I knew a Royal bodyguard who said Princess Margaret and her mates always swam nude in their pool, with the bodyguard and flunkies watching on.
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I knew a Royal bodyguard who said Princess Margaret and her mates always swam nude in their pool, with the bodyguard and flunkies watching on.
They were alright when they were younger, bit horsey though, long faces.
Smart move by Harry to marry a Yank, they are going to lap it up big time, like you say. Their very own Royal.
Hurrah, at last! thank you.
Paul you can dress it up anyway you want but the people who make the law in the EU are unelected, as you confirm they are appointed, the public has no direct say in who is nominated, who is selected, and to what post in the Commission.
MP's in the UK have to be first of all elected by the their constituents, before they can be appointed by the Prime Minister to cabinet, who (he/she) also has themselves to be elected as a MP. MP's have to retain communications with their constituents, normally through holding regular surgery's in their constituencies and/or via mail/email etc. in short they are in contact with the people who elected them and can be dismissed by them at Election times, possibly in future they can be 'recalled' if they fail to perform their duties.
Commissioners have no such duties to a direct electorate, they receive information from recognised EU bodies, which may be used to underpin policy, but they do not face any kind of selection process via the public, nor do they have to seek approval from the public at regular elections
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You bet they did, hammered the lid firmly down, no washing of dirty linen here and it took a further six years to bring Cresson to the ECJ and guess what it did?
MEP's can do little more than scrutinise, they cannot initiate policy and represent for many people the best seats on the EU gravy-train.
Yes, with your money
Like everywhere else. It's not as if the public was in a position to evaluate who is able to be the Energy, research and science commissioner. I know that I have no clue.
This would also be her second wedding, so conventionally it makes even less sense to make it extravagant.
I've read up a bit more and it turns out she's old, divorced, half-black, catholic and has a Welsh first name. Oh well, the yanks will still be grateful I suppose.
I'd basically agree with that, but there's been a few occasions when its been too extravagent for my tastes. The Queen spending feck all on the palaces and then landing the taxpayer with hundreds of millions of pounds of repairs would qualify. I think she's worked hard her whole life and I don't resent her being super rich even, but I'm fecked if we should be paying for maintenance on her houses (because lets be honest the guff about them being owned by the 'people' is ridiculous).
Then again a third of Britain is still owned by members of the aristocracy, so that's something I can be more pissed off about.
No, in the UK you can, via elections decide, if you want a particular MP, its then up to the PM to allocate cabinet briefs to their MP's. If after (usually five years) you feel the MP has not done a good job as constituency MP or Cabinet minister, you can vote them out.
In the EU (even if you knew what you were doing) you would not be able to influence who was put forward, for any post, as Commissioner.
Commissioners are the law makers in the EU and they are 'untouchable' as far as the public's concerned, they cannot be nominated, selected or removed directly by the public, that is why the EU is fundamentally an undemocratic organisation that will ultimately fail!
So like I said, you do not have a direct say on who becomes cabinet minister. You have a say on who nominates them, in the EU if you feel that your representative at the EU council hasn't done a good job you can, via elections, decide to not elect him again(see Cameron), you can also decide to not reelect your representative at the EU parliament who might have approved the nomination of the commissioner you don't like. Now, if I understand you well, your problem isn't that you can't nominate cabinet ministers but that you can't eventually punish them, I can understand that logic, but the problem here is that you somehow equate that to democracy and you also give it a strange importance particularly when you still don't have any say on who ultimately gets the job.
The EU like the UK and pretty much every other European country follows the principles of representative democracy, the democratic part is in the mandate that you gave to the head of states to represent you.
Edit: Also the EU is still under foreign policy.
Cabinet ministers are themselves elected though, saying that is 'equating to democracy' is a strange thing to say.
I think the difference might be that the British are used to civil servants providing information and ideas behind the scenes, and elected politicians then deciding, presenting and arguing their worth; whereas in the EU the civil servants seem to decide and present policy, albeit with the permission of elected representatives. They are both forms of democracy of course, just that the British is better.
I'm no expert I admit, I'm quite open to corrections.
Here's the best post Brexit strategy I have seen
Cabinet ministers are themselves elected though, saying that is 'equating to democracy' is a strange thing to say.
I think the difference might be that the British are used to civil servants providing information and ideas behind the scenes, and elected politicians then deciding, presenting and arguing their worth; whereas in the EU the civil servants seem to decide and present policy, albeit with the permission of elected representatives. They are both forms of democracy of course, just that the British is better.
I'm no expert I admit, I'm quite open to corrections.
The important part is the rest. Cabinet ministers are generally(almost exclusively) selected from a pool of elected representative but it's not a constitutional obligation, Lords can be selected too. But again that's not the important part in that conversation, you still don't have a say on who gets nominated and in reality you can't even systematically sanction them when they do a bad job unless they are in your constituency.
So in both cases you have a representative democracy where the elected head of states, with the approval of the representative organ, nominates cabinet ministers, that's the democratic part.
You could add a criteria that dictates that commissioners have to be nominated from the pool of MEPs, but it wouldn't change anything from the public point of view, I still won't be able to nominate the Energy commissioner and I can't sanction Le Pen.
Govt have refused to reveal anything in Brexit papers that is 'commercially sensitive' or 'damaging to negotiations'.
Looks like Bercow is going to do his nut. Wouldn't be surprised if he orders full unredacted publication within 48 hours.
Looks like Bercow is going to do his nut. Wouldn't be surprised if he orders full unredacted publication within 48 hours.
I think we've agreed that both are representative democracies, that bit is getting repetitive, but the 'wouldn't change anything' bit is wrong, a prime minister can dismiss a cabinet minister very easily, and if not the voters could elect someone else as MP. That might not matter to you I accept, but to others it is more democratic. It might simply be a case of preferring what you're used to of course.
But there is a big difference between undemocratic and more democratic, I only argued against the undemocratic claim. Also there is an important nuance in your statement, you only elect a small part of the MPs pool, if you are unhappy with a cabinet minister, you can only sanction him if he is in your constituency. And the European parliament can dismiss the commission, now the process being democratic makes it a lot more difficult than it is for a head of state to dismiss a cabinet minister.
Regarding the highlighted point you have completely described the appointment of cabinet ministers, thank you for finally admitting it, well almost.
You are doing it again though , you quote certain words and completely ignore any part that doesn't suit your agenda thus you are only able to quote a few words and take everything out of context, every time you quote someone you do the same thing and that is why I stopped discussing with you previously.
If you want to talk about about MPs and MEPs roles they are the same, I know you like your favourite MEP who is stealing a living at the EU parliament and somehow manages to have a radio show when maybe he should be concentrating on his constituents.
If you want to talk about scandals and corruption we can investigate much more recent British activity like Fox and Hunt who incidentally have made a comeback as cabinet ministers in different roles, you can't get rid of them can you and I can list dozens of others if you so wish.
So as you ignore my points because you don't like them I'll repeat them yet again and again and again...
Your point was that the Commissioners are the masters of the EU, already proved you wrong, got your fingers in your eyes, are you going la la la or singing Rule Britannia.
You've completely ignored the France and Germany point, is it because you admit you were not telling the truth or you don't understand about the demographics.
As for the PM sacking one of the cabinet ministers, why hasn't she sacked any of the 3 musketeers , they are clearly, and I'm being very clear on this, totally incompetent whether you are a Remainer or a Brexiter.
Who are the people on the EU gravy train, not Murdoch is it? No that's the UK.
Yeah, I think we're roughly agreed. Bear in mind that a in Britain a PM can quickly go as well of course, due to a challenge from within their own party, or by vote of no confidence from the house as a whole, neither of which would come as a surprise at this very moment actually.
Sorry Paul they are not! MP's make laws, MEPs merely scrutinize
You stopped discussing because you couldn't provide a valid different argument, you are doing it again now attacking my choice of quotes, because you cannot answer the point so you denigrate the presentation... pot, kettle..black!
The EU commissioners are not elected and it is these individuals who decide the EU policy and make the laws, you know it, I know it, everybody knows it
Just because you keep repeating something doesn't make it right Paul... even if you stamp your feet as well
So that's it is it? So really we should have in the EU not the unelected commissioners, deciding policy , laws etc. as now, but heads of state..sort of a Presidential component?.. think you will find not everyone agrees!
I don't understand that post.
We're getting bogged down in tumescent procedural technicalities.
Do the OBR's abject forward growth projections fill you with hope about our future free of the EU yoke?
How would you feel if the government cuts a a last minute EEA-style deal cos it realises Brexit is going to be so much more ruinous to the economy than anyone can imagine?
Good to see Amazon in the spotlight again, winning the race to the bottom, at least the eu will protect their workers rights, right?
I'd imagine they'd do a better job of protecting workers right than a Tory government who've gloated again and again about how Brexit will allow them to accelerate deregulation, yes.
Yes. Toilet breaks timed. 2 days off sick and you're on a pip. Have torys introduced that?
I know at least one warehouse that has a rule about people only being allowed to be sick 3 times in a year, even if its just a day. Pretty sure they'd get fecked in an employment tribunal, but then again the government got rid of most legal aid, so yay..
Just goes on to show that parity between employer and employee is a wet dream in theory of law.
Same in Europe, not exclusively british
Sorry Paul they are not! MP's make laws, MEPs merely scrutinize
You stopped discussing because you couldn't provide a valid different argument, you are doing it again now attacking my choice of quotes, because you cannot answer the point so you denigrate the presentation... pot, kettle..black!
The EU commissioners are not elected and it is these individuals who decide the EU policy and make the laws, you know it, I know it, everybody knows it
Just because you keep repeating something doesn't make it right Paul... even if you stamp your feet as well
I'll repeat the EU commissioners are selected by the 28 individual countries, not by Germany , not by France, they only select one each and the Commissioners from all different parties across the EU. The cabinet ministers are selected by the PM , not because they are good at that particular job, they are there to particularly help the PM in her personal power strategy, unlike in the EU where the Commissioners are answerable to the EU parliament , all controlled by one person, cabinet ministers all of them can only be fired by one person , the PM - no votes from the public not answerable to anyone other than her.
Do you realise how stupid it sounds when you say that 28 commissioners decide EU policy and make the laws with no recourse to anyone. You know it, anyone with any intelligence knows it it Josef Goveballs propaganda machine unfortunately Brexiters don't have the ability to distinguish truth from fantasy
You've ignored all the points yet again , you want to believe lies like all Brexiters do but as you know the whole Brexit idea is based on lies, can a Brexiter actually tell the truth.
Those risk assessments should be made available, hope the Brexiters haven't tried to conceal things from the general public, I mean why should they, after all Brexitland will be such a wonderful place surely they would be willing to proudly announce the superb future.
Comforting that the BoE says the banks could survive a massive drop in Sterling, double unemployment, GDP dropping by 4.7% and houses losing a third of their value, sounds like paradise if that happened.
Please point out where I have not given a valid argument, surely I will make an error at some point and even lose an argument , on the other hand maybe not.
You see if you don't lie you can't be found out, maybe one could make an honest error but then acknowledge that error.
All the Brexit lies will unravel one by one, sadly a lot of people will pay a hefty price for those lies.
Just because you keep repeating something doesn't make it right Paul... even if you stamp your feet as well
Oh what irony
. Respect to @Paul the Wolf and all the others, you have more patients than I could dream of having.Thank you Paul. I have really enjoyed reading your posts, Paul, and I agree with much of what you say.
You may have also noticed, Paul, how much I like to keep saying your name. I find it adds a slightly patronising tone to my comments.
Do you agree Paul? Paul?
I'm glad i'm not the only one this grates.
He's stopped calling everyone son at least.
Oh what irony
Fortunately I do have the patience of a saint, don't get wound up and never give up an argument because being the arrogant sod that I am I know I'm always rightIf he called me son , he'd have to be ancient.
Well he tried it several times with me which would put him in his very late 60s at best and nearer his 80s if he were actually my old man.
I'll have a guess at around 74 / 75 - maybe I'll win a prize if I'm right.
Like guess how many beans are in the jar? If we all guess how old @I Believe is can the closest one get a prize?
The prize can be the final say on exactly how democratic, or otherwise, the EU is.
The prize can be the final say on exactly how democratic, or otherwise, the EU is.
He types like a bleedin' kid though.
Although so do my parents and they're ancient so I guess it checks out.
Although so do my parents and they're ancient so I guess it checks out.
Nah, I'm still going with 23 year old Russian misinformation bot posting from his mothers basement in Macedonia. On the weekend he moonlights sexting as Busty Olga, 19, looking for western gentleman to marry.