Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

LeftyBlaster said:
:lol: That’s why I said arguably. He’s placed them almost on par with us in the league and further in Europe with a weaker squad. His system gets the best out of his players. Jose hasn’t maximised our potential.
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So which United players would get into their starting line-up and who would they replace?
 
broccoli said:
Can is very athletic and mobile and not bad technically. Who united have like him? Wijnaldum is a smart tidy player I admire. Again, he covers the whole pitch, has good technique and scores goals. It seems he's underrated in England for some reason.
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Matic and Pogba are both much better than Can and Wijnaldum. feck me, even having to justify that Wijnaldum won't start ahead of Matic and Pogba is funny. You might like the player, I like Scot McTominay doesn't mean I will tell he will start in Liverpool and City midfield.
 
broccoli said:
Liverpool players who would start for United: VVD, both full backs, Emre Can, Mane, Salah, Wijnaldum and possibly Firmino.

United players who would start for Liverpool: DDG, Matic, Pogba and Rashford.

My fairly neutral opinion is that Liverpool has a slightly better starting line-up. They have decent and promising full backs, something that United doesn't. Their midfield is not up to the talent that United has at their disposal but with the arrival of Keita they will be a very tenacious and also skilled core of players. In attack they are just better right now.
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Both full backs? You mean that 19-year old Trent Alexander Arnold would play ahead of Valencia? And why would Can and Wijnaldum start for you and at the same time Pogba and Matic for us?
 
Rob said:
Both full backs? You mean that 19-year old Trent Alexander Arnold would play ahead of Valencia? And why would Can and Wijnaldum start for you and at the same time Pogba and Matic for us?
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Also VVD starts for us but none of our CBs would start for you. Some logic there.
 
@septic
Now, you may say Pogba was on the bench but that offsets the fact McTominey with a 0 transfer fee had a bigger shout to play instead of 30m Fellaini or Lingard playing on the right of a 3 with 20m Sanchez possibly dropped.
It evens itself out so the stat isn't worthless at all.
Wynaldum and Mignolet would add 30m odd to their starting line up and they had as much right to start as Lindelof and Mata did.
Where do you stop with your logic? 25m midfielder Lallana would have started if fit etc etc.
The point is, Klopp isnt a penny pinching miracle woker turning water into wine.
 
cyberman said:
@septic
Now, you may say Pogba was on the bench but that offsets the fact McTominey with a 0 transfer fee had a bigger shout to play instead of 30m Fellaini or Lingard playing on the right of a 3 with 20m Sanchez possibly dropped.
It evens itself out so the stat isn't worthless at all.
Wynaldum and Mignolet would add 30m odd to their starting line up and they had as much right to start as Lindelof and Mata did.
Where do you stop with your logic? 25m midfielder Lallana would have started if fit etc etc.
The point is, Klopp isnt a penny pinching miracle woker turning wate into wine.
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Man it's high time you learn how to quote the posts you are replying to. It's very confusing to read your posts without context and search the post you are replying to.

It's very simple and less effort than writing the user name.
 
Rob said:
I was very pleased and, frankly, surprised to see how well TAA and Lovren did yesterday. I was dreading TAA against Sane.

A master class by Klopp as we pressed them brilliantly and contained them well in the second half.

Even if we got a much better result than I'd ever hoped for, I'm still nervous about about next week. A goal from City in the first half could make our players anxious.
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I am surprised how many people think this tie is over. City can quit easily go 2-0 up at Etihad in 20 mins for ex. Obviously Liverpool would be favorites given the lead and high likelihood of scoring at least one goal but IMO the tie is far from over.
 
@Rob
Feck off with the net spend. if we sold Rashford for 200m it wouldn't mean Jose is a bargin basement genius.
It doesn't matter how the money is generated, Klopp has had near enough the amount Jose has had and here are the results.
Boo hoo you had to replace Coutinho, our midfield was Bastian, Morgan and Rooney when Jose took over!
 
Infordin said:
In my opinion

Mourinho is not the right man for Manchester United, neither is Guardiola. Klopp would have been the perfect match for Manchester United, his style of play suits your club perfectly.
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I don't think United had the players to press at 90mph. That isn't really the game of Carrick, Pogba, Mata, Fellaini, Matic
 
I was quite impressed by Liverpool last night. Klopp has got them set up with a lot of belief. The tie isn't settled, but if LFC get a goal at Emptihad, and they should be able to, it very nearly will be over.

With Keita coming, and if they get a couple other quality players in the summer, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that they could challenge for the title next season...
 
cyberman said:
@Rob
Feck off with the net spend. if we sold Rashford for 200m it wouldn't mean Jose is a bargin basement genius.
It doesn't matter how the money is generated, Klopp has had near enough the amount Jose has had and here are the results.
Boo hoo you had to replace Coutinho, our midfield was Bastian, Morgan and Rooney!
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Losing Countinho for them was akin to you not buying Pogba, huge loss. And you easily outspent them over the last 3-4 years anyway and you offer wages for the likes of Sanchez that they couldn't dream of.

And yes he has been buying in the bargain basement more so as no one was crying out for Salah and Mane before they went there
 
Ironically, Liverpool applied long ball tactics against City and by-pass MF buildup. It was long ball to the sides instead of crossing into the box, but long ball nevertheless. It was also set piece into the box that brought the 3rd goal. They just did what was effective, don't demonise long ball, and we certainly made less cross into the box compared with Moyes.
 
cyberman said:
@septic
Now, you may say Pogba was on the bench but that offsets the fact McTominey with a 0 transfer fee had a bigger shout to play instead of 30m Fellaini or Lingard playing on the right of a 3 with 20m Sanchez possibly dropped.
It evens itself out so the stat isn't worthless at all.
Wynaldum and Mignolet would add 30m odd to their starting line up and they had as much right to start as Lindelof and Mata did.
Where do you stop with your logic? 25m midfielder Lallana would have started if fit etc etc.
The point is, Klopp isnt a penny pinching miracle woker turning water into wine.
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lets just go with... usual best starting 11.

United's will have cost more. so the point is rubbish. 'let's conveniently pick a game which distorts the truth as much as possible'. whats the point.

and yes net spend matters. if you are getting your money from selling your best players, then of course that is different to getting it from sponsorship deals. if we sold Rashford for 200m it would mean he had developed into one of the best players in the world - so would be a huge loss.
 
@roonster09
Third world problems my friend. For some reason my quoted posts don't appear when I click submit.
Im not that interesting anyway!
 
cyril C said:
If their fullbacks are good enough, so should Shaw, TFM.
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Their fullbacks aren't good enough. TAA got torn a new arsehole by Rashford who has been in shocking form. Robertson is about at the same level as Young, who are both dependable attacking fullbacks.

That Liverpool backline is any under performing players dream; they each have a howler in them every few games include VVD who is being massively overrated despite making a massive mistake every few games.

Liverpool midfield is decent (Can, Lallana, Chamberlain), their attack is very good, their back 5 is average.
 
@WackyWengerWorld
Their front 4 cost 135m!
Look, Coutinho is a loss but Jose had to spend that because we didn't have a Coutinho ourselves. Its why they're immediately spending 70m on a replacement.
If Coutinho stays then they save 70m from expenditures.
If we had Coutinho then we save 87m from Pogba
 
cyberman said:
Boom. That was embarrassingly easy to sort out.
Good man
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Thank god. Well done @septic. You deserve some life time achievement award for teaching a poster who was registered in 2010, how to quote.

Welcome to Redcafe @cyberman
 
Shark said:
We're talking here about managers that thrive in underdog environments, and managers that are made for the biggest clubs in the game. If Klopp can't come into a club like Liverpool and mark his authority on transfers regarding his superstar players, well than I see an issue with that.
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You do not see the part "culture of the club" or "balance of the company". Your point is definitely made in bad faith and sidesteps the specificity of each challenge.

Firstable, you were talking about Dortmund. The club which had just avoided a bankruptcy... They never and still do not have the money to keep theirs players and compete durably with the top 3. Anyway, he still managed to win titles against Heycknes and go to final with one of the youngest team ever.
Who did he actually sell in that team like you said ? No one. Gotze had signed a new contract but Guardiola' arrival and a huge salary'proposal that BVB couldn't afford made him wanting to go. He had a clause, he went. Lewandowski never wanted to extend but Klopp succeed to keep him until the end of his contract.

Then, At Liverpool, you criticizes the fact that he sold Coutinho ? And would have made the same with DDG... Perhaps i have an other definition the institution, but when a player doesn't want to play for the club anymore and actually thinks the grass is geeener somewhere, I don't see the point of retaining him. That's a PSG stuff. Let them go and another player, more concerned, will fit well at their place (Walker/Trippier - Alder/Sanchez...). Of course you will lost the mercanaries, greedy, not ambitious ones (Alexis) but the more commited will stay and at a CL level, that counts (comparing Pogba who already complimented Neymar' PSG with a Marcelo, Ramos or Carvajal...)

Coutinho didn't believe in the club project. Talented or not he actually never won something with Liverpool. If you're starting to stoop to Coutinho demands... Plus, he will probably be replaced by Lemar or Draxler.
 
broccoli said:
Can is very athletic and mobile and not bad technically. Who united have like him? Wijnaldum is a smart tidy player I admire. Again, he covers the whole pitch, has good technique and scores goals. It seems he's underrated in England for some reason.
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He's never scored an away goal in English football and he's scored a grand total of one goal this season.

He's incredibly average.
 
Wijnaldum has been disappointing this season. Playing increasingly within himself.

Hard to imagine that he was successful as an attacking midfielder for Newcastle,playing with risk and penetration. He needs to want to run games. Too settled into the role of water carrier.

He did well last night though.
 
septic said:
you'd have been hard pressed to find many picking Liverpool over Chelsea going into this season.
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Actually likes of Moreno improved, TAA and Ox have been good for them which we discovered later on. But going into the season, I preferred Liverpool's front 3 to Chelsea's once Costa left/was dropped, though I didn't expect Salah to be on god mode.
 
cyberman said:
@WackyWengerWorld
Their front 4 cost 135m!
Look, Coutinho is a loss but Jose had to spend that because we didn't have a Coutinho ourselves. Its why they're immediately spending 70m on a replacement.
If Coutinho stays then they save 70m from expenditures.
If we had Coutinho then we save 87m from Pogba
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No you didn't have Coutinho you had Mata who many used to believe was better than Coutinho. If you lost Mata you'd be a weaker team even if you buy Pogba, much like their weaker without Coutinho even though they bought Salah.

And come on an average of 31m on their forwards isn't big spending, it's quite low, it's significantly lower than Lukaku and Pogba combined.
 
cyberman said:
@Rob
Feck off with the net spend. if we sold Rashford for 200m it wouldn't mean Jose is a bargin basement genius.
It doesn't matter how the money is generated, Klopp has had near enough the amount Jose has had and here are the results.
Boo hoo you had to replace Coutinho, our midfield was Bastian, Morgan and Rooney when Jose took over!
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"feck off", really?

As far as I can tell, Jose's spent about 90m more than Klopp over the last two seasons and City about 250m on top of us having to sell our best player and you adding Sanchez cheaply because you were able to pay him more than us and anyone else for that matter.

And besides, your midfield also consisted of Mata, Carrick, Herrera and Fellaini if I remember correctly.

I never said it mattered where the money came from, only that Klopps achievement last night is impressive considering what I just posted.
 
cyberman said:
Boom. That was embarrassingly easy to sort out.
Good man
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5c1.gif
 
Rob said:
"feck off", really?

As far as I can tell, Jose's spent about 90m more than Klopp over the last two seasons and City about 250m on top of us having to sell our best player and you adding Sanchez cheaply because you were able to pay him more than us and anyone else for that matter.

And besides, your midfield also consisted of Mata, Carrick, Herrera and Fellaini if I remember correctly.

I never said it mattered where the money came from, only that Klopps achievement last night is impressive considering what I just posted.
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I'm not saying he isn't doing well put pretending he's working with a vastly inferior budget is giving him too much credit.
You might sell Salah in the summer and get 150m for transfers. Spend that and It may look like net zero on the books but the reality would be a squad that has had near 400m spent on it.
Net spend of 6m is worse than the stat I posted!
 
cyberman said:
I'm not saying he isn't doing well put pretending he's working with a vastly inferior budget is giving him too much credit.
You might sell Salah in the summer and get 150m for transfers. Spend that and It may look like net zero on the books but the reality would be a squad that has had near 400m spent on it.
Net spend of 6m is worse than the stat I posted!
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but in this scenario they would have lost Salah, their best player!

a low net spend means yes they may be spending a lot on players but they are losing their best players at the same time, which isn't as ideal as spending a lot on players and fitting them around your existing best players, hence building a better squad.
 
Rajma said:
To be fair, isn't it something at what Jose excelled himself being in underdog environments (Chelsea, Inter, Porto)? He tried bringing that underdog mentality to Madrid - didn't go down to well for him, now he looks into doing the same with us.
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Mourinho still brought trophies when his teams were put in the other side of the coin even if one want to say it is not as successful.

Then we can say about Pep without a quality superiority ain't doing as well.

Thing is to stay on topic regarding Klopp, he has a Robinhood people's cult hero approach to management. He needs appreciation from the media. Being at a hated club, it may not work
 
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cyberman said:
I'm not saying he isn't doing well put pretending he's working with a vastly inferior budget is giving him too much credit.
You might sell Salah in the summer and get 150m for transfers. Spend that and It may look like net zero on the books but the reality would be a squad that has had near 400m spent on it.
Net spend of 6m is worse than the stat I posted!
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Sure, we might, but that would once again mean we would have to replace our best player. A problem you haven't had in recent history other than Ronaldo. I don't think we will, though (fingers crossed).
He's spent 40% less than Mourinho in the last two years and who knows how much less than City. And, like I said, that's on top of us losing our best player and you being able to sign one of the best players in the league cheap because you could offer him insane wages.

I'm not blasting you for spending what you do, mind, you've earned it, I'm just saying that he is in fact working with a much smaller budget than you and City.
 
Rob said:
Sure, we might, but that would once again mean we would have to replace our best player. A problem you haven't had in recent history other than Ronaldo. I don't think we will, though (fingers crossed).
He's spent 40% less than Mourinho in the last two years and who knows how much less than City. And, like I said, that's on top of us losing our best player and you being able to sign one of the best players in the league cheap because you could offer him insane wages.

I'm not blasting you for spending what you do, mind, you've earned it, I'm just saying that he is in fact working with a much smaller budget than you and City.
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Spurs are working with a smaller budget than you and are doing better, IMO. They will likely finish above you again and have a decent chance to win a cup. The best you are likely to achieve this season is 4th and a CL 1/2 final. Not bad but nothing to be proud about.
 
septic said:
but in this scenario they would have lost Salah, their best player!

a low net spend means yes they may be spending a lot on players but they are losing their best players at the same time, which isn't as ideal as spending a lot on players and fitting them around your existing best players, hence building a better squad.
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What evens that out is poor Jose not having a Coutinho / Salah to replace.
I just hate net spend. Its a massive plus in Klopps column because of Brendan Rogers.
Look at Depay and Morgan. Two dreadful signings that we broke even with but it's shown as plus 50m in Joses ledger since Jose didn't sign them.
How is that a positive?!
 
Treble said:
Spurs are working with a smaller budget than you and are doing better, IMO. They will likely finish above you again and have a decent chance to win a cup. The best you are likely to achieve this season is 4th and a CL 1/2 final. Not bad but nothing to be proud about.
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Spurs have indeed spent less than us and are obviously incredibly impressive as well. I'm a big fan of Pochettinos work and if you were to get rid of Jose, I would hate it if he came to Manchester.

Whether their season will be better than ours is a highly subjective matter, but imo reaching SF in the CL and 4th is better than 3rd and a cup. Of course we might blow it both next week and in the race for 4th place, and then their season will undoubtedly have been better.

I would be very proud if we were to reach a CL SF on top of a 4th place. Wouldn't you?
 
ti vu said:
Thing is to stay on topic regarding Klopp, he has a Robinhood people's cult hero approach to management. He needs appreciation from the media. Being at a hated club, it may not work
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Not sure about this one, I might be wrong but according to our resident German football fans he was in constant war of wards with media during his tenure at Dortmund at least wasn't particularly liked by journos. Maybe @Piratesoup @strongwalker can provide us some intel ?
 
Lawman said:
A progressive manager wtf is that? And with our budget is laughable thing to say, have you not noticed Klopp buying a £75m defender or Pep spunking nearly half a billion? Klopp and Pep have like Jose had plenty to spend.
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Yeah, I can't remember if I heard the term "progressive manager" or made it up myself but it's a crappy time-saving way of saying managers who put more emphasis on having the ball than not. Managers who have the team press the opposition in a cohesive way, who focus on inflicting their style of play on the opposition rather than training the team to negate the opposition. Admittedly, van Gaal attempted this (bar the pressing) but he just didn't have a clue.

Also, I never disputed that Klopp and Pep have had plenty to spend so I don't get why you felt the need to point that out? All I was saying was that if we had a manager like those two (or Poch who, in my opinion, are the 3 best managers in the league) coupled with our already decent squad and big budget, we'd potentially play as good as or better than all 3 of them whilst still competing for trophies.
 
Yagami said:
Yeah, I can't remember if I heard the term "progressive manager" or made it up myself but it's a crappy time-saving way of saying managers who put more emphasis on having the ball than not. Managers who have the team press the opposition in a cohesive way, who focus on inflicting their style of play on the opposition rather than training the team to negate the opposition. Admittedly, van Gaal attempted this (bar the pressing) but he just didn't have a clue.

Also, I never disputed that Klopp and Pep have had plenty to spend so I don't get why you felt the need to point that out? All I was saying was that if we had a manager like those two (or Poch who, in my opinion, are the 3 best managers in the league) coupled with our already decent squad and big budget, we'd potentially play as good as or better than all 3 of them whilst still competing for trophies.
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Yet Klopp and Poch have been at their respective clubs for a decent amount of time for modern day managers and have won a big fat 0 trophies between them. Yet Jose has had two in his first season and one of them a European one. Also Jose has us above two of the managers who you rate as better.
 
cyberman said:
What evens that out is poor Jose not having a Coutinho / Salah to replace.
I just hate net spend. Its a massive plus in Klopps column because of Brendan Rogers.
Look at Depay and Morgan. Two dreadful signings that we broke even with but it's shown as plus 50m in Joses ledger since Jose didn't sign them.
How is that a positive?!
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Exactly well put, this is how net spend for managers should be discarded. Years ago I get it as it would be mostly his players but nowadays it’s completely different.
 
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