I don't get why some lose their heads over Morata. Everytime I've seen him for Chelsea he's been ok, nothing too special.
Chelsea 2017/18 thread - FA Cup Champs, League chumps
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Especially bringing as example 5 outfield players who flopped over 10 years of transfers. And, Owen, who was brought as a squad player and was basically another chance to stick two fingers at Liverpool.
Ofcourse there were great signings but those i mentioned were amounst the worst made by a big club. Fergie always brought in suitable assistant's that covered his (very few) weaknesses as a manager (i could be wrong but wasn't Quieroz mainly brought in to improve and assist SAF in Europe from a tactical perspective?) , so it's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that with expert help in the market less flops would have been signed, the squad would have been stronger, ergo even more success.
Fergie is the greatest manager ever, but he often let himself down in the market.
You're talking as if giving the board control over transfers instead of managers will make all transfers a success, as if there's no chance of signing a player that's not capable to perform the tasks the manager ( who doesn't choose him at all ) on the pitch, that can lead to his failure as well.
SAF earned his power in United, and listing 10 bad transfers in a 27 years managing the club is a very slight number. He got many other transfers spot on. It's normal.
Maybe but he always was successful inspite of the so called failures. He had cleverley anderson and Giggs for CM (plus illness afflicted fletcher) in his last season and still won the title. And he lost in CL even though Mourinho admitted his team was lucky to win. He may have settled for less than great players (like Owen instead of Benzema or kagawa instead of hazard) but he got them to perform at world class levels
It doesn't matter who we currently have in the squad or who we have sold; we have simply underspent in the last transfer window. This was either because the Board was not prepared to spend or because the players we targeted decided to stay where they are (improved terms) or they moved to other clubs (more perceived glamour or more opportunity to play every week).
The Board may well be exercising some financial restraint due to the impending new stadium and we have to trust that they get the balance right between spending on infrastructure and/or the current team. As fans we generally live in the current season whereas the Board are paid to look well ahead from a financial perspective. That's the reality of top-flight football.
Like it or not to stay at the top you have to spend big. MCFC have done so over the last 5 or 6 years and MUFC have pulled themselves out of their recent, and relative, doldrums by spending huge amounts of money. Neither have major infrastructure projects on the horizon AFAIK.
Whilst I can't see Chelsea slipping too far from the very top it would not be unreasonable to expect to be in for a tough ride until we have our new home built - and maybe a few years after.
Football - best viewed as a long game for long-term fans.
The Board may well be exercising some financial restraint due to the impending new stadium and we have to trust that they get the balance right between spending on infrastructure and/or the current team. As fans we generally live in the current season whereas the Board are paid to look well ahead from a financial perspective. That's the reality of top-flight football.
Like it or not to stay at the top you have to spend big. MCFC have done so over the last 5 or 6 years and MUFC have pulled themselves out of their recent, and relative, doldrums by spending huge amounts of money. Neither have major infrastructure projects on the horizon AFAIK.
Whilst I can't see Chelsea slipping too far from the very top it would not be unreasonable to expect to be in for a tough ride until we have our new home built - and maybe a few years after.
Football - best viewed as a long game for long-term fans.
It’s worked damn well for Fergie and man Utd and I am all for giving the manager the final say in transfers as Long as he’s earned it. You have to excuse dancfc as he’s a strong supporter of Football boards and likes to heap blame such as bad transfers on the managers. That’s why he wants Conte to be replaced by the watford coach because Conte wants more players which goes against the Chelsea board’s mantra of clamping down on spending.
It doesn't matter who we currently have in the squad or who we have sold; we have simply underspent in the last transfer window. This was either because the Board was not prepared to spend or because the players we targeted decided to stay where they are (improved terms) or they moved to other clubs (more perceived glamour or more opportunity to play every week).
The Board may well be exercising some financial restraint due to the impending new stadium and we have to trust that they get the balance right between spending on infrastructure and/or the current team. As fans we generally live in the current season whereas the Board are paid to look well ahead from a financial perspective. That's the reality of top-flight football.
Like it or not to stay at the top you have to spend big. MCFC have done so over the last 5 or 6 years and MUFC have pulled themselves out of their recent, and relative, doldrums by spending huge amounts of money. Neither have major infrastructure projects on the horizon AFAIK.
Whilst I can't see Chelsea slipping too far from the very top it would not be unreasonable to expect to be in for a tough ride until we have our new home built - and maybe a few years after.
Football - best viewed as a long game for long-term fans.
I think it's an incredible feat that we have managed to mix running a sustainable buisness with challenging and winning trophies, people don't seem to realize (as they would rather stick their fingers in there ear and pretend we are still spending like 2004) thatwe have been running on low spend since 2007 and not one player remains from that period, meaning we have overhauled one title winning squad for another all while running a profitable buisness.
Ofcourse it won't totally eliminate the risk, but when you have a group of people working together it defiantly lessens it. If anything im actually raving about his ability as a manager saying he could be more successful, 2003-2006 especially you had a lot of shite in your squad and was arguably the main reason you couldn't give Arsenal's invincible then Jose's Chelsea a proper title challenge.
That period is very normal for any big club to pass by during their build up and moving from one generation of players to the next one, and we returned back to the top from 2007 winning 3 successive leagues and a CL after SAF finished building the squad.
While Matic role is important, and your point on about extra forward in Pedro is spot on; it's still a bit exaggerating on Matic's importance. Here is why:
1. As many pointed out: more game in Europe, and even the other players ain't as consistent. Beside Matic, David Luiz in last season form also played huge role. Chelsea defense this season has been shuffled a bit.
2. Injuries. Chelsea ain't afforded with fielding pretty same team every weeks. Point 1 may have some influence here.
3. Chelsea this season is more proactive in trying to win the ball higher up the pitch with more dynamic midfielders. Matic of course wouldn't fancy a role in this approach. The question is whether their recruitment is well done. I meant they clearly need to upgrade their wingbacks but they failed. While Bakayoko is young so understandably inconsistent. That's 3 positions that need to be addressed to change the team approach. Then squad depth.
I would wait a couple hours more today before sticking my knife into Chelsea's supposed sins......
I would wait a couple hours more today before sticking my knife into Chelsea's supposed sins......
We're still a few points ahead of them even if we lose
I think many of you are not taking our midfield injuries into account. We often had two midfielders injured at the same time. It was not that we missed Matic just that we lacked players in the right position.
Chelsea lack any cutting edge without Morata. And feck the board for buying shite like Zappacosta.
£25m for him is absolutely baffling.
Zappacosta may not be good signing and all, but it's not the main issue is it? I meant you spend 30mil for certain Belgium forward who sat out for pretty much entire season, and even after a season to settle he couldn't help whenever the main forward is out. That's the problem right there, the board signs their own profile which doesn't always work with coaches' vision, and you seem ever lacking extra quality despite not really lacking in spending
It's funny how all the flops are 'board' signings but all the successful one's are manager. Tbf Batshauyi was clearly not Conte but Zappacosta had his fingerprints all over. I have never been an advocate of coaches getting full control, there should be atleast a group of 4 including the manager who work together on transfers. if we gave full control to Scolari Drogba would have gone, we gave it to Jose and lost one of the best talents of this generation who's now the best player in a team likely to break most PL records.
What a bunch of bs. Chelsea coaches don’t sign players - only the board has the final say. Where’s the bloody evidence that Zappacosta was Conte’s signing? The board fecked up the transfer window and we have plebeians like you defending them. Did they pay you to post shite like this?
If you want to play that game where's the proof that coaches don't sign players? Your hypocrisy and double standards is appalling. Do you still think Roman will not let a trophyless season slide and still sack the manager regardless of progress made.
Thought you put me on ignore? Muahaha! It’s well reported that the Chelsea administration has the final say in all purchases and sales and Conte himself stated so recently. Go back and sniff that rear end of he Chelsea board!
So it's Conte has no say to he doesn't get the final say? As usual as nice shift in the goalposts from you. I still see you absolutely no respect for fellow supporters who have a different opinion to you, i mean how long are you going to keep this bizarre hate campaign up?
When and where did I state in print that Conte has no say?
Read my post #2578. Here's an extract of that post.
What a bunch of bs. Chelsea coaches don’t sign players - only the board has the final say.
http://readchelsea.com/2017/12/15/conte-admits-doesnt-get-final-say-transfers/
And here you are proclaiming on cyberspace that the flop called Zappacosta was signed by Conte without ONE SHRED of evidence.
i will certainly continue to pummel the chelsea board and the likes of board brown noses like you for preventing the club from achieving its full potential.
They're utter shite. So many from last season falling to get anywhere close to their performance levels.
So you believe they have NEVER done anything good for the club? The fact that you have had to resort to insults like 'brownosing' shows not only your lack of any basic maturity but also your inability to construct an argument properly, i imagine you were also in the group branding our Belgian fans delusional fanboy's for saying we would regret KDB's sale? And when have i ever said the board do nothing wrong? Just one quote would do but you keep shirking it every time, i will admit though, i don't take kindly to people like you who have a football manager mentality (something not only i have called you up on) and want it all and want it now. Im guessing you started following the club when we were dominanting the market and thought it would stay that way forever, would explain a lot!!
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/583661/Jose-Mourinho-Radamel-Falcao-Chelsea-transfer-plans
Look here, Jose comfirming he wanted Falcao, ill look forward to another spectacular change of those goalposts of yours.
I have had many debates with other Chelsea fans in the past, often it has got heated but there's always been a respect maintained, the fact we both support the same team is enough for that to be a given. You seem to have a hatred of me ( and other fellow CFC supporters) because i have a different opinion to you, which quite frankly isn't very normal, i assumed upto now you were just some angry/bored teenager after some attention but your profile claims you are in your 40's, surely not?
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If the Chelsea board doesn't start investing in top quality players and back Conte, I can see the likes of Hazard and Courtois wanting out of the club in addition to Conte next summer. Not that I blame them. They deserve better!
But this will be music to the ears of those who wish for Marco Silva to be the next coach of Chelsea FC.
Or bring Ancelotti back which is the most probable route. It would be fun to see how some of the fans react to that. Only reason Ancelotti will be hired as the next Chelsea coach is that he won't ask for signings and will be contented with what he has and what last minute mediocre players that the board heaps upon him.
But this will be music to the ears of those who wish for Marco Silva to be the next coach of Chelsea FC.
Or bring Ancelotti back which is the most probable route. It would be fun to see how some of the fans react to that. Only reason Ancelotti will be hired as the next Chelsea coach is that he won't ask for signings and will be contented with what he has and what last minute mediocre players that the board heaps upon him.
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Ranting and raving away while throwing wild insinuations at someone you know nothing about i.e. an anonymous internet poster shows you up really well.So you believe they have NEVER done anything good for the club? The fact that you have had to resort to insults like 'brownosing' shows not only your lack of any basic maturity but also your inability to construct an argument properly, i imagine you were also in the group branding our Belgian fans delusional fanboy's for saying we would regret KDB's sale? And when have i ever said the board do nothing wrong? Just one quote would do but you keep shirking it every time, i will admit though, i don't take kindly to people like you who have a football manager mentality (something not only i have called you up on) and want it all and want it now. Im guessing you started following the club when we were dominanting the market and thought it would stay that way forever, would explain a lot!!
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/583661/Jose-Mourinho-Radamel-Falcao-Chelsea-transfer-plans
Look here, Jose comfirming he wanted Falcao, ill look forward to another spectacular change of those goalposts of yours.
I have had many debates with other Chelsea fans in the past, often it has got heated but there's always been a respect maintained, the fact we both support the same team is enough for that to be a given. You seem to have a hatred of me ( and other fellow CFC supporters) because i have a different opinion to you, which quite frankly isn't very normal, i assumed upto now you were just some angry/bored teenager after some attention but your profile claims you are in your 40's, surely not?
Falcao was signed because the Board had the final say, regardless of whether Mourinho wanted him or not. Now where is the evidence of Zappacosta being signed by Conte?
Try harder at defending the Chelsea board next time.
After all, you want Marco Silva to replace Conte.Might want to calm down bit lads. Play the ball not the man.
What insinuations am i throwing exactly? You are the one with the clear issue here,your hatred towards me Isn't an insinuation, its clearly evident in your postings. And your inability to debate properly is proven by your repeated playground insults and pretending i have said stuff i haven't (get on to that shortly).Ranting and raving away while throwing wild insinuations at someone you know nothing about i.e. an anonymous internet poster shows you up really well.
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So the board have the final say in everything you say, does that include the signings of Morata, Hazard, Fabregas, Costa, Pedro, Courtois, Luiz, Kante etc al? Change of the goalpost's incoming.
Try? With you i don't even need to try, your 'points' are so badly constructed full off blind agenda and hypocrisy even Joey Essex wouldn't have a problem countering them.
Do i? Got a previous quote of mine to back that accusation up?
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Insinuation = belgian fanboys etc. As for proper debating, try avoiding the my question and provide the EVIDENCE that Zappacosta was Conte's signing.
The answer is yes, the board signed all those players above as well. So what?
Besides empty accusations, do you have any FACTS to counter what I posted regarding the board having the FINAL say in ALL Chelsea's transfers which you claim you have? ZILCH! Hence, you have to agree that the Board bought the likes of Zappacosta (a 4th or 5th choice) due to penny pinching and now deserve all the shite flung at them except from you of course as you slavishly defend them which makes my suspect that you are the one with an agenda if you are trawling football forums everywhere and posting on behalf of the board.
Also, you posted earlier that you put me on your IGNORE list yet here you are getting crushed by me in failing to put up a factual reason as to why Mourinho bought Zappacosta instead of the board. Looks like you can't get enough of me, eh?
I distinctly remember you posting regarding Marco Silva being a possible next coach of Chelsea. However, I do know you also admire Pochettino and wants Conte to emulate him.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/chelsea-2017-18-thread-hakuna-morata.430177/page-57#post-21716811
My words to you on that? Go support Spurs then!
Solid and efficient side. They haven't hit the heights of last season but they've not exactly massively under performed.
They are really fortunate to have Hazard though, what a player.
They are really fortunate to have Hazard though, what a player.
They are coming into form just at the right time. Can see them overtaking us pretty soon. I envy Azpi and his crosses. One of the most underrated players in the league. Excellent defender and contributes on the offensive side too.
So you are admitting that the board had the final say on all those players that are currently in (at worst) the top 5 in their position in the league? (world in some of those cases). And that's before i mention the likes of Christensen and Ampadu, two of the most promosing youngsters in the world. You have basically totally destroyed your own argument by linking a post of mine were i clearly a stated a moment the board failed us, oh and also in that post you linked, i didn't mention Silva once..................
As for Zappa, i don't have any define proof granted, im taking an educated guess due to Conte's links to serie A and especially Turin, admittedly it was almost certainly plan G due to the board failing (happy now?) to get Sandro, Danilo etc al and he has turned pretty crap, but i think Conte probably identified him just incase, not define proof granted but my prediction.
Now you insist i want Conte out and Marco Silva in, can you please provide a quote to back that up (and im talking accurate quote not one you have taken out of context).
Btw, i take back my football manager jibe, that was below the belt and i aplogize.
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What makes you think Zappacosta was Conte's signing? Because they're both Italians? Even if it's true, it's clear that he wasn't his first or even second choice. He confirmed in his July interview that he'd wanted Walker https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...r-city-offered-tottenham-50m-for-england-man/ and it's a well-known fact we were in talks for Danilo before he ended up at City.
He is phenomenal. An agent fee is all that stopped him joining. And Kante too, mental how he gets labelled overrated. Hes outstanding
If we don’t invest properly, we’re gonna lose these top players and a top coach. This club is really frustrating sometimes.
i think you may lose Hazard anyway in summer, even though there is talk of him signing a new deal. You'd get close to £100m. Conte will probably leave anyway come summer too. Not sacked but will walk away and Ancelotti will go back. I think you will spend a few quid in Jan, and City will. Just whether you sign who Conte wants, and not the board
I'd be stunned if he left for anything under the £150m level. He's one of the most talented players on the planet.
There was never any admission on my part regarding whether the board had the final say or not. It was always my argument backed by evidence that it was so. With the current one-in-one-out transfer policy and having a near zero net transfer spend every year, the fact of the matter is that Chelsea will never take the next step forward if the Board does not sanction serious spending (with some financial sense) rather than penny pinch to the extreme and becoming more Arsenal-like than Arsenal themselves! Youth players have nothing to do with this line or argument here so leave that aside. And when you said the board "failed us", you refer to something like 10 years ago. It is NOW that is of relevance, not past history.
As you correctly pointed out that Zappacosta is probably a Plan G and this is solely due to the Board deliberately bidding on the last day of the transfer window due to wanting to squeeze deals to the last penny which not surprisingly backfired. Hence, the blame should be on the board for not obtaining plans A-F.
Regarding Conte, you profess admiration for Pochettino and desire to have Conte emulate him (you mentioned about Pochettino not complaining in public to Daniel Levy). If Conte wasn't such a battler and an ambitious football coach, he wouldn't want to have anything less than the best to work with unlike Pochettino or Wenger who are happy making top 4 and not winning trophies and their Boards are absolutely okay with that.
If you have observed the summer's transfer dealings, all the players that were signed by the Chelsea board faced absolutely no competition from other clubs or were 4th of 5th choices. For instance, Bakayoko was identified by football observers as the weakest player in last season's Monaco team and was constantly carried by Fabinho yet when Chelsea moved for him there were no other clubs in the picture. Yet it took literally more than 2 months to get him signed which I attribute to the board trying to wrangle every last penny and bidding upwards of one pound increments until the 40 million pound mark was reached. Reports also mentioned that Danilo was gazumped at the last minute by Man City due to Marina bargaining over a couple of million pounds like one would haggle at a flea market and as a result, a potentially good squad player was gone.
I fully expect Conte to leave by next summer and Hazard and Courtois not signing new contracts and the board will sell them and be replaced by the likes of Ross Barkley.
As for the Conte Out fans, be careful what you wish for as Ancelotti will be replacing him and that's when you will really start weeping and gnashing your teeth. But the Board will be happy as Ancelotti won't demand for signings and will take whatever he has in the squad.