants to play will work here but I suppose time will tell. Far too early to write him, or City off at this stage. A different style will take time to bed in.
Looks like this year it could be head to head with Mourinho - a manager with plenty of PL experience building a big, strong, traditionally 'PL' side. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out. There's huge pressure on him.
Lots of knee jerk reactions here only a few weeks into the season. City needed major surgery, even last year and he's now had the chance to bring in his own players so should rightly be judged on how he does going forward.
He seems to be over complicating it, but if it clicks then it might come good. I'm personally unsure whether the style he wants to play will work here but I suppose time will tell. Far too early to write him, or City off at this stage. A different style will take time to bed in.
Looks like this year it could be head to head with Mourinho - a manager with plenty of PL experience building a big, strong, traditionally 'PL' side. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out. There's huge pressure on him.
Very good point. This is why a pragmatic manager has a better chance of having a long successful managerial career, aka see sir alex, ancelotti and even jose can join this list as he is the king of pragmatism.
Pep has to learn to adapt. The thing he had in barca was special and he and his players both flourished in that but he won't get another generation of footballers like that. At Bayern, it didn't matter as it was a one horse race where he had to win. His brand of football started to look a bit stale but because he was winning , he got less criticism.But now because of his failure to evolve, he is no longer able to replicate his last success. Note, he will still do well but if he fails to make a mark after spending so much, major questions will be asked from him.
Yes it may be a knee jerk reaction of judging him so soon but trust me if he doesn't win the league this season then it will be extremely tough for him to win it next year. Pep like jose has also never stayed for that long in one club and pep is already starting to get frustrated. A couple of defeat here and there could make him go crazy.
Before the season started I expected city to win the league ( I still pick them as my favourites to win it) but the start has hardly been impressive. They look worse than last season. He has replaced average players with quality but now his squad looks very unbalanced. He doesn't know what his best side is. Maybe eventually he will have his best 11 but it may be too late by then.
From my understanding they love him. He changed the whole club and reinvented the way they play into a style which gave them a strong identity. It was just unlucky for him he joined on the back of a treble winning season. He certainly did a lot better than Ancelotti is doing now he is relatively underperforming with the quality at Bayern.
I think Pep underestimated how much of a drop in quality City are from Bayern. David Silva probably being the only one in that whole squad who fits a Pep system in terms of quality and style.
I had City down as winning the league comfortably this season, now I'm not at all sure they'll even be challenging come Feb/March - looks like they're going to drop oodles of points and could have already quite easily.
If another manager came in tomorrow, with their squad I'd instantly have them as title winners again. Which pretty much tells me I think the issue isn't with the team, it's the manager. As sad as it is to admit, Mournino would have that team fighting on all fronts and cantering to a title, Pep can barely get them beating minnows and scraping top 4.
But hey, still a few days left of the window for him to throw another few dozen million around so you never know.
If another manager came in tomorrow, with their squad I'd instantly have them as title winners again. Which pretty much tells me I think the issue isn't with the team, it's the manager. As sad as it is to admit, Mournino would have that team fighting on all fronts and cantering to a title, Pep can barely get them beating minnows and scraping top 4.
But hey, still a few days left of the window for him to throw another few dozen million around so you never know.
Criticism of him this season is over the top. I bet the same people were on Contes back this time last year and Pep won like 10 games in a row last season. It meant shit come May.
Let's wait and see between now and the new year before going over the top and saying he's shit.
Let's wait and see between now and the new year before going over the top and saying he's shit.
He's got every chance to win the league with city, they've got a great squad and he's at least a good manager.
That said, his tenure over here in particular is showing he's not the miracle manager who can take any team to the promised land, as his rather irritating fanboys would have had you believe, which is probably why he's catching a lot of shite. He's not the messiah, just a... etc.
Also, weird, awkward and twitchy.
That said, his tenure over here in particular is showing he's not the miracle manager who can take any team to the promised land, as his rather irritating fanboys would have had you believe, which is probably why he's catching a lot of shite. He's not the messiah, just a... etc.
Also, weird, awkward and twitchy.
I actually think Ancelloti has an aging team. And Pep did take over a treble winning team, but still didn't do much in Europe with a very good team in their prime.
I'm surprised to hear Bayern fans think so highly of him.
He is a great coach.
Previously has been blessed with the best players/squads in the world.
Now with blank cheque in hand and a squad to shape in his image, is tryna achieve datt 'biggest footballing hipster cnut in history' tag.
Will end up with egg on his face, but it'll still be 'the best day' of his life. Will be 'so so happy' *scratch head itch face*
Previously has been blessed with the best players/squads in the world.
Now with blank cheque in hand and a squad to shape in his image, is tryna achieve datt 'biggest footballing hipster cnut in history' tag.
Will end up with egg on his face, but it'll still be 'the best day' of his life. Will be 'so so happy' *scratch head itch face*
Agree. I don't think Pep left that team with a surplus of young talent. Ancelotti doesn't have to totally overhaul the squad or face an incredibly difficult rebuild, but I'd argue that the squad Pep inherited is better than the one he left for Ancelotti.
Not to derail the thread, but I think his struggles highlight Mourniho's successes. Even if he wasn't our manager I'd say the same.
Pep is struggling in the PL, but we've seen Mourinho ruthlessly dominate 3 different leagues now.
Having said that, I do think Pep is overly reliant on highly technical players across all positions. We've seen in the Prem that that style just does not work, you need at least a few big physical lads in order to win the league.
Pep is struggling in the PL, but we've seen Mourinho ruthlessly dominate 3 different leagues now.
Having said that, I do think Pep is overly reliant on highly technical players across all positions. We've seen in the Prem that that style just does not work, you need at least a few big physical lads in order to win the league.
Fraudiola! 
He has been here for a season and 3 games so far
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