Its easy to get away with this when even our own fans are pushing the same narrative, like with Smalling
Why so much hate for Pogba?
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You are confusing football intelligence i.e touch and vision with mental intelligence
Even if we accept that Lukaku is of high football intelligence, I do not recall much to suggest that Morata was a better purchase than Lukaku. And if he was by anyone I don't think its because one is black (that is ridiculously stupid). It would have been because Morata came from a big club which made the Champions League final so it was a bigger name etc.
I honestly don't get the "they don't rate Lukaku as much as they should because he's black" argument.
I think it's because he is so well built.
If he was skinny and 5f 10 he would get a lot more praise
The irony is that he rarely benifits from using his strength. His movement is probably his best assist.
This is it. No one is saying he has zero technical ability. It's just that the strongest attributes in his locker is his physicality and presence. People have taken that and twisted it to "media say thats all he has because he's black".
The only racial brain fart I've seen is when one newspaper put Stormzy's face on the front page when we signed him
Its very easy to dislike Pogba, he very much epitomises style over substance to the old school supporters and pundits.
For all his skill and athleticism he comes across as he plays like he doesnt give a feck, which angers them, because the games he does play well he performs several levels above the opposition, so they assume he is capable of that all the time.
My personal opinion of him is that he is very much a soft touch in midfield and lacks the drive and passion that the real top players have.
For all his skill and athleticism he comes across as he plays like he doesnt give a feck, which angers them, because the games he does play well he performs several levels above the opposition, so they assume he is capable of that all the time.
My personal opinion of him is that he is very much a soft touch in midfield and lacks the drive and passion that the real top players have.
Unfortunately it’s because his appearance is flash and yes he’s black. It’s sad but it’s true. Take away the haircuts and silly celebrations he’s really not that bad. Griezmann has worse celebrations but Pogba being a rich, young, popular black man is too much for some so there’s a narrative.
90 minutes is a long time in commentary. I did a football interview a few years back and 30 minutes felt like a lifetime. Bias also effects us all. Next time a player whose been under attack for isn't good in ball possession loses the ball......and
Its different for Pogba though. The Serie A punditry know about Pogba more then the average British one.
No, it's more complicated than that. The media gets easy stories and talking points out of creating scandals and simple narratives. There are loads ways of doing this, but a stirring up controversy about someone who plays for a team that most football fans resent to some extent (as has been the case with United in the last 25 years) and appealing to stereotypes of the lazy black man and/or the ungrateful black millionaire are couple of easy and common ones.
It's not necessary or viable for the media to stir controversy around hundreds of players at once so it doesn't prove much to say "What about Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (or whoever)? He's black" or "What about Denis Irwin (or whoever)? He played for United?". The telling thing is not whether every black player comes under intense scrutiny, but whether you're more likely to come in for this kind of increased scrutiny from the media if you're black than if you're white.
These only some of easy stereotypes and narratives of course - another classic example is the thick as pigshit working class brute, Wayne Rooney's treatment being a prime example.
Have you any research to back up those serious claims?
Absolutely right. Lingard gets this treatment as well. He is mixed of course but still.
For the media, it's price tag, haircuts and life style in general.
For United fans, it's his inconsistency on the pitch.
For United fans, it's his inconsistency on the pitch.
Do you ask for a research paper every time someone says something on redcafe? Or is just when people are pointing out racism?
What's your explanation for why Sterling gets demonised, out of interest?
Don't forget Luke Shaw also
When you're accusing someone of something as serious as that, it's not unreasonable to give an example or 2.
Demonized? I don't read the gutter press so I have to say I have not seen alot of this.
I have read loads of reports about what an impressive season he has just had and how much his game has improved
Doesn't LeBron still get a ton of shit? Pundits and fans are weird.
He gets a lot of stick from United fans yes but Pogba is almost a universal figure of hate. I don't see opposition fans piling on Shaw the way they do Pogba and Lindgard.
Opposition fans hate on our top players just like we do on there's. Used to be Keane, scholes and Beckham.
Big game non scorer narrative despite scoring against big teams in the past *cough* Every here and there hints at him undeservingly taking chance from Rashford and Martial pre Alexis.
There is a reason. He dared to leave L'pool and win the league.
You mean the article released in December 17 which showed him having no goals against the big 6? You think that's because he's black or because he genuinely had a poor record against top sides at the time?
Their narrative was his record for us after half a season! He scored against big boy before, which if ever been mentioned was used as stick to beat him as he found it hard to meet United standaard scoring against big 6! How he is immobile, doesn't know how to move around better (despite he is one of the hard worker of the teams) was lazily used as stick to beat him
Edit:
I remembered after Chelsea game, Christ Sutton tweeted something along the line Lukaku looks like he doesn't want to play. A player doesn't want to play... Does that kind of comment genuine cricticsm or outright shitting on a player?
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not really, as both overlap.
I take what most pundits say with a pinch of salt but a lot of the criticism he's been getting is fair in my opinion.
He's incredibly frustrating. Boatloads of talent, all the physical traits but just doesn't affect the game enough. He has the ability to be a very top player but for whatever reason, doesn't show it anywhere near enough.
He's incredibly frustrating. Boatloads of talent, all the physical traits but just doesn't affect the game enough. He has the ability to be a very top player but for whatever reason, doesn't show it anywhere near enough.
Pretty much this.
He's very talented and should be tearing it up, but he isn't. Criticizing his flamboyant haircuts and style is a (misguided) way of saying he isn't giving it his all.
Okay even one article that even hinted that black players were lazy?
Not even the most serious critics of lukaku, Smalling or Lingard would ever suggest that they were lazy.
The 3 players in our squad that get that accusation are Shaw, Damian and pogba, are you seriously suggesting a racial influence?
OK, well in that case you might not know that The Sun has been pursuing this angle of criticising Sterling as "sick" for having a tattoo...
...and suggesting that this means he is responsible for encouraging violent grime and gangs.
This is just the latest episode in the relentless criticism, not of his football but of him personally - not on the football pages, or even tucked in the paper, but splashed on the front pages - because he goes to parties:
...and has a "blinging house" which is (for some reason) "an insult to fans":
"Sick", "loony", "obscene", (not to mention implicitly lazy)... this stuff is just the top of the iceberg of the stuff he has aimed at him.
I think if you'd seen all this - and way, way more - you would agree that "demonised" is a fair description.
So you are suggesting that football talent is related to IQ? Bound to be research to back that up?
Shaw is getting the stick from our own fans, but the media used the Shaw situation as tough question for Mourinho. Not feeling sorry or criticizing Shaw. Depay also had quite some sticks when he was here. While you may see he didn't make impact and his lifestyle was more highlight, the managers both LVG &a Mourinho had no issue with him. He doesn't exactly change yet now at a club more suited for his current level, he shines. The backlash on players' lifestyle sometimes just out of order without evidence it is the cause it affects the performance.
I didn't even notice he was black like you racists did.
No one is saying that every criticism of a black player is racist, or that all black footballers receive an equal and extreme level of criticism. My point is that using simplistic, lazy narratives around a few players is one of the techniques the media uses for selling papers etc. One of the ways of constructing this set of narratives is appealing to stereotypes and prejudices, including (but not limited to) racist stereotypes. The fact the media can't accuse Lingard of being lazy doesn't mean that there isn't something racist going on when they lay into Sterling for supposedly being lazy, greedy, a gangster etc.
I remember young Ronaldo being classified as show pony by English media. Some players are just meant to be disliked. Pogba with his hair styles and price tag is easy to dislike by old school fans. They expect insane level of performances from him otherwise expect some criticism. I am pretty sure he doesn't care about over the top negativity.
It is interesting that all the articles are from the Sun. I wouldn't say that everyone that buys that excuse for a paper is a racist, just everyone that I've met to date.OK, well in that case you might not know that The Sun has been pursuing this angle of criticising Sterling as "sick" for having a tattoo...
...and suggesting that this means he is responsible for encouraging violent grime and gangs.
This is just the latest episode in the relentless criticism, not of his football but of him personally - not on the football pages, or even tucked in the paper, but splashed on the front pages - because he goes to parties:
...and has a "blinging house" which is (for some reason) "an insult to fans":
"Sick", "loony", "obscene", (not to mention implicitly lazy)... this stuff is just the top of the iceberg of the stuff he has aimed at him.
I think if you'd seen all this - and way, way more - you would agree that "demonised" is a fair description.
I didn't see the France game, what was said about Pogba?
Can I just check, do you feel that the criticism that Pogba got for his performances was racist or not?
SkySports make early analysis on every club and every top player. It's not limited to black strikers. I want to know the link between the two.
Half way through the season that article would have headlined even if we bought Kane and he had the same record of zero goals vs Top 6.
Chris Sutton may well have said that in games where Lukaku looked poor. Similarly there are many tweets praising Lukaku when he's playing well. I still don't get why there is a racial element.
I'm convinced there are loads of people on here only pretending to be United fans.
Apart from that the media needs their narratives or else most of them would be out of a job.
Apart from that the media needs their narratives or else most of them would be out of a job.
You read the sun and care about what they write? Must be a hard life.OK, well in that case you might not know that The Sun has been pursuing this angle of criticising Sterling as "sick" for having a tattoo...
...and suggesting that this means he is responsible for encouraging violent grime and gangs.
This is just the latest episode in the relentless criticism, not of his football but of him personally - not on the football pages, or even tucked in the paper, but splashed on the front pages - because he goes to parties:
...and has a "blinging house" which is (for some reason) "an insult to fans":
"Sick", "loony", "obscene", (not to mention implicitly lazy)... this stuff is just the top of the iceberg of the stuff he has aimed at him.
I think if you'd seen all this - and way, way more - you would agree that "demonised" is a fair description.
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What if it would be silent domination for English golden boy. When he perform badly and dropped, questions regarding him would take all over press conference? Sound familiar? You would be naive to think Kane even as United player would get the same amount of backlash as a foreigner
Oh, it's definitely valid to criticise his performances and I definitely think he has room for improvement. But I also think that some people are more receptive to this line of criticism because of Big Ron-style stereotypes about lazy black footballers. I don't think it's particularly extreme in the case of Pogba, but I think that as a black player there is (on average) a bit of a higher bar if you don't want this kind of criticism levelled at you. Probably not as bad as in the past, but it's still there.
English talent get more protection - that's true. But stats are stats and Lukaku had a poor record against the top sides at the time. Don't pretend it's ignored for Kane - he got quite a lot of stick in areas where he failed to perform too. I remember when August came and the media pointed out how lacklusture his goal return was for the August month as they pulled out stats to prove it.
It's got nothing to do with black or white and its absolute nonsense. Terrible to just play the race card for kicks, which is literally what a lot of posters in this thread have done.