Not sure I want negative equity to add to my woes.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Just on this page alone leavers have been called decrepit, twat, fecking idiots, dumb. I don't come here often, but when I do it's always the same. Remainer prams and toys on the floor.
Just on this page alone leavers have been called decrepit, twat, fecking idiots, dumb. I don't come here often, but when I do it's always the same. Remainer prams and toys on the floor.
Because the problem is that whenever Remainers point out legitimate problems concerning Brexit, typically response don't actually address the issues at hand and instead divert the discussion onto something else. People are right to point out that this has massive ramifications that the government aren't handling well and saying "get over it," as if we're discussing a football match, isn't particularly helpful.
Just on this page alone leavers have been called decrepit, twat, fecking idiots, dumb. I don't come here often, but when I do it's always the same. Remainer prams and toys on the floor.
So what’s your hopes and dreams when it comes to Brexit? What do you think you will have achieved when all is said and done?
Just on this page alone leavers have been called decrepit, twat, fecking idiots, dumb. I don't come here often, but when I do it's always the same. Remainer prams and toys on the floor.
You come here to troll and post inane comments. You get exactly what you asked for. Get over it.
Many people said that the only outcome would be damage control, the EU custom union is better with the UK and vice versa. But that's scaremongering, EU meddling and remoaner nonsense.
What a lot of people do not accept is that there is too much that is unknown. There are no experts here who have all the answers, although some like to think they are.
If people accept WE ARE LEAVING, then discussions would be more fruitful. We'd be discussing the best outcome when we leave, instead of watching a mockfest from people who can't accept any possibility of a decent outcome and bright future.
We realise that article 50 has been triggered and that we are leaving. But given the task at hand, and the sheer incompetence of the people leading the negotiation it's hard to see anything other than abject failure. That's why a lot of are pointing out it's not too late to scrap the whole thing. But if you know something we don't, please enlighten us.
Yes, it is but unless I'm mistaken you would need either a new referendum to change the result or a party against leaving to win a majority in a general election.
How long would a new referendum voting remain ( if that was the new result and we all know how cocksure everyone was about the outcome of the first one) stand until it is challenged? Do we do it annually or every two years, five years every decade?
The second didn't happen and we have only just had one in which 80% of people voted for parties saying they would leave.
It is not clear to me that anyone has changed their mind and that isn't surprising given we haven't left.
I voted remain, I didn't agree with holding the referendum but I can't see how any sensible person can seriously suggest we don't leave the EU following the result.
You'd only need one referendum and anything other than a conservative majority. It won't be long until most leave voters die of old age. The referendum wasn't a blowout, it was incredibly close. I find the supposed finality of it astonishing.
You want a fruitful discussion, feel free to answer my question and I’ll be happy to entertain you with one:
But the problem is that the current government in charge of Brexit doesn't know what they're doing. They're a government currently barely sustaining itself on a slim deal with the DUP as they try to work their way through infighting, a widespread harassment scandal, a now-resigned cabinet minister meeting up with a foreign power and not doing so, and a Foreign Secretary who has endangered a British citizen abroad.
Any speech given by Theresa May on Brexit tends to fall into vague platitudes like saying we'll have an "imaginative and creative" Brexit because she's weak on actual, substantial comment.
I've accepted we're leaving the EU. But I'm more affirmed than ever that it's going to be a bad move because our politicians don't have a clue what they're doing. The "no deal" talk reeks of this; economically it'd be a suicidal move and yet it's being peddled as a possible political option. Why?
I want some actual talk of post-Brexit policy from the UK government. They want to reduce immigration; by how much will we be reducing EU migration? How is this likely to affect sectors like the NHS which largely depend on foreign workers coming in from the EU? How are we going to afford subsidising sectors which were previously helped significantly by the EU, when according to the government we are already strapped for cash? Why will £350m per week not be given to the NHS when this was a direct campaign promise made by the campaign who advocated for Brexit? If this is not going to be something that happens, then why was a campaign conducted in which the Leave campaign just made unsubstantiated bollocks up without repercussions?
If you can answer that, or are interested in proposing viable solutions to some of the above questions, then fair enough - I don't necessarily agree with your views, but there's interesting discussion to be had. But if you can't even begin to discuss those questions or don't want to then don't be baffled when people are bemused by your decision to treat the referendum like a football match.
I don't agree, and we don't have a conservative majority in this parliament but Labour committed to leaving in the general election anyway so I don't see how you think things would end in us staying even if they were the majority. The only party committed to a second referendum and staying in the EU were trounced at the last general election.
It's not just the big-ticket items like the NHS either. The agriculture industry is fecked, even if the government pulls its finger out and replaces EU subsidies, there's this: http://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/farm-tourism-jobs-cornwall-brexit-716108
Yeah, I was more just referring to a sort of generalised, larger point because I'm admittedly only partly aware of the multitude of sectors that are going to be affected by this. Which means, of course, that the questions I mentioned above could probably be multiplied endlessly with an absurd number of questions regarding a range of sectors.
Of course, I'm not expecting every Brexit voters to know the ins and outs of every single sector, but I'd like to think they'd be able to discuss their own vision for a post-Brexit Britain, and how they expect that Britain to succeed. Because the problem is that this just hasn't been done; the Leave campaign itself was less of a coherent movement and more the varying and changing wish-fulfillment fantasies of people who either weren't in power and were seeking it, or people who weren't in power (Farage) and knew they'd never be in a position to change anything.
I wasn't saying that labour would reverse course if they won tomorrow. Just that if we cancelled Brexit now (or in the near future through a referendum), there wouldn't be a 3rd or 4th under any party other than the conservatives. There's also little reason why we can't be given another referendum following the negotiations. Under the current timetable there are several months between the planned end of talks and implementation.
I reckon after Brexit only the old with their accumulated wealth will be able to afford healthy food and medical care. It's likely today's 60 year-olds might still be around when their grandchildren have worked themselves to their impecunious deaths.
Personally I've got all my wealth in foreign assets. The poorer Britain gets and the futher the pound sinks the wealthier I will be. It's worked quite well the last twelve months anyway.
My hope would be,
That we take our democracy more seriously in the future and think on occasion about other peoples lives and why they might disagree with our priorities and vote accordingly.
I know it is a forlorn hope these days.
Care to expand?
No, I think I made my point and I'm happy to leave it there.
I wonder how they'll stay healthy with EU nurses no longer changing their catheters.
No it’s just another one of those “I still have my reasons and I believe them and they are totally valid but I can’t tell you them” posts.
There’s literally not a single valid reason left other than isolationism. Every other proposed benefit has already been exposed either a bare faced lie or incredibly naive wishful thinking.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong and equally feel free to save your own time if your reply is going to be the usual evasive nonsense I’ve already dismissed above.
Millions of desperately poor British instead.
Maybe, as you hate the old so much, you could start some sort of guerilla action, and bomb the flu vaccine labs or something?
I don't hate the old, all power to them. I'm just pointing out their pending expiration and their recent bouts of self-harm in the voting booth. Even their party of choice is actively shortening their lives through the destruction of the NHS. While the wealthy are able to cut ahead of the queue, most older people aren't quite that lucky.
Your posts say otherwise.
I have a lot of sympathy with the idea that we should think about other people's lives and why they might disagree with our own priorities.
The problem with applying that to Brexit is that many of those who voted to leave are likely to be disproportionately impacted by the downsides of leaving. It's one thing to have different priorities, it's another to have the same priorities but to also fundamentally misunderstand the effect leaving will actually have.
For example, the reality is that many of those who voted for Brexit in the hope a brighter economic future are going to be worse off post-Brexit. A deeper understanding of the nuances of their perspective won't change that, nor will arguing that their opinions are equally valid.
The problem with applying that to Brexit is that many of those who voted to leave are likely to be disproportionately impacted by the downsides of leaving. It's one thing to have different priorities, it's another to have the same priorities but to also fundamentally misunderstand the effect leaving will actually have.
For example, the reality is that many of those who voted for Brexit in the hope a brighter economic future are going to be worse off post-Brexit. A deeper understanding of the nuances of their perspective won't change that, nor will arguing that their opinions are equally valid.
Did anyone have any inkling of the scale of this class/age/regional divide pre-Brexit?
It's seriously damaged my relationship with my mother, but more broadly, both sides are now so bitterly entrenched...Put Moyes in charge of the Tories.
It's seriously damaged my relationship with my mother, but more broadly, both sides are now so bitterly entrenched...Put Moyes in charge of the Tories.
WTF has that got to do with us leaving the EU?
One of the main reasons I left the UK in the early 90's.
Was more aware of the political divide really. One or two here might remember me banging on for the best part of a decade about Europe splitting the Tory party, but I admit I saw that as affecting them more than seeing it split the country as it has.
Maybe I should have thought about Labour a bit more as well. I'm sure Corbyn and his 'wing' are as anti-Europe as they ever were, but they can't say that following the referendum result, and less so with the EU championing it's worker's rights during the British Left's years of exile.
I knew Brexit would happen as soon as the referendum was called(One of the only reasons I voted Labour during Ed Milbands time was because Labour were not offering the chance of referendum). Even though I'm a white guy I did immigrate to this country and yeah it's was pretty clear that it was happening.
As for the divide I don't there are that many Pro Brexit or Pro Remain people out there(Both have a very loud present on social media and in national newspapers). Most people 1)don't really care and 2)are too busy to care. Where there is a divide is that I don't think people(Upper middle class to the very rich)know the sheer scale of both poverty and suffering in this country. There's all sorts of examples to show the scale(Although a walk around London or a visit to the local hospital will be more than enough)but there are two things that really stick out
The first is this -
The second is Grenfell Tower. A tragedy(Although personally I would call it murder)that you expect to have seen in a Victorian history book.
This country is in a very deep crisis .
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Davis saying the only choice before Parliament will be take the deal (if reached) or leave with no deal. Surely Parliament can simply amend the bill and vote in a clause that adds the 'go back and negotiate' option.
That sort of amendment most likely wont pass and if it did the Brexiters will more likely than not bring the govt. down.
This (although I'd widen that demographic to beyond just the upper middle class) I brought this up in this thread some time ago as I've spent many years working in some of the poorest and most disadvantaged communities in this country. The response, particularly from one particular poster, was appalling in it's disdain and contempt for those from these communities who voted, rightly or wrongly for change via Brexit. But then there is a rich seam of good old fashioned class hatred that runs deeply through the entire debate, this thread included, and for me this is the most poisonous legacy. I rarely venture in this thread here as it makes my blood boil.
Not quite accurate as 1.5m foreign citizens can vote in our elections and over 700k are from Ireland. I don't like it and when I complained was told it dates back to 1922 and is the same in every election.
With England the most densely populated country in Europe (except very small entities like Malta) we have had enough.
Had enough of what, specifically?
The people I know that voted for Brexit were in their 30s to 50s, I don't see them dying out too soon.
Only British citizens are allowed to vote.
Statistical outliers.
Who is we? I haven't had enough. As for 'densely populated' its not like the UK is a Blade Runner-like futuristic dystopia where everyone lives packed in like sardines ffs.
That’s anecdotal, the majority of 18 to 44 year olds voted remain, vice versa for 45+