The difference Messi makes to Barcelona is so evident. No other team is as dependent on one player as Barcelona are with messi. Barcelona need to strengthen in the summer.
Barcelona 2017/18
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
No, but Messi covers for the lack of many players at Barca.
Yup. Both Madrid and Barcelona are in for a shock once Ronaldo and Messi retire. It'll bring them back down to earth especially with other clubs with deeper pockets in future transfer windows.
Real are sort of coping alright with their youngsters about to bloom and then raiding Spurs and us for whatever else they need. Barca are in a slow spin that will speed up uncontrollably soon enough. It's landed them the la liga but I don't see a 29 year old (?) Greizmann fixing all their issues for the 'future'. Certainly not in Coutinho's future with them.
Real are sort of coping alright with their youngsters about to bloom and then raiding Spurs and us for whatever else they need. Barca are in a slow spin that will speed up uncontrollably soon enough. It's landed them the la liga but I don't see a 29 year old (?) Greizmann fixing all their issues for the 'future'. Certainly not in Coutinho's future with them.
He's 27.
(agree about them having a lot of other issues)The main problem, imo, is that the board seems more inclined to keep signing players and giving them the minutes that belong to our prospects. And the bigger the price tag, the more urgent that need becomes, our squad could be "good" next season without almost spending on it.
Goalkeeper position is more than covered for the next season.
Defense: We have 2 players per spot (Semedo/Roberto, Pique/Vermaelen, Umtiti/Mina and Alba/Digne), and there's always the chance of reaching for B team players if things go dire, something this board has forgotten all along.
Midfield: Our supposed weakest line wouldn't be that dire if we started doing things properly, we can't be signing "good" players anymore after Gomes and Paulinho (who has worked well). It's either get one guy that can boss the midfield, or make do with what we already have and Messi, right now the DM could be more than covered with Busquets, Rakitic and Roberto. Samper will be fit in summer, waiting for offers but he has contract until 2020, I don't think it would hurt us to have him as a depth player. Then there's overbooking in CM's with Coutinho, Paulinho, Gomes, 'Arthur', Aleña and Denis, plus Roberto + Rakitic who should be getting minutes there ahead of basically anyone else
Striker: Already absurdly covered, Suarez may be in decline, but there's still Messi, Dembele, Alcacer and potentially Griezmann.
Biggest problems, seeing how this board works and with Valverde agreeing, is that.
1) Denis Suarez will still be getting few minutes, he's been good this season and never was awarded a real chance, we have a potential starter being wasted as our last choice midfielder, he also can play as a LW, no matter what happens, we're going to burn through this guy.
2) Rafinha is showing a good level at Inter, he has already shown his class here and is also a polivalent player (CM, RW, LW, FB, False 9, he has played there) and we're going to sell him for peanuts, we ask 35M, Inter want him but not at that price, so we'll sell him north of 20M and get a guy for 40M worse than him, that can play in less spots and "not from La Masia".
3) Aleña, in a midfield lacking real world class, but not depth, he probably will get the same chances, or even less than Denis, so another waste of youth prospects.
4) The nightmare, god forbid we fail to sell Aleix and Andre Gomes for the 4th/3rd window in a row, that will only add to our overbooking of mediocre players, and Valverde (the board) might be stubborn enough to give them more chances starting next season.
We need to drop the 442, I'm confident that now that we don't have to give Iniesta minutes we may do it, but... who knows, if we're keeping a DM duo the 4-2-3-1 should be the system to go in the future, some of the players on the fringe of becoming class for us would thrive there (Denis, Dembele, Aleña, Rafinha, even Sergi Roberto could improve) but it's also were our dead wood would find it harder to play well, can't see Gomes, or sadly, Paulinho doing well neither in the DM or the front 3.
We're bound to bad squad decisions based on the board trying to salvage their bad market moves and not wanting to believe in our young players, I don't think that will change with a new year or a new coach, it's a board problem and it may costs us a lot.
Goalkeeper position is more than covered for the next season.
Defense: We have 2 players per spot (Semedo/Roberto, Pique/Vermaelen, Umtiti/Mina and Alba/Digne), and there's always the chance of reaching for B team players if things go dire, something this board has forgotten all along.
Midfield: Our supposed weakest line wouldn't be that dire if we started doing things properly, we can't be signing "good" players anymore after Gomes and Paulinho (who has worked well). It's either get one guy that can boss the midfield, or make do with what we already have and Messi, right now the DM could be more than covered with Busquets, Rakitic and Roberto. Samper will be fit in summer, waiting for offers but he has contract until 2020, I don't think it would hurt us to have him as a depth player. Then there's overbooking in CM's with Coutinho, Paulinho, Gomes, 'Arthur', Aleña and Denis, plus Roberto + Rakitic who should be getting minutes there ahead of basically anyone else
Striker: Already absurdly covered, Suarez may be in decline, but there's still Messi, Dembele, Alcacer and potentially Griezmann.
Biggest problems, seeing how this board works and with Valverde agreeing, is that.
1) Denis Suarez will still be getting few minutes, he's been good this season and never was awarded a real chance, we have a potential starter being wasted as our last choice midfielder, he also can play as a LW, no matter what happens, we're going to burn through this guy.
2) Rafinha is showing a good level at Inter, he has already shown his class here and is also a polivalent player (CM, RW, LW, FB, False 9, he has played there) and we're going to sell him for peanuts, we ask 35M, Inter want him but not at that price, so we'll sell him north of 20M and get a guy for 40M worse than him, that can play in less spots and "not from La Masia".
3) Aleña, in a midfield lacking real world class, but not depth, he probably will get the same chances, or even less than Denis, so another waste of youth prospects.
4) The nightmare, god forbid we fail to sell Aleix and Andre Gomes for the 4th/3rd window in a row, that will only add to our overbooking of mediocre players, and Valverde (the board) might be stubborn enough to give them more chances starting next season.
We need to drop the 442, I'm confident that now that we don't have to give Iniesta minutes we may do it, but... who knows, if we're keeping a DM duo the 4-2-3-1 should be the system to go in the future, some of the players on the fringe of becoming class for us would thrive there (Denis, Dembele, Aleña, Rafinha, even Sergi Roberto could improve) but it's also were our dead wood would find it harder to play well, can't see Gomes, or sadly, Paulinho doing well neither in the DM or the front 3.
We're bound to bad squad decisions based on the board trying to salvage their bad market moves and not wanting to believe in our young players, I don't think that will change with a new year or a new coach, it's a board problem and it may costs us a lot.
Levante did a wonderful job 
Levante did a wonderful job
Agreed. I am surprised that I don't see a thread for some of their young stars. I had never heard of their number 10, Enis Bardhi, until yesterday, but he seems to be quality at freekicks. The striker that got a hat-trick yesterday was decent as well.
Their whole team looked quality to be honest.
Back to earth? Barcelona haven't got past the CL QF last 3 years. We're only in the final this year thanks to refs(PSG), luck(juventus), and the mother of all bottlejobs(bayern)
I'd say we've already fallen back to earth...
Btw, barcelona are going to sign griezmann. They have dembele and coutinho. They're nowhere near in as bad a shape as you think.
As for us, replacing Cristiano shouldn't be all that hard either. We might not even get worse. I mean, even last season we weren't better than bayern, and that with Cristiano going supernova
Getting someone better than Ronaldo who scored 449 goals in 436 games for Madrid and who is dubbed the king of Europe? Sure
You’re one game away from winning your third Champions League in a row for fecks sake
I really hope Barca don't sign Griezmann. Maybe I'm just watching the wrong games, but every time I see him play, the thing that stands out is his incredible ability to miss sitters. I know he's playing for a defensive team, so maybe he'll blossom with a more attacking team. But that will rely on Valverde getting a couple of great signings in and moving away from 442s and conservative approaches to some games.
Barcelona may have a great offense but the problem is that they lack the proper midfielders. There are brillant CMs out there who would have fit perfectly into Guardiola's Barca: Kroos, Modric, Thiago, Verratti, Gündogan, Özil, Silva, De Bruyne, Isco, Pjanic or Kovacic are players who could as well have emerged out of La Masia. But none of them play in Barcelona. And great prospects that would fit their original playstyle like Alena or Denis Suarez don't get the trust they need. The club has abandoned its own philosophy.
Strikers and wide forwards aren't that important if you have Messi playing up front. Pedro and Villa never really needed to be good dribblers or great passers. They had to make their runs behind the defense and occupy them so that Messi finds space between the lines.
But they never replaced Xavi, we will see if they can replace Iniesta now (maybe that'll be Coutinho's task, he at least has the skill set) and besides that, they haven't had a coach who wanted to play like Barcelona since Villanova, if you ask me. They can't dominate teams like they used to anymore and adding even more top attackers to the team won't change that.
What they need is a coach like Sarri, Tuchel or Guardiola himself, tidy their squad, bring in someone like Thiago, trust their talents and go back to their roots.
As for the Cristiano part: I think that there still is no striker who could replace him on his day. The problem is, it appears to me that he cannot keep this level for a whole season anymore. So the dilemma is, you cannot sell such a force as long as he performs as he does in the CL but a top class striker who could compensate Ronaldo's "downtimes" won't be happy with playing the second fiddle like Benzema did for years. A player like Lewandowski won't accept that.
No, getting someone who can be 80% of what he is for us right now. And if bayern can be as good as us, without Messi, then there's no reason why we could not be just as good even without Cristiano. Football is a team sportGetting someone better than Ronaldo who scored 449 goals in 436 games for Madrid and who is dubbed the king of Europe? Sure
We haven't been better than, say, bayern munich. Just luckier. We didn't exactly dominate every game in the last 3 seasons...
Are you really a Madrid fan? It's refreshing to see fans not over hype their clubs and tell the story as it is. We've been shit for a long time now, it's like the board doesn't want us to succeed by playing the way that made us one of the greatest teams ever, they want to do it their way and even then they sign average players, midfielders especially to execute their plan. The signing of Paulinho was the nail on the coffin, I feel like they are destroying the club on purpose and one of the reasons why this is happening is due to the socis not being so critical like the madrid fans.
On Cristiano, he still has his uses but I'd personally think replacing him with Neymar, if he plays like he did in 2015 mind it, it will be mind blowing. I wouldn't want to face you.
Differences aside, I envy your team, well for sporting reasons atleast
and wish we were as smart as you. Messi is the main reason why we atleast won the league this year, if only we had the luxury of managing him like you manage Cristiano, we need him to give his 100% in every single game for us to have a chance. Velverde is a shit manager too, he could have rested players and prepared them physically for the Roma tie but he instead wanted to keep his bloody unbeaten run in the league which he eventually bottled anyway and I'm happy that we did lose, the guy doesn't deserve such a feat.
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You've been better than Bayern in the past 3 seasons, which is why you've knocked them out twice. You don't need to play better to win but that's part of why this team is so good too. This Madrid team would have never been knocked out 3 years in a row the way Bayern's been knocked out vs Atletico and Madrid twice. Luck always plays its part but that is most definitely not luck. How many more times in a row will it need to happen for it to stop being luck?
The grass is always greener on the other side but you take it to a whole new level. If you think you'll just keep being at the top once not only Ronaldo but the likes of Ramos, Modric and Marcelo go then I think you're very mistaken.
Are you really a Madrid fan? It's refreshing to see fans not over hype their clubs and tell the story as it is. We've been shit for a long time now, it's like the board doesn't want us to succeed by playing the way that made us one of the greatest teams ever, they want to do it their way and even then they sign average players, midfielders especially to execute their plan. The signing of Paulinho was the nail on the coffin, I feel like they are destroying the club on purpose and one of the reasons why this is happening is due to the socis not being so critical like the madrid fans.
On Cristiano, he still has his uses but I'd personally think replacing him with Neymar, if he plays like he did in 2015 mind it, it will be mind blowing. I wouldn't want to face you.
Differences aside, I envy your team, well for sporting reasons atleast
Valverde is a shit manager and Cristiano Ronaldo still has his uses...
Overstatement and understantement of the year in the same post. The hate against Valverde I've seen from Barcelona fans online has been insane.
To be fair to Bayern, they've their pick of their own league and there will always be top players in Germany. A bit easier for them.
In 2016 they went out to Atletico on away goals after missing a penalty that would have made it 2-0 at home and likely killed the tie. We beat Atletico with an offside goal, they missed a penalty, and we won on penalties
In 2017, Kassai sends off Vidal minutes after choosing not to send off casemiro. Then we score two offside goals in extra time
This season, they were again denied two stonewall penalties at the bernabeu, literally scored two of our 4 goals for us, and contrived the set a new world record for sitters missed
I'm sorry, when where we ever actually the better team?
I think we should, yes, because we have the resources to replace them, just as we had the resources to sign those guys in the first place. But you're moving the goalposts here. My pick is with people going on about Messi/Cristiano being the reason for Barca/Madrid dominance, which is quite simply lazy bs right now. Barca aren't dominating shit and we're far far more than Cristiano, who's impact on relevance to the team [should be] much less than what it was 5 yeas ago. The only reason we're still dependent on him is because our playing style is built around his skillset and we don't have a replacement[Bale is always injured] or a the ability to play in a different way[something we had last season with Morata, James and the B team]
And besides all that, we're talking about what, 3 years from now?
And we have the seemingly neverending spanish talent conveyor belt and only barcelona to really compete with for it, and we're the second richest club on earth fully capable of going out and spend half a billion on one player
In all 3 seasons. If they missed a penalty, it's their fault. They also got lucky with the free kick they scored iirc. The ref helped Bayern as much as it did Madrid in 2017. How many more times in a row will it need to happen before the excuses run out? You juts make excuses for whenever Madrid go through and then do the opposite when Barcelona or Bayern get knocked out... you talk about the volcano in 2010, Bayern being unlucky by missing penalties and big chances, etc. but when it's the other way around you don't talk about it. Which is bonkers because if anything you should be biased the other way around. It's just a classic case of seeing the grass being greener on the other side.
You don't have the resources to replace them because no resources are able to replace them. Even if you had more money than any team in the world that wouldn't be possible.
Ronaldo and Messi aren't the sole reason for Madrid/Barça's dominance, but they're the reason why that dominance is possible. They don't win by themselves but with them that domination is completely possible, without them it's very unlikely. I think it's pretty obvious things are already changing, PSG is no joke, english clubs have loads of money and great managers in charge, the italian clubs are on the rise, Bayern is still Bayern. When Ronaldo and Messi go it will be a big hit for both teams and if the fans are expecting them to go and continue the dominance then they'll be in for a shock too.
When has it been the other way around last 3 seasons?
i've bitched plenty of times about our bad luck with injuries in 14/15 btw, or undiano mallenco possibly screwing us out of a treble in 13/14Why the hell not. Cristiano aside, the others aren't exactly outliers. But even if there's nobody else that good, that goes for everyone. It just means we wouldn't need to be as good to dominate
Not the words i'd use but i don't disagree with this. Rather than possible, i'd say easier
So you agree with me then
Likely, but not necessarily.
I agree that it's changing already, but I disagree when you say you've gone back down to Earth. There's a long way to go for that to be the case. I think that will only happen when both Ronaldo and Messi go and I'm predicting we'll see the english teams being back on top of world football.
What makes you think that Real/Barca will not buy the next Ronaldo? (not mentioning Messi since he wasn't "bought").
Because there won't be one.
If the unlikely happens and a new Messi/Ronaldo shows up in the next decade then they might get them or they might not. There are other clubs that can compete for players with Barcelona and Madrid.
Don't know about that really. I don't see Real having any problems, they were successful and wining before cr7. They have buying power and will always find a way to have best players. Barca I do see going through much more of a difficult transition if they don't prepare because they are so dependent on Messi and for sure their buying power will diminish without Messi.
Currently live on tv playing a friendly here in South Africa - against one of our sugar daddy teams, Sundowns.
Appalling time of the season to be playing a friendly for Barca (our local season ended) but money talks I guess. No wonder they lost their unbeaten record the weekend past - not sure how true but apparently Messi was rested because he “contractually” had to play in this friendly.
Doesn’t make sense though - as he didn’t start and other players who played on Sunday is starting (maybe he is injured?)...oh well. Football and money.
Appalling time of the season to be playing a friendly for Barca (our local season ended) but money talks I guess. No wonder they lost their unbeaten record the weekend past - not sure how true but apparently Messi was rested because he “contractually” had to play in this friendly.
Doesn’t make sense though - as he didn’t start and other players who played on Sunday is starting (maybe he is injured?)...oh well. Football and money.
I can't believe I haven't heard more about this. Seems absolutely insane to me and I'd be livid if I was a Barca fan.
Yeah I heard messi had an infection of sorts - maybe that’s why he didn’t play this weekend but he still came on in the friendly for about 15 mins or so.
It really is absurd timing. Fortunately the game was played in really good spirit, and no stupid or reckless challenges.
Don’t barca still have the CDR final to come as well or has that been played already?
CDR final has been played. They smashed Sevilla.
Thanks Eddy! My memory is shocking these days. I remembered the Valencia semi final only. Until you mentioned the final now.
You bet for Atletico winning the EL? Because your jinx worked wonderfully
Always happens. Although I missed his second goal.