The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in the top four in the upcoming season?


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Absolutely. Spurs have two players who Pochettino isn't going to count on next season. He also has a somewhat tiny transfer fund and maybe four players he needs to sign with said fund.

One of those signings is an attacker who makes the difference since Alli, Erikson and Kane shoulder all or the creative burden in their squad. Son will chip in no and again and Lamela works hard but fundamentally they need a creative spark from the wing.

What Levy and all his disciples dont understand is that these kind of players are becoming more and more an ungettable commodity. You don't generally get an Alli, Kane and Erikson for £25m. Of course that can be the spine of a team but to then add to it you have to go for more than a gamble.

Rose is a decent but not first choice full back whose currently behind Young in the pecking order. £30m. Alderweireld is a great but aging CB with contract concerns. £40m. Martial is ahead of the Fekir, Lemar etc category of talents who're all going for £65m+.
Yeah, but you see. If you only rate Martial lower than what logic should tell you, whilst also rating them other players higher than everybody else thinks, you will find that United are desperate to sell Martial to Spurs because he is not a world class talent we want to keep. But behold, when Spurs get their hands on him at a bargain price, he will be world class over the night, 100m talent in this crazy marked.:lol: It's amazing really what can happen in the world of football, in ones mind.
 
Absolutely. Spurs have two players who Pochettino isn't going to count on next season. He also has a somewhat tiny transfer fund and maybe four players he needs to sign with said fund.

One of those signings is an attacker who makes the difference since Alli, Erikson and Kane shoulder all or the creative burden in their squad. Son will chip in no and again and Lamela works hard but fundamentally they need a creative spark from the wing.

What Levy and all his disciples dont understand is that these kind of players are becoming more and more an ungettable commodity. You don't generally get an Alli, Kane and Erikson for £25m. Of course that can be the spine of a team but to then add to it you have to go for more than a gamble.

Rose is a decent but not first choice full back whose currently behind Young in the pecking order. £30m. Alderweireld is a great but aging CB with contract concerns. £40m. Martial is ahead of the Fekir, Lemar etc category of talents who're all going for £65m+.
Levy is also no fool and hard to deal with. Alderweild for Martial sounds a possible deal that could happen.
 
Why not? We've done it before. You seem to have this notion that Martial is world-class, when actually he isn't. He's simply a talented youngster, with the potential to become much better given the right coaching, and is only one of many talented youngsters out there. You also seem to think that he's in hot demand - well, he isn't, at least not for absurd price that you think he'd sell for.

As for "countless other CB's and countless much better LB's", I can only laugh really and wish you good luck with it all.
Why would we need any luck? We’ve bought better centre backs and left backs before.
 
Why not? We've done it before. You seem to have this notion that Martial is world-class, when actually he isn't. He's simply a talented youngster, with the potential to become much better given the right coaching, and is only one of many talented youngsters out there. You also seem to think that he's in hot demand - well, he isn't, at least not for absurd price that you think he'd sell for.

As for "countless other CB's and countless much better LB's", I can only laugh really and wish you good luck with it all.

Why not? We've done it before. You seem to have this notion that Danny Rose is world-class, when actually he isn't. He's simply a sicknote, with the potential to lose his England place to Fabian Delph. and is only one of many injury prone left backs in the premier league. You also seem to think that he's in hot demand - well, he isn't, at least not for absurd price that you think he'd sell for.

As for "winning a trophy in the next decade", I can only laugh really and wish you good luck with it all.
 
Absolutely. Spurs have two players who Pochettino isn't going to count on next season. He also has a somewhat tiny transfer fund and maybe four players he needs to sign with said fund.

One of those signings is an attacker who makes the difference since Alli, Erikson and Kane shoulder all or the creative burden in their squad. Son will chip in no and again and Lamela works hard but fundamentally they need a creative spark from the wing.

What Levy and all his disciples dont understand is that these kind of players are becoming more and more an ungettable commodity. You don't generally get an Alli, Kane and Erikson for £25m. Of course that can be the spine of a team but to then add to it you have to go for more than a gamble.

Rose is a decent but not first choice full back whose currently behind Young in the pecking order. £30m. Alderweireld is a great but aging CB with contract concerns. £40m. Martial is ahead of the Fekir, Lemar etc category of talents who're all going for £65m+.

What a silly post … there's much to pick out, but I'll suffice with just a couple:

* Pochettino has a "somewhat tiny transfer fund". This a pure guess, based on wishful thinking more than anything else.

* "Son will chip in no [sic] and again" … does 18 goals last season count as merely chipping in? Martial scored 7 goals less, before you ask.
 
… You seem to have this notion that Danny Rose is world-class, when actually he isn't. … You also seem to think that he's in hot demand - well, he isn't, at least not for absurd price that you think he'd sell for …

Actually, I've said none of these things. But A+ for effort in erecting your straw-men.
 
Actually, I've said none of these things. But A+ for effort in erecting your straw-men.
F for not going along with the joke, if I was in a room with you and Martial I'd burst into tears.
 
Lads, don't be too hard on Glaston, he's riding high on a couple of top 4 finishes, it's gone to his head. As a Spurs supporter that's like winning back to back Champions Leagues.
 
Been a while since Spurs signed a decent attacker too. Will this be the third summer in a row Spurs have been looking a back up striker?

Sort of. Although I'm not sure that Martial is really any more of a striker as such than Son.

I don't think we're even looking anymore for a backup striker as such. No striker we sign is going to start ahead of Kane and we don't play with two strikers. This means that no quality striker is going to sign for us, knowing that they'd sit on the bench a lot.

I think instead we're looking for an additional and versatile attacking player who can play almost anywhere across the 3 behind Kane, including "wing forward", but can also fill in for him in a pinch if he gets injured. We have Son for this already, but there are looming problems here concerning compulsory military service.

We also have Moura, who has impressed me so far in his limited appearances (he only joined in January) and who I expect will get more starts this season, following a pre-season with Poch. But he probably can't fill in for Kane in the way that Martial and Son could.

Bale would be ideal, but not especially realistic.
 
Bale would be ideal, but not especially realistic.
Heh, I don't think Bale would want to come back, but you certainly have something Madrid would want in Kane and/or Poch so i mean, if you decided to play ball then who knows?
Spurs could line up with:
Martial-Kane-Bale
Alli-Eriksen
Wanyama

All very possible in dream land baby
 
Heh, I don't think Bale would want to come back, but you certainly have something Madrid would want in Kane and/or Poch so i mean, if you decided to play ball then who knows?
Spurs could line up with:
Martial-Kane-Bale
Alli-Eriksen
Wanyama

All very possible in dream land baby

No way Spurs are bringing in both Martial and Bale.

But if Bale comes back to the PL id say it is us or Spurs and given his net worth is around 175mil and he has filled his trophy cabinet now I dont think wages are going to play too big of a role. He will go where he gets to play the most first team football with access to CL and take a pay cut to do it. Well wherever he goes he has to take a pay cut, no one is paying him 500k a week in wages, or whatever crazy amount he earns at RM. And with that lineup I think Son is a better option as it stands, Martial is just potential, Son is actually delivering.

Mou has always been a fan of the Welshman and whilst I personally think RM want too much for a Crock, Mou may sanction the deal.
 
Im sure he wouldn't have a big problem with that tbh, if Spurs wanted Martial instead. As for fantasy, i think you guys entertaining a transfer for Martial yourselves is just along the same lines. If Levy doesn't want to deal with us for Kane, why should we deal with you over Martial? Because we are so desperate for Alderweireld that you will get Martial for a bargain price.. i know.. well, no! Sorry to burst your bubble but its just silly

Where have I said we will get Martial for a bargin price?
 
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Personally I have no clue what is going to happen but I hope I'm happy by the end of the window.
 
Why not? We've done it before. You seem to have this notion that Danny Rose is world-class, when actually he isn't. He's simply a sicknote, with the potential to lose his England place to Fabian Delph. and is only one of many injury prone left backs in the premier league. You also seem to think that he's in hot demand - well, he isn't, at least not for absurd price that you think he'd sell for.

As for "winning a trophy in the next decade", I can only laugh really and wish you good luck with it all.

:lol:
 
Why not? We've done it before. You seem to have this notion that Martial is world-class, when actually he isn't. He's simply a talented youngster, with the potential to become much better given the right coaching, and is only one of many talented youngsters out there. You also seem to think that he's in hot demand - well, he isn't, at least not for absurd price that you think he'd sell for.

As for "countless other CB's and countless much better LB's", I can only laugh really and wish you good luck with it all.

:lol: Yep Alderweireld and Rose are the absolute best in the world and the only options out there

Oh and it's a good job you dont rate Martial as you wont be signing him
 
Where have I said we will get Martial for a bargin price?
I guess you haven't then but it seems, that is the Spurs way of doing business? Even if you hope for different it is likely your club will undervalue Martial and overvalue Alderweireld in possible negotiations. That is clearly not going to work just because we are interested in one of your players. You guys are stepping up now aren't you? Then you should realistically try to be going all out for a transfer like this, not act like it doesn't matter to you and play the safe game. If we don't get Alderweireld for a price we like we keep moving. If we was desperate for a CB we would just pay absolute sick money for Varane or something and be done with it. That is what you should be doing for a player of Martials caliber, but you won't. And if you don't rate him then why bother with all this anyways?

And my posts might be directed more generally to anyone Spurs, even though i replied to your post.
 
What a silly post … there's much to pick out, but I'll suffice with just a couple:

* Pochettino has a "somewhat tiny transfer fund". This a pure guess, based on wishful thinking more than anything else.

* "Son will chip in no [sic] and again" … does 18 goals last season count as merely chipping in? Martial scored 7 goals less, before you ask.

Somewhat tiny transfer fund in comparison to United, City, Liverpool and probably Chelsea. Whereas those clubs can comfortably spend £150m net, Spurs will be looking to raise funds from Dembele, Alderweireld and Rose in order to break the £100m mark. Unfortunately for Spurs they don't have several no contributing squad players like Wimmer, Bentaleb, Dawson, Chadli, Mason,Townsend etc. They now will have to sell contributing players to spend big, like Rose and Alderweireld.

Son is a one in three player in the prime of his career. That's absolutely fine but is also an achievement Martial reached at the age of 20. Martial will have hugely wasted his talent if he merely reaches Son's level, that's the difference.

As I said before though Levy won't look at what's best for the team by getting rid of two wantaway players and bringing in the absolute best attacker possible for Pochettino. He'll spend the next 4 weeks making stupid bids of £15-20m for Grealish and then when no one comes in for Rose/Alderweireld and the manager is concerned there has been little transfer activity he'll lower his demands and hope the likes of United haven't looked elsewhere, or end up with two unhappy players that Poch would prefer to have gotten rid of.

He'll then naturally have a couple of players who haven't had a pre-season with Spurs and the yearly slow start to your campaign will commence and the Levy disciples like yourself will be salivating at the fact that he signed Grealish on deadline day for £25m plus extras rather than the £40m initially quoted.

No way Spurs are bringing in both Martial and Bale.

But if Bale comes back to the PL id say it is us or Spurs and given his net worth is around 175mil and he has filled his trophy cabinet now I dont think wages are going to play too big of a role. He will go where he gets to play the most first team football with access to CL and take a pay cut to do it. Well wherever he goes he has to take a pay cut, no one is paying him 500k a week in wages, or whatever crazy amount he earns at RM. And with that lineup I think Son is a better option as it stands, Martial is just potential, Son is actually delivering.

Mou has always been a fan of the Welshman and whilst I personally think RM want too much for a Crock, Mou may sanction the deal.

Your statement that he'd take a huge pay cut in the prime of his career in order to get first team appearances, puts him in the category of Jack Wilshere, not Gareth Bale. He'd get into every team in the world with the possible exception (dependant on the manager) of Madrid. He'll expect to be paid Sanchez wages at a minimum, which is more than double what Spurs could afford.
 
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Your statement that he'd take a huge pay cut in the prime of his career in order to get first team appearances, puts him in the category of Jack Wilshere, not Gareth Bale. He'd get into every team in the world with the possible exception (dependant on the manager) of Madrid. He'll expect to be paid Sanchez wages at a minimum, which is more than double what Spurs could afford.

The prime of his career? Have you not watched the train wreck of injuries he has had over the past 2 seasons? He was never injury free even at Spurs in his youth, but now Bale is a walking injury waiting to happen. Heres a refresher https://www.transfermarkt.com/gareth-bale/verletzungen/spieler/39381

His best years are behind him and they were his last two seasons at Spurs and his first couple of seasons at RM. 29 in a month 30 next year and with his injury track record I hope Mourinho steers well clear at the 130mil or whatever stupid amount of money it woulkd take to sign him. Not to mention wages, although as I said no matter where he goes he has to take a pay cut if he leaves RM. And I feel he will be a little flexible with wages given his net worth is around 175mil now.
 
The prime of his career? Have you not watched the train wreck of injuries he has had over the past 2 seasons? He was never injury free even at Spurs in his youth, but now Bale is a walking injury waiting to happen. Heres a refresher https://www.transfermarkt.com/gareth-bale/verletzungen/spieler/39381

His best years are behind him and they were his last two seasons at Spurs and his first couple of seasons at RM. 29 in a month 30 next year and with his injury track record I hope Mourinho steers well clear at the 130mil or whatever stupid amount of money it woulkd take to sign him. Not to mention wages, although as I said no matter where he goes he has to take a pay cut if he leaves RM. And I feel he will be a little flexible with wages given his net worth is around 175mil now.

Bale will see himself as in his prime, absolutely. Injuries aside he's still one of the best footballers in the world who will have offers of £350+k per week from a few different clubs, who will all also have a much better chance at winning trophies. He's not going to turn those offers down for half the salary at Spurs.

I've never known a top class player take a two thirds wage cut at the age of 29 for no reason.
 
The prime of his career? Have you not watched the train wreck of injuries he has had over the past 2 seasons? He was never injury free even at Spurs in his youth, but now Bale is a walking injury waiting to happen. Heres a refresher https://www.transfermarkt.com/gareth-bale/verletzungen/spieler/39381

His best years are behind him and they were his last two seasons at Spurs and his first couple of seasons at RM. 29 in a month 30 next year and with his injury track record I hope Mourinho steers well clear at the 130mil or whatever stupid amount of money it woulkd take to sign him. Not to mention wages, although as I said no matter where he goes he has to take a pay cut if he leaves RM. And I feel he will be a little flexible with wages given his net worth is around 175mil now.

Bale will see himself as in his prime, absolutely. Injuries aside he's still one of the best footballers in the world who will have offers of £350+k per week from a few different clubs, who will all also have a much better chance at winning trophies. He's not going to turn those offers down for half the salary at Spurs.

I've never known a top class player take a two thirds wage cut at the age of 29 for no reason.
 
Bale will see himself as in his prime, absolutely. Injuries aside he's still one of the best footballers in the world who will have offers of £350+k per week from a few different clubs

You know if Mou threw the dice for 50mil or so I could get behind the idea, it would be worth the risk. But not for 120mil or whatever crazy price RM will ask for and then for 350k a week, no thanks. I suspect Mou will sanction the deal anyway for ludicrous money, Bale will come in, blast off scoring a bunch of goals for us, then be injured for the season.

I've never known a top class player take a two thirds wage cut at the age of 29 for no reason.

Whilst im inclined to agree im just hoping we dont sign him and Spurs do, money better spent elsewhere, bringing in the next Bale, or keeping Martial, but that ship has sailed it seems.
 
You know if Mou threw the dice for 50mil or so I could get behind the idea, it would be worth the risk. But not for 120mil or whatever crazy price RM will ask for and then for 350k a week, no thanks. I suspect Mou will sanction the deal anyway for ludicrous money, Bale will come in, blast off scoring a bunch of goals for us, then be injured for the season.

Whilst im inclined to agree im just hoping we dont sign him and Spurs do, money better spent elsewhere, bringing in the next Bale, or keeping Martial, but that ship has sailed it seems.

Oh I agree that for over maybe £80m it wouldn't be a good buy. He could easily have the same impact as RVP though so Mourinho might be willing to take the gamble.

Either way though I think it's between United, City and dependant on Abramovich's appetite maybe Chelsea.
 
… They now will have to sell contributing players to spend big, like Rose and Alderweireld.

Son is a one in three player in the prime of his career. That's absolutely fine but is also an achievement Martial reached at the age of 20. Martial will have hugely wasted his talent if he merely reaches Son's level, that's the difference. …

Last season Son scored 16 goals in the CL and League in 2,739 minutes ... that's better than 1 in 2.

Has Martial ever scored better than 1 in 2 over a season? If not, he's not yet reached Son's level.

As for Spurs needing to sell players like Rose and Toby in order to spend a lot of money this summer, we shall see.
 
I was surprised to read that the new redeveloped White Hart Lane will have a capacity of just 61,000. Why didn't they make it bigger and go for a 90,000 - 100,000 arena? The big London clubs should have big stadiums. They have loads of fans as well. It will help England in future bids for World Cups and Euros.
 
I was surprised to read that the new redeveloped White Hart Lane will have a capacity of just 61,000. Why didn't they make it bigger and go for a 90,000 - 100,000 arena? The big London clubs should have big stadiums. They have loads of fans as well. It will help England in future bids for World Cups and Euros.

Are you being serious? :lol:
 
Last season Son scored 16 goals in the CL and League in 2,739 minutes ... that's better than 1 in 2.

Has Martial ever scored better than 1 in 2 over a season? If not, he's not yet reached Son's level.

As for Spurs needing to sell players like Rose and Toby in order to spend a lot of money this summer, we shall see.

Yes Martial has scored better than 1 in 2... Literally last season when he scored 9 PL goals in 1584 minutes (according to whoscored) or 176 mins per goal. Compared to Son scoring 12 goals in 2312 which is 193 mins per goal.

To reiterate the point if Martial doesnt improve from this level he'll have hugely failed given his talent. On the flip side Son had the best season of his career and enters next season at 26.
 
Yes Martial has scored better than 1 in 2... Literally last season when he scored 9 PL goals in 1584 minutes (according to whoscored) or 176 mins per goal. Compared to Son scoring 12 goals in 2312 which is 193 mins per goal.

To reiterate the point if Martial doesnt improve from this level he'll have hugely failed given his talent. On the flip side Son had the best season of his career and enters next season at 26.

I notice you've excluded CL goals to skew your stats (I said during a season, not just the league, and even then I didn't count Son's 2 goals in domestic cups compared to Martial's 1 goal).

Including CL goals Son scored 1 goal every 171 minutes, whereas Martial equivalent tally is 1 goal every 192 minutes.
 
I notice you've excluded CL goals to skew your stats (I said during a season, not just the league, and even then I didn't count Son's 2 goals in domestic cups compared to Martial's 1 goal).

Including CL goals Son scored 1 goal every 171 minutes, whereas Martial equivalent tally is 1 goal every 192 minutes.

I tried to compare apples with apples, hence leaving out cup competitions.

Again though you've completely missed the point which is that Martial as an inexperienced and inconsistent kid is hitting the same kind of numbers as Son whose just come off the back of his best ever season.

If Martial doesn't significantly outperform Son by the time his career has ended he'll have hugely wasted his potential, whereas if Son performs like he did last season for the next 5 seasons everyone will be delighted for him.

Martial is a potential £150m player who's perorming at a £35m level, Son is a £35m player performing to the maximum of his capabilities.
 
I tried to compare apples with apples, hence leaving out cup competitions.

Again though you've completely missed the point which is that Martial as an inexperienced and inconsistent kid is hitting the same kind of numbers as Son whose just come off the back of his best ever season.

If Martial doesn't significantly outperform Son by the time his career has ended he'll have hugely wasted his potential, whereas if Son performs like he did last season for the next 5 seasons everyone will be delighted for him.

Martial is a potential £150m player who's perorming at a £35m level, Son is a £35m player performing to the maximum of his capabilities.

Comparing CL and League goals for both players is comparing apples with apples. And in that comparison Son comes off better in terms of goals scored last season.

Son is only 3 and half years older than Martial, yet you call the latter a "kid" and imply that Son is knocking on.

Moreover to call Martial a "potential £150m player", whilst Son is a just a "£35m player" only goes to further show the wild, wild over-rating of United players (by some United fans) in comparison to players from other clubs.

I repeat, Son scored 18 goals for Spurs last season, including 4 in the Champion's League. In today's market, if a club could get these numbers for just £35m they'd snap your hand off.
 
Comparing CL and League goals for both players is comparing apples with apples. And in that comparison Son comes off better in terms of goals scored last season.

Son is only 3 and half years older than Martial, yet you call the latter a "kid" and imply that Son is knocking on.

Moreover to call Martial a "potential £150m player", whilst Son is a just a "£35m player" only goes to further show the wild, wild over-rating of United players (by some United fans) in comparison to players from other clubs.

I repeat, Son scored 18 goals for Spurs last season, including 4 in the Champion's League. In today's market, if a club could get these numbers for just £35m they'd snap your hand off.

Comparing competitions where different teams are played is not comparing apples and apples. That's the sole reason I compared PL figures as United and Spurs play the same 19 teams home and away. Again though whether one has fractionally better statistics or not isn't the point.

Martial is a kid... He's 22 for God's sake. Likewise I've never said Son is old... I just made a relatively objective statement that he's at the peak of where his talents will take him.

One player is expected to massively improve from his current level. The other is at the exact same level but is hoping to maintain it as long as possible.

In terms of the Martial valuation again that's typical Levy disciple economics. Kane is worth £250m, Alli is worth £150m; yet the inference that one of the best young attackers in the world would be worth £150m if they fulfil their potential is met with statements of wild overrating.

I'm sure most football fans who've seen both players regularly would agree that Martial has the talent to be a better player than Alli for examlle. That's not saying he's better now or that he'll definitely realise that potential. However his value would obviously reflect the fact that the ability is there.

You know all this of course. There's a reason Spurs paid £45m for Davidson Sanchez and it wasn't because he was worth the money solely for his performamces at Ajax. A player who coincidentally is the same age as Martial... A kid.
 
Only if you include cup competitions, where the opposition, home or away draw, and the number of rounds, all depend a lot on the luck of the draw.

In the league, where every teams plays every other team home and away, Alli has scored 20 Prem goals compared to Martial's 13.

I notice you've excluded CL goals to skew your stats
I know, who would ever do such a thing?
 
Comparing competitions where different teams are played is not comparing apples and apples. That's the sole reason I compared PL figures as United and Spurs play the same 19 teams home and away. Again though whether one has fractionally better statistics or not isn't the point.

Martial is a kid... He's 22 for God's sake. Likewise I've never said Son is old... I just made a relatively objective statement that he's at the peak of where his talents will take him.

One player is expected to massively improve from his current level. The other is at the exact same level but is hoping to maintain it as long as possible.

In terms of the Martial valuation again that's typical Levy disciple economics. Kane is worth £250m, Alli is worth £150m; yet the inference that one of the best young attackers in the world would be worth £150m if they fulfil their potential is met with statements of wild overrating.

I'm sure most football fans who've seen both players regularly would agree that Martial has the talent to be a better player than Alli for examlle. That's not saying he's better now or that he'll definitely realise that potential. However his value would obviously reflect the fact that the ability is there.

You know all this of course. There's a reason Spurs paid £45m for Davidson Sanchez and it wasn't because he was worth the money solely for his performamces at Ajax. A player who coincidentally is the same age as Martial... A kid.

Dele is the same age as Martial too...
 
I was surprised to read that the new redeveloped White Hart Lane will have a capacity of just 61,000. Why didn't they make it bigger and go for a 90,000 - 100,000 arena? The big London clubs should have big stadiums. They have loads of fans as well. It will help England in future bids for World Cups and Euros.
The public transport wouldn't be able to handle it so they wouldn't get the planning.
 
… In terms of the Martial valuation again that's typical Levy disciple economics. Kane is worth £250m, Alli is worth £150m; yet the inference that one of the best young attackers in the world would be worth £150m if they fulfil their potential is met with statements of wild overrating....

It is wild comparative over-rating when you claim that in potential Martial is worth well over 4 times what Son is or will ever be worth.
 
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