Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[devilish]

Meanwhile global britain's foreign Secretary is busy building close and bold ties with one of the richest countries in africa. Im quite close to the libyans myself and i assure you, no one hold grudges better then our neighbours

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-sirte-isis-civil-war-response-a7983171.html

 

[devilish]

Yes...Agreed...Probably still are, but AT LAST are trying to do what the majority in the UK said they wanted to happen....

If only they ( and the all the other politicos - left / right, UK / EU / USA ) would LISTEN to what their electorates want instead of driving on with their own and the parties' agenda and dogma, then we wouldn't have the EU the way it now is ; BREXIT wouldn't have even been a topic : UKIP wouldn't exist ; 25% of the electorate here wouldn't have felt the need to vote for Le Pen in the first ballot ; Wilders would still be playing for PSV Reserves, etc, etc....

I am not a big fan of people are stupid sort of thing. However from my experience in politics im well aware of how easy ot is to demonise someone. Politicians love blaming others for their mistakes and an institution abroad is quite an easy target

 

[I Believe]

Britain were never in the second division of the EU, they were at the forefront

Paul, Paul, there is non so blind as those who won't see...!
Britain has never been in the first division of the EU, we might have had some sway when it was the Common Market and only eight or nine countries, we might even have had some limited influence when it moved to being the EEC with twelve, but since the other 16 countries joined and it became the EU and the euro zone came into being, from then on we have not had any influence what so ever, by the time Cameron arrived we were in danger of dropping into the third division in the EU and... for good measure being the only member in that division!

We have to come out of the EU there is no other way! Yes, perhaps there were some people voting leave for the wrong reasons, I would argue there were even more voting remain for the wrong reason. The fact that Mrs T was able to get a rebate, was a tacit admission by the EU powers that they had been duping us on our subs payments for years. Jacque Delor was the main architect of the 'keep Britain in its place', movement and his spirit lives on through Juncker. We have been tolerated in the EU, simply because we 'bring more and take less' and our politicians were so weak and untruthful that the EU could practically tell us to 'feck off' and they did, time and time again. The MEP's are the main part of the gravy train and are required to do nothing only approve, or just occasionally amend what the unelected Commission has already decided to do.

It is possible Britain might crash out of the EU and its good to hear the Government is making contingency plans; however old cynic that I am I suspect a compromise will be found, maybe at the eleventh hour of the additional 2 year transition period, Britain will get what it wants or the majority of what it wants, but will have to pay a massive price, not much will appear above the Brexit water line, maybe around £20B, but underneath, the amount of money committed will keep the EU afloat until all the present politicians, in Britain and in the EU, have left the stage.
Job done...until they write their memoirs.

 

[devilish]

Paul, Paul, there is non so blind as those who won't see...!
Britain has never been in the first division of the EU, we might have had some sway when it was the Common Market and only eight or nine countries, we might even have had some limited influence when it moved to being the EEC with twelve, but since the other 16 countries joined and it became the EU and the euro zone came into being, from then on we have not had any influence what so ever, by the time Cameron arrived we were in danger of dropping into the third division in the EU and... for good measure being the only member in that division!

We have to come out of the EU there is no other way! Yes, perhaps there were some people voting leave for the wrong reasons, I would argue there were even more voting remain for the wrong reason. The fact that Mrs T was able to get a rebate, was a tacit admission by the EU powers that they had been duping us on our subs payments for years. Jacque Delor was the main architect of the 'keep Britain in its place', movement and his spirit lives on through Juncker. We have been tolerated in the EU, simply because we 'bring more and take less' and our politicians were so weak and untruthful that the EU could practically tell us to 'feck off' and they did, time and time again. The MEP's are the main part of the gravy train and are required to do nothing only approve, or just occasionally amend what the unelected Commission has already decided to do.

It is possible Britain might crash out of the EU and its good to hear the Government is making contingency plans; however old cynic that I am I suspect a compromise will be found, maybe at the eleventh hour of the additional 2 year transition period, Britain will get what it wants or the majority of what it wants, but will have to pay a massive price, not much will appear above the Brexit water line, maybe around £20B, but underneath, the amount of money committed will keep the EU afloat until all the present politicians, in Britain and in the EU, have left the stage.
Job done...until they write their memoirs.

Massive sums, acceptance of the ecj sovreignity and FOM.

 

[I Believe]

Massive sums

Will not appear above the Brexit line but will exist!

acceptance of the ecj sovreignity and FOM

Some sort of compromise on ecj maybe, but the other two Britain gets what it wants, otherwise no 'under the counter' payments.

Both May and Juncker will have to fall on their swords as a result of this compromise, if the rest are lucky this will be the only 'blood-letting'

 

[devilish]

Will not appear above the Brexit line but will exist!



Some sort of compromise on ecj maybe, but the other two Britain gets what it wants, otherwise no 'under the counter' payments.

Both May and Juncker will have to fall on their swords as a result of this compromise, if the rest are lucky this will be the only 'blood-letting'

I think the EU will dig its heels to safeguard the union integrity while the tory party will refuse to concede to every demand the eu will ask. Hence why they wont go past a transitional deal which would be followed by a GE and jeremy c going into government.

Once JC is in government then the UK will become an EEA member

 

[I Believe]

I think the EU will dig its heels to safeguard the union integrity

Yes, indeed, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"

while the tory party will refuse to concede to every demand the eu will ask

Would like to think your right on this, but the Heseltine's and Clarke's may cause a wobble, enough to unsteady the good ship Brexit!

Hence why they wont go past a transitional deal which would be followed by a GE and jeremy c going into government.

You've been reading those fairy tale books again haven't you?

Once JC is in government then the UK will become an EEA member

Hhm...mm! Advanced ' Fairy Tale' reading, I'm quite impressed!

 

[devilish]

Yes, indeed, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"



Would like to think your right on this, but the Heseltine's and Clarke's may cause a wobble, enough to unsteady the good ship Brexit!



You've been reading those fairy tale books again haven't you?



Hhm...mm! Advanced ' Fairy Tale' reading, I'm quite impressed!

I dont think that getting rid of an incompetent government who provided 5 years of blunders and diplomatic incidents is fairy tales stuff especially since the uk are in this mess solely thanks to them and their lies

If JC wants unrestricted access to the single market then its only fair to think he will go to either an EEC or EFTA agreement

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Paul, Paul, there is non so blind as those who won't see...!
Britain has never been in the first division of the EU, we might have had some sway when it was the Common Market and only eight or nine countries, we might even have had some limited influence when it moved to being the EEC with twelve, but since the other 16 countries joined and it became the EU and the euro zone came into being, from then on we have not had any influence what so ever, by the time Cameron arrived we were in danger of dropping into the third division in the EU and... for good measure being the only member in that division!

We have to come out of the EU there is no other way! Yes, perhaps there were some people voting leave for the wrong reasons, I would argue there were even more voting remain for the wrong reason. The fact that Mrs T was able to get a rebate, was a tacit admission by the EU powers that they had been duping us on our subs payments for years. Jacque Delor was the main architect of the 'keep Britain in its place', movement and his spirit lives on through Juncker. We have been tolerated in the EU, simply because we 'bring more and take less' and our politicians were so weak and untruthful that the EU could practically tell us to 'feck off' and they did, time and time again. The MEP's are the main part of the gravy train and are required to do nothing only approve, or just occasionally amend what the unelected Commission has already decided to do.

It is possible Britain might crash out of the EU and its good to hear the Government is making contingency plans; however old cynic that I am I suspect a compromise will be found, maybe at the eleventh hour of the additional 2 year transition period, Britain will get what it wants or the majority of what it wants, but will have to pay a massive price, not much will appear above the Brexit water line, maybe around £20B, but underneath, the amount of money committed will keep the EU afloat until all the present politicians, in Britain and in the EU, have left the stage.
Job done...until they write their memoirs.

Sounds like paranoia to me, who is this person that teaches the Brexiters on here. Why are the Brexiters so obsessed with Juncker and don't understand how the EU works - why are they so concerned with the £10bn figure which they've already lost because of their actions so far, with far more to come. It makes no sense at all.

When the Uk is so much better off after they've left please come back and say I told you so. Think I've got a long wait.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Yes i just took the dog out and got rained on. Did not die and there was no grapes of wrath scenario when i got back. I knew i was taking little risk.

So if you drove your car and someone smashed into you, is it your fault that you drove the car even though you did nothing wrong.

But they still delivered brexit. Well done tories

Exactly, so voting for your MP who was against Brexit meant nothing

 

[fcbforever]

I really wonder how people like @I Believe stil lcan think the EU will somehow falter in the last hour How massively must you overstate the role of GB in the world? How far detached do you have to be to just ignroe the facts that the EU is making up a massive amount of exports for the UK and a far, far far smaller amount of the EU's exports are going to GB? It's right there to see even for the dumbest of people to see who needs the other most.

They are in a massively advatageous position, they can, right now, just wait for the Tories to kill themselves and just shrug their shoulders if Britain shouldn't take the deal. Freedom of movement or nothing, simple.

 

[JPRouve]

Some sort of compromise on ecj maybe, but the other two Britain gets what it wants, otherwise no 'under the counter' payments.

Both May and Juncker will have to fall on their swords as a result of this compromise, if the rest are lucky this will be the only 'blood-letting'

It's off topic but your inclusion of Juncker shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation, he is a subaltern. And on topic, the EU won't compromise on its pillars, if you don't like it stop wasting everyone's time and just leave.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's off topic but your inclusion of Juncker shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation, he is a subaltern.

I think you'll find he's the emperor.

Seriously though, as soon as someone mentions Junker in this tone you may as well just ignore them as they quite obviously have absolutely no idea how the EU works.

 

[JPRouve]

I think you'll find he's the emperor.

Seriously though, as soon as someone mentions Junker in this tone you may as well just ignore them as they quite obviously have absolutely no idea how the EU works.

I know but I really hope that they will listen at some point. It's for their own interest because they need to realize that Juncker would be a far better opponents than the real ones.

They need to ask themselves why would France, Germany, Italy, Spain and pretty much everyone else take that one sided deal? There is zero benefits from a collective stand point and there is zero benefits from an individual standpoint. So why?

 

[I Believe]

When the Uk is so much better off after they've left please come back and say I told you so.

Thanks for the invitation, will be sure to take you up on it!

 

[I Believe]

if you don't like it stop wasting everyone's time and just leave.

Oh if only our politicians had the 'b**s, its the 'drips' of left and right that have us in this mess now, pack up your bags David Davis and head on home, we can text Barnier all he needs to know ( imitating the last Labour message to the torie's) text reads " Monies gone and so have we"

 

[Full bodied red]

I am not a big fan of people are stupid sort of thing. However from my experience in politics im well aware of how easy ot is to demonise someone. Politicians love blaming others for their mistakes and an institution abroad is quite an easy target

Agree in part - too many politicos ( everywhere, not just the UK ) blame everything on someone else, never themselves or their party colleagues.

You've only got to listen to the Tories still going on about what they inherited from Brown and Darling after the 2008 Crash.

And agree with you 101% - the EU is a very easy target but, in my opinion, quite rightly so because, again in my opinion, has outgrown the purpose it was meant to serve, which was to permit Free Trade between its members. Not everyone wants to be part of a Project designed to produce a homogenous, centrally controlled Socialist Republic.

Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown never asked for, so were implicitly never given a mandate to drag the UK deeper and deeper into the Project without offering the UK the chance to say YES or NO, and if BREXIT goes wrong it is those four who should be pilloried - not last year's spivs and chancers like Johnstone, Gove and the others.

Here, in 2005 the Government, to their credit, had a referendum to ratify the new EU Constitution. The result was a 55% vote to reject it, ( more than voted BREXIT ) with both the Extreme Right and Extreme Left, and lots of inbetweens, calling for a NO vote. In the end, the Government ignored the result ( they asked the citizens and residents their opinon but then ignored them ) and just pressed on with its support for the new Constitution and obviously didn't risk a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon as the Irish did.

Read all about it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_European_Constitution_referendum,_2005

I have been anti-EU ( not pro-BREXIT, because as Tusk says, both sides will lose ) ever since. And is why I'll say again, the EU is now an even more deeply flawed but richer gravy train for too many European Politicians and their hangers-on because not enough of we ' little people ' were ever allowed to vote on whether what the EU has turned out to be is what we wanted it to be.

 

[Full bodied red]

I really wonder how people like @I Believe stil lcan think the EU will somehow falter in the last hour How massively must you overstate the role of GB in the world? How far detached do you have to be to just ignroe the facts that the EU is making up a massive amount of exports for the UK and a far, far far smaller amount of the EU's exports are going to GB? It's right there to see even for the dumbest of people to see who needs the other most.

They are in a massively advatageous position, they can, right now, just wait for the Tories to kill themselves and just shrug their shoulders if Britain shouldn't take the deal. Freedom of movement or nothing, simple.

For once I'll agree with you.

The UK should simply walk away - no budge from the EU's side, so no more nice guys, no more concessions, no transition period, no money beyond the agreed subs up to 2020 from the UK.

The EU's Member Governements might then start to ask the EU ' How the feck have Tusk, Barnier and the others got everyone to this lose-lose result ? '

 

[devilish]

Agree in part - too many politicos ( everywhere, not just the UK ) blame everything on someone else, never themselves or their party colleagues.

You've only got to listen to the Tories still going on about what they inherited from Brown and Darling after the 2008 Crash.

And agree with you 101% - the EU is a very easy target but, in my opinion, quite rightly so because, again in my opinion, has outgrown the purpose it was meant to serve, which was to permit Free Trade between its members. Not everyone wants to be part of a Project designed to produce a homogenous, centrally controlled Socialist Republic.

Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown never asked for, so were implicitly never given a mandate to drag the UK deeper and deeper into the Project without offering the UK the chance to say YES or NO, and if BREXIT goes wrong it is those four who should be pilloried - not last year's spivs and chancers like Johnstone, Gove and the others.

Here, in 2005 the Government, to their credit, had a referendum to ratify the new EU Constitution. The result was a 55% vote to reject it, ( more than voted BREXIT ) with both the Extreme Right and Extreme Left, and lots of inbetweens, calling for a NO vote. In the end, the Government ignored the result ( they asked the citizens and residents their opinon but then ignored them ) and just pressed on with its support for the new Constitution and obviously didn't risk a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon as the Irish did.

Read all about it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_European_Constitution_referendum,_2005

I have been anti-EU ( not pro-BREXIT, because as Tusk says, both sides will lose ) ever since. And is why I'll say again, the EU is now an even more deeply flawed but richer gravy train for too many European Politicians and their hangers-on because not enough of we ' little people ' were ever allowed to vote on whether what the EU has turned out to be is what we wanted it to be.

The EU has far less power then many think. However that's not something the UK government will ever admit. Its so easy to shift everything to the silent partner from failure to control immigration right for the most trivial of reasons.

Ultimately the reality is quite simple. The UK decided to leave the union despite the fact that the latter has been quite accommodating by giving it opt-outs and rebates. That's of course the UK choice which must be respected. There again once the line was crossed the Uk stopped being a member and it became a rival. It can't expect any favours let alone a cherry picking deal. Which of course is bad news for the UK as it really has very little to negotiate with.

 

[devilish]

For once I'll agree with you.

The UK should simply walk away - no budge from the EU's side, so no more nice guys, no more concessions, no transition period, no money beyond the agreed subs up to 2020 from the UK.

The EU's Member Governements might then start to ask the EU ' How the feck have Tusk, Barnier and the others got everyone to this lose-lose result ? '

Its the UK who bailed out Europe. No one kicked the UK out. So this lose-lose situation is all the UK doing.

Also its not very wise for global Britain to give the impression that it doesn't keep to its commitments especially since it will need the EU friendship to get a good deal at WTO level. If the UK's historical ally can drive a very hard bargain whenever it get pinched then imagine what an angry EU will do.

 

[Full bodied red]

Its the UK who left Europe. No one kicked the UK out.

Also its not very wise for global Britain to give the impression that it doesn't keep to its commitments especially since it will need the EU friendship to get a good deal at WTO level. If the UK's historical ally can drive a very hard bargain whenever it get pinched then imagine what an angry EU will do.

Never said they did.

And I don't really think the UK will need the EU's support for WTO membership.

Although I wouldn't put it past the EU to be sufficiently nasty and vindictive to do something like that....

 

[devilish]

Never said they did.

And I don't really think the UK will need the EU's support for WTO membership.

Although I wouldn't put it past the EU to be sufficiently nasty and vindictive to do something like that....

Well the WTO is a pack of wolves and you will need an unanimous vote to get good deal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html

Its also fascinating how the UK would see anything done by the EU as vindictive especially when they constantly close an eye whenever the US does the very same thing

Also why should the EU act nice towards a fickle nation who doesn't pay the bills?

 

[Full bodied red]

Its the UK who bailed out Europe. No one kicked the UK out. So this lose-lose situation is all the UK doing.

Also its not very wise for global Britain to give the impression that it doesn't keep to its commitments especially since it will need the EU friendship to get a good deal at WTO level. If the UK's historical ally can drive a very hard bargain whenever it get pinched then imagine what an angry EU will do.

No....Not all the UK's doing.

If the EU want to avoid a lose - lose, it's in their hands, beacuse, as everyone more or less agrees, the UK doesn't have much to bargain with except it has the money that the EU apparently wants and needs more than anything else at this stage.

 

[The Outsider]

Perhaps Britain should go to the Commonwealth countries to get their appetite for an alternative WTO, to allow in new countries that may otherwise get blocked (like possibly Catalonia with Spain) or old countries pulling out of trading areas such as the EU or Nafta.

 

[Full bodied red]

Well the WTO is a pack of wolves and you will need an unanimous vote to get good deal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html

Its also fascinating how the UK would see anything done by the EU as vindictive especially when they constantly close an eye whenever the US does the very same thing

Also why should the EU act nice towards a fickle nation who doesn't pay the bills?

Didn't say the UK would, I said that I would.

And like I said - agree to pay the bills contracted to and agreed to. It's difficult to actually pay a bill which has still not yet been presented and itemised although maybe you do that, personally, every time you go to a restaurant and agree to pay whatever the owner says you owe him without giving you an itemised bill.

 

[I Believe]

quite accommodating by giving it opt-outs and rebates.

The very fact Britain was given opt outs and rebates, proves that we were on the wrong bus and had been charged the wrong fare, not just once or twice but every time the CM/EEC/EU budgets were formed!

Unfortunately, someone (guess who) switched the name on the front of the bus whilst our politicians were busy falling over themselves to persuade the people of Britain that we could and we should remain on a bus that was not going to a destination that the British had asked to be taken let alone agreed to be taken and at the same time British politicians were also trying to tell the bus driver(s) where to go!

We have to get off this bus, its not going where 17.4m of us want and its costing us a fortune to be taken where we don't want to go! Our politicians have to stand up and be counted, there is a major political and economic debate to be had in Britain, but its not about Brexit, that ship has sailed!

 

[devilish]

No....Not all the UK's doing.

If the EU want to avoid a lose - lose, it's in their hands, beacuse, as everyone more or less agrees, the UK doesn't have much to bargain with except it has the money that the EU apparently wants and needs more than anything else at this stage.

Of course it is. The UK left Europe not Europe left the UK. We didn't vote for the UK to be kicked out of Europe, that's for sure.

Also the EU made it clear that the UK will only be expected the bills. Nothing more, nothing less. If the UK refuse to pay the bills it agreed upon in the first place than it cant really expect any favours whatsoever.

 

[devilish]

The very fact Britain was given opt outs and rebates, proves that we were on the wrong bus and had been charged the wrong fare, not just once or twice but every time the CM/EEC/EU budgets were formed!

Unfortunately, someone (guess who) switched the name on the front of the bus whilst our politicians were busy falling over themselves to persuade the people of Britain that we could and we should remain on a bus that was not going to a destination that the British had asked to be taken let alone agreed to be taken and at the same time British politicians were also trying to tell the bus driver(s) where to go!

We have to get off this bus, its not going where 17.4m of us want and its costing us a fortune to be taken where we don't want to go! Our politicians have to stand up and be counted, there is a major political and economic debate to be had in Britain, but its not about Brexit, that ship has sailed!

That's fair enough. There again it can't expect to cherry pick what it wants and what it doesn't want. I think that reality is slowly creeping in considering the way the UK is being treated not just by the EU but also by India and the US. Soon enough it will learn its place in the world and is far less prestigious than Brexiteers think

 

[Full bodied red]

Well the WTO is a pack of wolves and you will need an unanimous vote to get good deal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html

Its also fascinating how the UK would see anything done by the EU as vindictive especially when they constantly close an eye whenever the US does the very same thing

Also why should the EU act nice towards a fickle nation who doesn't pay the bills?

I take the Independent as seriously as you would take the DailyHatemail and Express. It's even worse than the Guardian and Nick Clegg.

It should rename itself The Daily Remoaner.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I take the Independent as seriously as you would take the DailyHatemail and Express. It's even worse than the Guardian and Nick Clegg.

It should rename itself The Daily Remoaner.

How about Lesley Batchelor, director general of the IOE? Should she be taken seriously considering the entire article is based on her interview?

 

[The Outsider]

That's fair enough. There again it can't expect to cherry pick what it wants and what it doesn't want. I think that reality is slowly creeping in considering the way the UK is being treated not just by the EU but also by India and the US. Soon enough it will learn its place in the world and is far less prestigious than Brexiteers think

Brexiteers is a broad bunch not all at looking for a different kind of global control, a lot just want control of immigration and to get on the housing ladder or their kids do.

 

[devilish]

I take the Independent as seriously as you would take the DailyHatemail and Express. It's even worse than the Guardian and Nick Clegg.

It should rename itself The Daily Remoaner.

http://www.politico.eu/article/forg...ghest-battleground-is-the-wto-uk-theresa-may/

 

[devilish]

Brexiteers is a broad bunch not all at looking for a different king of global control, a lot just want control of immigration and to get on the housing ladder or their kids do.

I've been saying for quite some time that xenophobia played a big part of Brexit. Im glad someone agrees with it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

@ title change.

 

[The Outsider]

@ title change.

Yes I thought I was won the wrong thread for a mo.

 

[The Outsider]

I've been saying for quite some time that xenophobia played a big part of Brexit. Im glad someone agrees with it.

Not sure wanting control of immigration when we have a housing crisis that is increasing every year is xenophobia.

 

[fcbforever]

For once I'll agree with you.

The UK should simply walk away - no budge from the EU's side, so no more nice guys, no more concessions, no transition period, no money beyond the agreed subs up to 2020 from the UK.

The EU's Member Governements might then start to ask the EU ' How the feck have Tusk, Barnier and the others got everyone to this lose-lose result ? '

The thing here is...a lot of countries won't notice.
The EU can easily pay for it's project without any impact on the average citizen, most countries don't export enough to the UK for it to have any economic impact. Why would you think anyone in, for example, Finland or Estonia would give a flying feck? The UK though....different kind of animal. I mean, outright refusing to pay for anything after 2020 would also kill quite a lot of EU projects in GB, it would definetively experience the economic impact as, as I have just pointed out, the EU is just a far bigger tradepartner for the UK than vice versa and last but not least, slowly the people will realize that India or anyone else might not be as happy about having some sort of free trade agreement with them as they thought they would be.

So I wonder, who will blame whom here and who will question which politicians?

 

[fcbforever]

Not sure wanting control of immigration when we have a housing crisis that is increasing every year is xenophobia.

The housing crisis does have a lot more reasons than immigration though. As far as I understand it, GB has quite a lot of very stupid laws in regards where you are allowed to build and under which circumstances. Because you know, you have to wonder why this problem isn't as big almost anywhere else with simmilar immigration numbers....

 

[devilish]

Not sure wanting control of immigration when we have a housing crisis that is increasing every year is xenophobia.

The areas that most voted for Brexit are the same areas that are less effected by immigration.

 

[Full bodied red]

How about Lesley Batchelor, director general of the IOE? Should she be taken seriously considering the entire article is based on her interview?

You can if you want....Although she isn't exactly neutral....