"Blackface" Discussion

[Peyroteo]

Lol you’re sensationalising my point and you know it. If you don’t know why the Civil Rights Act of 1964 had to come about, then dayum.

I don't even know what that is.

I'm not sensationalising anything. You say it's people's responsability to be aware of historical context and connotations but it's simply impossible for anyone to be aware of historical context from so many different places.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

Wow sorry ok thanks

 

[villain]

Why would someone in Portugal research and know why the civil rights act of 1964 came to the US?

American culture is entrenched in every part of western society.
Be it through movies, media or music it’s there.

For anyone to not know who Martin Luther King is, or the I have a dream speech, or segregation even through nations such as South Africa, sorry I don’t buy it.

Especially Portugal? With their history of colonialism? Nah.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't even know what that is.

I'm not sensationalising anything. You say it's people's responsability to be aware of historical context and connotations but it's simply impossible for anyone to be aware of historical context from so many different places.

Honestly, it's not even needed. By itself there is nothing funny about a black skin and you should realize that something is off, you don't need to read about Civil Rights acts. Of course that's only in theory, in practice people don't really care.

 

[onemanarmy]

‘intention’ means feckal in this situation. It is your responsibility to be aware of historical context and connotations.

Personally, there’s not many things that annoy me more than an ignorant person who has no intention to understand cultural relevance (and structural discrimination) who’ll actively commit to something legitimately inflammatory and then fall back on that ignorance to frame it innocently.

feck off you dumb fecks

History doesn’t disappear cos you feel like you’re entitled to such a reality.

I really think it's unfair to call us dumb fecks. We have tried to explain extensively that the "blackface" is an unknown phenomenon on the mainland. People here in Belgium have never thought that painting your face was a racist thing, until the "Black Pete" discussion 2-3 years ago. This has been, and is being discussed in our country and steps are being taken. The cultural sensitivities are different in certain parts of the world. Things are changing for the better, as the world is becoming smaller and smaller, but you can't judge people by not knowing something that just isn't an issue in your culture.

 

[Ødegaard]

American culture is entrenched in every part of western society.
Be it through movies, media or music it’s there.

For anyone to not know who Martin Luther King is, or the I have a dream speech, or segregation even through nations such as South Africa, sorry I don’t buy it.

Especially Portugal? With their history of colonialism? Nah.

There is a big difference between having heard of Martin Luther King, his speech or that woman on the buss who stood up against racism and researching when and why certain stuff happened in the US.
Besides, most of us here in northern Norway heard about Martin Luther King and those kind of stuff during our primary school, meaning a lot just forget that kind of stuff. Not saying they cannot be reminded or know the topics are sensitive without that kind of specific knowledge. My point is that it was a ridiculous assumption that a guy in Portugal would know about the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The case is good, using terrible arguments isn't needed.
The world takes a interest in the US, but the world doesn't revolve around it. Some take special interest and will know more.

Norwegians used to be Vikings, but most of us don't know more about vikings than people who watch movies and tv-shows about them. Just because it is history doesn't mean most people will or should know about it. Certainly cannot be expected.

 

[villain]

There is a big difference between having heard of Martin Luther King, his speech or that woman on the buss who stood up against racism and researching when and why certain stuff happened in the US.
Besides, most of us here in northern Norway heard about Martin Luther King and those kind of stuff during our primary school, meaning a lot just forget that kind of stuff. Not saying they cannot be reminded or know the topics are sensitive without that kind of specific knowledge. My point is that it was a ridiculous assumption that a guy in Portugal would know about the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The case is good, using terrible arguments isn't needed.
The world takes a interest in the US, but the world doesn't revolve around it. Some take special interest and will know more.

Norwegians used to be Vikings, but most of us don't know more about vikings than people who watch movies and tv-shows about them. Just because it is history doesn't mean most people will or should know about it. Certainly cannot be expected.

I fail to see how you can know who Martin Luther King is, and his speech and fail to know exactly what the speech was about, or what he was campaigning for?

One of the lines is, verbatim, “I dream of a day when little black kids and little white kids can play together”

Sure you may not know the specific law itself by name, but you understand that he was a black man who wanted for every black persons to be treated the same as white peoples.
At its most fundamental level - that’s what the act is.

I don’t see how someone can know who MLK is, but not know what he stood for, you may not even know his name but his face is very distinguishable also.
That’s what I’m saying, to feign ignorance on the topic just doesnt add up.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

I really think it's unfair to call us dumb fecks. We have tried to explain extensively that the "blackface" is an unknown phenomenon on the mainland. People here in Belgium have never thought that painting your face was a racist thing, until the "Black Pete" discussion 2-3 years ago. This has been, and is being discussed in our country and steps are being taken. The cultural sensitivities are different in certain parts of the world. Things are changing for the better, as the world is becoming smaller and smaller, but you can't judge people by not knowing something that just isn't an issue in your culture.

Listen, I don’t meant to be a prick or anything tbh and am not particularly calling you a dumb feck. I am sympathetic to your point of how things can differ in translation culturally, but at the same time, you can’t absolve yourself of all responsibility in a situation where someone feels like you’re taking the piss. When you’ve done something that they feel is taking the piss.

 

[Ødegaard]

I fail to see how you can know who Martin Luther King is, and his speech and fail to know exactly what the speech was about, or what he was campaigning for?

One of the lines is, verbatim, “I dream of a day when little black kids and little white kids can play together”

Sure you may not know the specific law itself by name, but you understand that he was a black man who wanted for every black persons to be treated the same as white peoples.
At its most fundamental level - that’s what the act is.

I don’t see how someone can know who MLK is, but not know what he stood for, you may not even know his name by his face is very distinguishable also.
That’s what I’m saying, to feign ignorance on the topic just doesnt add up.

When did I ever claim such a thing?
Never.

 

[villain]

When did I ever claim such a thing?
Never.

You said why would someone know why the civil rights act came to the US.

If you are aware of who MLK is, you know what his speech is about - how can you not know?

You may not be aware of the specific act by name, but surely you can put 2+2 together, if they’re telling primary school kids about this stuff.

 

[onemanarmy]

Listen, I don’t meant to be a prick or anything tbh and am not particularly calling you a dumb feck. I am sympathetic to your point of how things can differ in translation culturally, but at the same time, you can’t absolve yourself of all responsibility in a situation where someone feels like you’re taking the piss. When you’ve done something that they feel is taking the piss.

I understand your frustration but really, I'm not taking the piss. I just expressed my sentiments and tried to explain the difference in view I (and my fellow Belgians/Dutchies/...) have because of cultural differences. Anyways, this has gone far enough for me

 

[SalfordRed18]

For having an opinion? I'm stating my view of the situation. Just because you disagree with somebody does not mean they should be banned. If you read my posts carefully you'll see that nothing that I say is racist, quite the opposite IMO. Having a relaxed attitude towards racial differences is not racist.

For future reference, black people dont like being referred as coloured.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

I understand your frustration but really, I'm not taking the piss. I just expressed my sentiments and tried to explain the difference in view I (and my fellow Belgians/Dutchies/...) have because of cultural differences. Anyways, this has gone far enough for me

Apologies if you felt I insulted you. Seem like a top lad

 

[Peyroteo]

American culture is entrenched in every part of western society.
Be it through movies, media or music it’s there.

For anyone to not know who Martin Luther King is, or the I have a dream speech, or segregation even through nations such as South Africa, sorry I don’t buy it.

Especially Portugal? With their history of colonialism? Nah.

Educated people know Martin Luther King, the dream speech, etc. but I guarantee you a lot of people have no idea why what Griezmann did was offensive for example. It's simply impossible to know everything, so there will be cases where things like this happen where there are no bad intentions from anyone. Even with american culture that's everywhere it's pretty easy to offend someone out of ignorance.

The other way around it's even easier to happen given the average american knows nothing about Portugal or its historical context. Every year I have tourists with english as their first language speak to me in spanish, I just have a laugh, make a joke, tell them to speak english and move on

A bit of understanding is needed in these situations where even though people might be doing something a bit offensive there are no intentions of doing so.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

There is a big difference between having heard of Martin Luther King, his speech or that woman on the buss who stood up against racism and researching when and why certain stuff happened in the US.
Besides, most of us here in northern Norway heard about Martin Luther King and those kind of stuff during our primary school, meaning a lot just forget that kind of stuff. Not saying they cannot be reminded or know the topics are sensitive without that kind of specific knowledge. My point is that it was a ridiculous assumption that a guy in Portugal would know about the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The case is good, using terrible arguments isn't needed.
The world takes a interest in the US, but the world doesn't revolve around it. Some take special interest and will know more.

Norwegians used to be Vikings, but most of us don't know more about vikings than people who watch movies and tv-shows about them. Just because it is history doesn't mean most people will or should know about it. Certainly cannot be expected.

Deliberately or not, you’re getting fixated on one specific statement (or example) rather than the spirit of it.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Yesterday, after seeing (what I could only imagine were people on the wind up) I really, really tried to stay out of this thread. I have had a look this morning and it seems to have escalated to a poster suggesting that a white person can use the 'n' word.

Honestly WTF is happening in here.

 

[villain]

Educated people know Martin Luther King, the dream speech, etc. but I guarantee you a lot of people have no idea why what Griezmann did was offensive for example. It's simply impossible to know everything, so there will be cases where things like this happen where there are no bad intentions from anyone. Even with american culture that's everywhere it's pretty easy to offend someone out of ignorance.

The other way around it's even easier to happen given the average american knows nothing about Portugal or its historical context. Every year I have tourists with english as their first language speak to me in spanish, I just have a laugh, make a joke, tell them to speak english and move on

A bit of understanding is needed in these situations where even though people might be doing something a bit offensive there are no intentions of doing so.

The discussion about certain European countries and their approach to blackface has been talked about at length in here to be fair.
To me, it personally doesn’t make sense to at least not have the minimum understanding that painting your skin black to try and represent black people should raise some questions - but I accept some cultures haven’t had to answer those questions until recently.

But like I said - the time to fall back on feigning ignorance when it comes to these topics is hastily running out.
With so much information available at any given time, even if you don’t know something you have the capacity to find out within seconds.

 

[villain]

Yesterday, after seeing (what I could only imagine were people on the wind up) I really, really tried to stay out of this thread. I have had a look this morning and it seems to have escalated to a poster suggesting that a white person can use the 'n' word.

Honestly WTF is happening in here.

He thinks he’s playing devils advocate, it’s cute that he thinks that.

 

[Ødegaard]

You said why would someone not know why he civil rights act came to the US.

If you are aware of who MLK is, you know what his speech is about - how can you not know?

You may not be aware of the specific act by name, but surely you can put 2+2 together, if they’re telling primary school kids about this stuff.

No, I asked why someone in Portugal should be expected to know what he is talking about when he's talking about the Civil Rights Act of 1964 in the USA.
In general we learn about Martin Luther King, his speech about the dream. We learn about the woman on the bus who was told to get off and rightfully didn't budge. We don't learn enough to know or remember about the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It's ridiculous to expect people from a whole different continent with their own set of history and issues to remember policies in the US just because the world in general take a interest in the US and have been affected by it in one way or another.
Hell, most people in my part of the world won't be able to namedrop more than a few presidents in the history of the US and what they stood for without looking it up.

There's no way anyone knows historical context from every single culture on the planet. It's impossible to not be ignorant about something so you're always running the risk of offending someone out of ignorance.

This got the message that the point was sensationalized when the poster straight out wrote:

‘intention’ means feckal in this situation. It is your responsibility to be aware of historical context and connotations.

Intentions means a lot.
There is a big difference between someone unknowingly or in a brief moment of ignorance commits a racist act and when someone is intentionally committing racist acts. The difference is one might be a racist, the other definitely is one.
Saying that intention means nothing and then backing that up with the idea that "you should be expected to know about some policy in the US back in year X", or shifting the goal-post by saying "well you had your own issues around slavery once upon a time so should at least be expected to know in details about that" is just plain wrong.
A lot of people don't have racism as a issue that goes around their world (as in daily life).
Is it sad that not everyone can see and work together to abolish the possibility of potential insensitivities? yes. Does it mean that they are fecking dumb for living in their own bubbles? No.

Deliberately or not, you’re getting fixated on one specific statement (or example) rather than the spirit of it.

It is deliberate. Because you are calling people dumb. Because you say intention and ignorance or lack of knowledge means they are just as bad based on your expectation that people are expected to know these things.
It's a ridiculous argument, and one the case doesn't need as we can all agree that racism is bad and should be dealt with. Throwing people who make mistakes or just aren't educated on a topic under the same bus as those who are plain & simply racist is infuriating.

You can expect a person to think that racism is bad, and you can expect someone to apologize if they do something that they later understand is a act of racism and do their utmost to not repeat the offense and be more careful the next time a potential similar incident pops up. But going further than that is having too high expectations in my opinion.
We can of course disagree on this, but that ultimately just means your (and my) expectations are subjective and not objective or factual - which means you shouldn't hang anyone over it.

 

[Ødegaard]

He thinks he’s playing devils advocate, it’s cute that he thinks that.

Think I've missed something... Who is?

 

[MadMike]

Yesterday, after seeing (what I could only imagine were people on the wind up) I really, really tried to stay out of this thread. I have had a look this morning and it seems to have escalated to a poster suggesting that a white person can use the 'n' word.

Honestly WTF is happening in here.

What I find really bizarre is the argument: "In an ideal, equal, world there wouldn't be a problem with the n-word being used by white people too because it wouldn't be perceived as racist".

Motherlicker, in an ideal world the word wouldn't exist! Is it really needed to emphasise how far from ideal the world is? And that as far as concessions go, white people not calling blacks with what is a historically very derogatory term, is a pretty fecking minor concession?

 

[fergieisold]

For future reference, black people dont like being referred as coloured.

If you were to acknowledge somebodies skin colour how would you describe it? I'm white so I presume you'd go with that?

 

[villain]

Think I've missed something... Who is?

The poster on the previous page, not you.

And regarding the previous post you quoted me on - I can see your point about not knowing the specific context with which created the circumstance for the need of the civil rights act in the first place.
And if there are still some people out there who claim to have no knowledge of the subject and remain ignorant - fair dos.

But the world is a lot smaller than it was 50,30, hell even 5 years ago.
These topics are being discussed with more and more frequency because they were shied away from in the past.

Therefore it only makes sense that claiming ignorance can’t be used as a shield to guard yourself forever.

And if you do continue to claim ignorance, because you aren’t exposed to others due to the bubble you live in, then it’s only right to be open to knowledge from different perspectives rather than doubling down on your claim purely because it’s all you’ve known.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

This got the message that the point was sensationalized when the poster straight out wrote:

Yes, it is sensationalising it because this is modern history. The discrimination coloured people faced overtly in society was either in your father’s or his father’s generation. To be ignorant of context in relation to this period is FRANKLY PATHETIC.

Intentions means a lot.
There is a big difference between someone unknowingly or in a brief moment of ignorance commits a racist act and when someone is intentionally committing racist acts. The difference is one might be a racist, the other definitely is one.
Saying that intention means nothing and then backing that up with the idea that "you should be expected to know about some policy in the US back in year X", or shifting the goal-post by saying "well you had your own issues around slavery once upon a time so should at least be expected to know in details about that" is just plain wrong.
A lot of people don't have racism as a issue that goes around their world (as in daily life).
Is it sad that not everyone can see and work together to abolish the possibility of potential insensitivities? yes. Does it mean that they are fecking dumb for living in their own bubbles? No.

First of all, I’ve already expressed in a previous post that I’ve sympathies for the possibility of someone who’s a genuine good guy that got caught out (doing something racially insensitive.....) but that doesn’t absolve you of all responsibility of doing something that someone finds inflammatory with good reason.

I’m sorry but you’re post is basically saying to me “this isn’t a problem I gotta deal with yo, how the feck am I supposed to know??”

Don’t expect for me to be all awwwwwwww

t is deliberate. Because you are calling people dumb. Because you say intention and ignorance or lack of knowledge means they are just as bad based on your expectation that people are expected to know these things.
It's a ridiculous argument, and one the case doesn't need as we can all agree that racism is bad and should be dealt with. Throwing people who make mistakes or just aren't educated on a topic under the same bus as those who are plain & simply racist is infuriating.

You can expect a person to think that racism is bad, and you can expect someone to apologize if they do something that they later understand is a act of racism and do their utmost to not repeat the offense and be more careful the next time a potential similar incident pops up. But going further than that is having too high expectations in my opinion.
We can of course disagree on this, but that ultimately just means your (and my) expectations are subjective and not objective or factual - which means you shouldn't hang anyone over it.

See above.

 

[Raees]

Can't see him being a racist, doesn't make any sense. He's just been very silly and insensitive.. guilty of ignorance if anything.

Stupid thing is he could have just worn the costume without the blackface stuff and gone as Larry Bird.

 

[SteveJ]

I can't believe that someone seriously mentioned 'going against the status quo'...

 

[SalfordRed18]

If you were to acknowledge somebodies skin colour how would you describe it? I'm white so I presume you'd go with that?

By saying their colour.

Don't try and legitimize calling black people coloured. That's an old saying to which you would have said it before and someone would have put you in your place before.

 

[villain]

If you were to acknowledge somebodies skin colour how would you describe it? I'm white so I presume you'd go with that?

If you can call yourself white, why can’t you call me black?

Technically, you’re coloured too.

 

[Halftrack]

I can't believe that someone seriously mentioned 'going against the status quo'...

Yeah, I thought we were supposed to maintain it?

 

[buchansleftleg]

He thinks he’s playing devils advocate, it’s cute that he thinks that.

As a white Person in Manchester I may think I have nothing to do with Slavery / historical issues but......

Look at the buildings in any UK city from the regency period - this era of mercantilism and wealth was borne off the back of the slave trade which the British Government was complicit in supporting and encouraging to grow the British empire.

This early wealth creation started the industrial revolution and gave Britain an unparalleled advantage in world trade and industry, education,science and the arts, which we still lead in many areas.

It also funded a growth in empire and imperialism where we enforced loyalty through a peculiarly British mix of Bureaucracy and machine guns.

All the while we massively expanded a cultural and racial diaspora of Black people from Africa.

We pillaged Africa's Natural resources with indiginous populations receiving little recompense, even today.

Created artificial Nations, deliberately cutting across tribal and religious groups to sow discord and future political instability even after we grudgingly gave them independence.

So how do I balance the scales? It's too overwhelming! What reparations could be made to make things better? Didn't poor white people suffer in these times too?

Well in the scheme of things.... not being allowed to use particular words....not using "blackface" even if I also want to be a morris dancer!....not having a particular racial stereotype on my Jam jar.... is me actually getting off pretty lightly as I sit in a Manchester Office, built by a textile tycoon who made most of their profit from importing silks from China that we got at preferential rates because the British got most of the locals hooked on Heroin!

You can't divorce yourself from history and the influence it has had on us all for better or worse. We CAN however treat each other with respect and work within the norms people feel are appropriate without crying bitter tears like spoilt children.

 

[onemanarmy]

By saying their colour.

Don't try and legitimize calling black people coloured. That's an old saying to which you would have said it before and someone would have put you in your place before.

I was going to stay out of this topic, but I invite you to come to Belgium and call a black person "black", and see what happens...

If you can call yourself white, why can’t you call me black?

Technically, you’re coloured too.

See above, it's an insult in Dutch to call someone "black". It's a racist phrase. No one can know all these cultural differences. It's a very difficult matter.

 

[RedTillI'mDead]

The current generation of black people have no direct involvement in being slaves yet still have to live in a world that treats them differently because of their skin colour.
Studies show black people get stopped and searched up to 5x more than white people.
Jail sentences are up to 8x more than white people.
Up to 3x less likely to get a job if their name is a traditional black name

I could go on.

It seems your need for an inclusive world is only based around the material and unimportant things in life.
You seem to be under the impression that racism is over or not a common occurrence anymore.

When the world is a fairer place, we can discuss these topics.

Sometimes the subtle things make a difference. The whole Griezmann thing can either be a big public statement of inclusion or one of segregation. You want to solve the big issues, sometimes you need to focus on the emotive issues first.

 

[villain]

As a white Person in Manchester I may think I have nothing to do with Slavery / historical issues but......

Look at the buildings in any UK city from the regency period - this era of mercantilism and wealth was borne off the back of the slave trade which the British Government was complicit in supporting and encouraging to grow the British empire.

This early wealth creation started the industrial revolution and gave Britain an unparalleled advantage in world trade and industry, education,science and the arts, which we still lead in many areas.

It also funded a growth in empire and imperialism where we enforced loyalty through a peculiarly British mix of Bureaucracy and machine guns.

All the while we massively expanded a cultural and racial diaspora of Black people from Africa.

We pillaged Africa's Natural resources with indiginous populations receiving little recompense, even today.

Created artificial Nations, deliberately cutting across tribal and religious groups to sow discord and future political instability even after we grudgingly gave them independence.

So how do I balance the scales? It's too overwhelming! What reparations could be made to make things better? Didn't poor white people suffer in these times too?

Well in the scheme of things.... not being allowed to use particular words....not using "blackface" even if I also want to be a morris dancer!....not having a particular racial stereotype on my Jam jar.... is me actually getting off pretty lightly as I sit in a Manchester Office, built by a textile tycoon who made most of their profit from importing silks from China that we got at preferential rates because the British got most of the locals hooked on Heroin!

You can't divorce yourself from history and the influence it has had on us all for better or worse. We CAN however treat each other with respect and work within the norms people feel are appropriate without crying bitter tears like spoilt children.

Excellent post, thank you for taking the time out to write this.

Like you say - much of Britain’s wealth is built off the backs of the colonised parts of the world which they pillaged.
Personally - my stomach drops every time I see the royal family in Buckingham palace draped in Gold that was taken from Ghana and is dripping in so much blood. And I had to find this out from my family and ancestors.

So like you say, collectively if the trade off is to not paint your skin or call us the n word and other minute minuscule actions - then yeah, you’ve gotten off very lightly.

 

[Ødegaard]

The poster on the previous page, not you.

And regarding the previous post you quoted me on - I can see your point about not knowing the specific context with which created the circumstance for the need of the civil rights act in the first place.
And if there are still some people out there who claim to have no knowledge of the subject and remain ignorant - fair dos.

But the world is a lot smaller than it was 50,30, hell even 5 years ago.
These topics are being discussed with more and more frequency because they were shied away from in the past.

Therefore it only makes sense that claiming ignorance can’t be used as a shield to guard yourself forever.

And if you do continue to claim ignorance, because you aren’t exposed to others due to the bubble you live in, then it’s only right to be open to knowledge from different perspectives rather than doubling down on your claim purely because it’s all you’ve known.

We do agree on principle I feel.
Especially on the last bolded part.

We just are from two different parts of the world (not just geographically).
Me from the part that is extremely secluded from the issues but where it isn't entirely eradicated, which is why I try to do my best to understand it and engage in conversations or at the very least listen to people like yourself who are unlucky enough to be quite experienced with the issues. But because I put a lot of value in your words, I do feel the need to challenge them when I can't grasp something. If i still cannot grasp it after the discussion I'll most often just assume it's because of how lucky I've been in my life and accept it as something I've learned a bit more about.
Blackface, as others have mentioned, is a hundred percent new to me, but from what I've read here now I'd absolutely understand why people are taking offense.

It's important to accept that ignorance and a lack of knowledge will be around for quite some time still, but it's our reaction once confronted with our bubble that makes or breaks a character in my opinion.

Yes, it is sensationalising it because this is modern history. The discrimination coloured people faced overtly in society was either in your father’s or his father’s generation. To be ignorant of context in relation to this period is FRANKLY PATHETIC.




First of all, I’ve already expressed in a previous post that I’ve sympathies for the possibility of someone who’s a genuine good guy that got caught out (doing something racially insensitive.....) but that doesn’t absolve you of all responsibility of doing something that someone finds inflammatory with good reason.

I’m sorry but you’re post is basically saying to me “this isn’t a problem I gotta deal with yo, how the feck am I supposed to know??”

Don’t expect for me to be all awwwwwwww




See above.

We don't live in America. We have bigger historical issues with Nazis in scandinavia than we do with racism if you are going by the context of just a generation or two ago. The same goes for most in europe. You're taking a standpoint as if everyone should be a American. It's not something that's been heavily discussed and troubled all the communities in Europe for the last couple of generations so there could be a expectation of knowing.

I've never claimed that a lack of knowledge absolves you of responsibility.
But what more can you do or be expected to do than apologize and try your best to not repeat offense, or having a discussion with people in order to understand why you did offend and try to find logical leaps that help you avoid other sensitive topics in the future?

My post is saying that you shouldn't be so hasty in throwing those with a lack of knowledge together with those that have malicious intentions like you do. If you cannot even grasp that from my post then i fear we won't be having any debate.

 

[RedTillI'mDead]

Are you suggesting that a difference of POV based on history is racist? The reason a white person don't/can't use the word nigger is because it is the white people that transformed the word into a pejorative one, by themselves the words negre, negro and nigger are nothing. The reason why black people use the word between them is to lessen its power, it's done in an amusing way and that intent only works within the community. Also not all black people do it.

You realise by saying "the white people" that you are being racist. Don't tar the narrow minded of the past with all white people.

 

[villain]

I was going to stay out of this topic, but I invite you to come to Belgium and call a black person "black", and see what happens...



See above, it's an insult in Dutch to call someone "black". It's a racist phrase. No one can know all these cultural differences. It's a very difficult matter.

Are you speaking Dutch, or talking to Belgian black people?

Calling a black person coloured is very dated.

But if you’re having trouble between the two cultures, you can call us by our names too.

Sometimes the subtle things make a difference. The whole Griezmann thing can either be a big public statement of inclusion or one of segregation. You want to solve the big issues, sometimes you need to focus on the emotive issues first.

That makes no sense.

White people created the culture of segregation based on race, built systems that continue to perpetuate discrimination based on race

Yet, you want the people who have suffered under both to fix this problem by allowing white people to paint their skin?

 

[SteveJ]

Coming soon: the Twinkie Defense.

 

[JPRouve]

You realise by saying "the white people" that you are being racist. Don't tar the narrow minded of the past with all white people.

It actually isn't racist in that context since it is the dichotomy chosen by the people I'm talking about. Niggers vs white which is demonstrated by the concept of White supremacy.

 

[villain]

You realise by saying "the white people" that you are being racist. Don't tar the narrow minded of the past with all white people.

Why is it that so many people who are willing to die on a hill when it comes to racism will say this very thing?

“Why can’t I paint my face black? That’s not racist”
“You can’t just call white people white, that’s racist”

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

We do agree on principle I feel.
Especially on the last bolded part.

We just are from two different parts of the world (not just geographically).
Me from the part that is extremely secluded from the issues but where it isn't entirely eradicated, which is why I try to do my best to understand it and engage in conversations or at the very least listen to people like yourself who are unlucky enough to be quite experienced with the issues. But because I put a lot of value in your words, I do feel the need to challenge them when I can't grasp something. If i still cannot grasp it after the discussion I'll most often just assume it's because of how lucky I've been in my life and accept it as something I've learned a bit more about.
Blackface, as others have mentioned, is a hundred percent new to me, but from what I've read here now I'd absolutely understand why people are taking offense.

It's important to accept that ignorance and a lack of knowledge will be around for quite some time still, but it's our reaction once confronted with our bubble that makes or breaks a character in my opinion.


We don't live in America. We have bigger historical issues with Nazis in scandinavia than we do with racism if you are going by the context of just a generation or two ago. The same goes for most in europe. You're taking a standpoint as if everyone should be a American. It's not something that's been heavily discussed and troubled all the communities in Europe for the last couple of generations so there could be a expectation of knowing.

I've never claimed that a lack of knowledge absolves you of responsibility.
But what more can you do or be expected to do than apologize and try your best to not repeat offense, or having a discussion with people in order to understand why you did offend and try to find logical leaps that help you avoid other sensitive topics in the future?

My post is saying that you shouldn't be so hasty in throwing those with a lack of knowledge together with those that have malicious intentions like you do. If you cannot even grasp that from my post then i fear we won't be having any debate.

You’ve misconstrued my point here - which was simply about responsibility. I’m not trying to throw people in front of a firing squad here, and am not at odds with the bolded text.

I may have conveyed it more aggressively than I meant, but it’s only because of stuff I’ve personally experience due to ‘ignorance’. Cba with it tbh. Plus I’m drunk since yesterday hehe