lot of people on this forum seem to hate him to be fair, it boggles my mind.
Why so much hate for Pogba?
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Well that's just ridiculous. Beyond ridiculous.
Really isn't. Pogba has compared himself to Iniesta and Messi in the span of a fortnight, then looks less influential in a game against Australia than Aaron Mooy. Bar a freak goal, most people I was watching the game with didn't even know he was playing, myself included. With the undoubted talent he has, it's understandable why people are frustrated when he consistently strolls through games, not dominating them as he has shown capable
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I really want France to win this world cup for this one reason. If they do, he will be a world cup winner and people will need to get off his back (at least for some time).
The problem is that, he has a distinctive style of play for a central midfielder - and he preserves energy at times by slow jogging or walking on the pitch. Unfortunately though, he is a very imposing presence on the field and when he does those things, it's very visible to the naked eye. People look at that and say - hey, he should be running more. Give more to the team. Who does he think he is, walking on the pitch. But, most great players do that. It's preserving energy for the right moments.
The problem is that, he has a distinctive style of play for a central midfielder - and he preserves energy at times by slow jogging or walking on the pitch. Unfortunately though, he is a very imposing presence on the field and when he does those things, it's very visible to the naked eye. People look at that and say - hey, he should be running more. Give more to the team. Who does he think he is, walking on the pitch. But, most great players do that. It's preserving energy for the right moments.
Pogba has compared himself to Iniesta and Messi in terms of his ability? He used Iniesta as an example of a midfielder better than and he referred to Messi in the context of how he's treated. He never claimed he was as good as either of these two so if you think that then you're just pulling headlines and being disingenuous. And then you're going on to claim that someone like Aaron Mooy is outperforming him? Yeah cause Aaron Mooy won the game for the Australia. Or Aaron Mooy outperformed him over the season. You dismiss Pogba's goal as a "freak goal"... did you even watch the same game and see the build up to that "freak goal"? Pogba stood out in the game. Aaron Mooy? What did he do?
He used Messi's style of play as justification for his. There is a very clear reason as to why Messi is allowed to play the way he is and Pogba isn't. Just because Aaron Mooy didn't win the game for Australia, doesn't mean he wasn't the better of the two. Look at the quality of players both were playing with, it's not even comparable. Pogba is the better talent, has more ability, is playing with far better players, he should be dominating the game.
Pogba certainly did not stand out, in fact I was at a bar with Australian and French fans alike, with most of the French fans I was with being disappointed in his game. I barely noticed he was playing until his goal, bar a few great passes which he is always capable of. In fact none of the French players really stood out, they were all quite average given their ability.
Also I never said anything about their performances over the season, but good job making an argument out of nothing.
His self-centeredness combined with his stupid repertoire of handshakes doesn't help much.
When your ego is so inflated, you better deliver big time.
When your ego is so inflated, you better deliver big time.
This is basically it for me. When you talk big, act big, you should be expected to deliver big. Especially when everyone knows you're capable.
I agree.
Pogba was allowed to pla like yesterday as Deschamps trusts him.
This game it's not about individual but team tactic which Deschamps was outwitted and had to relied on individual brilliant. The Aussies played better as a team but lack cutting edge quality. Aaron Mooy had a good game, but it's not like it's a duel with Pogba. France wing play was awful and Pavard IMO worst player of both team. Clearly doesn't play like a fullback at all. Lucas Hernandez was not much better. Australia did well to stayed compact most of the game centrally pushing France to go wide. The young forwards/ wide forwards shows lack experience and made bad decision, while the 2 full backs offer nothing. Deschamps tried to free the forwards with them not having to tracking back at time. This leaves the Aussies with time and space to stretch play and build attack from wide area, by pass midfield battle. The battles on the wing was where it defined this game where France struggled while Aussie was better in the build up but lack quality.
No central midfielder really stood out in normal play majority of the play time. A.Mooy got more high light because he was the deliver of Aussie set piece. Pogba broke the deadlock with his quality in key moment. Beside those 2 goal related moment, he had other tasty passes too which is more than other midfielders of both side were able to create.
This might sound a little controversial but I think it's because he's a rich black Muslim living in the uk. Paper's like the daily mail and pundits like Souness can't stand his confidence too. I think if he wasn't making huge money, white and English people wouldn't be as hard on him. I genuinely think the media have an agenda against him. They have an agenda against Sterling for sure. This is coming from a white Irish fella too. I think the entire thing is a disgrace. United sell papers and have been criticised in the past but I genuinely feel sorry Paul, his performance are nowhere near as bad to deserve the critism he gets. When United play well it's because of him. 6 goals and 12 assists isn't terrible considering he missed a chunk of the season. I still believe he's got every attribute to be the best around. I know many will disagree with the first half of this post but I'm genuinely believe it's a sad factor of the scrutiny he gets.
No he didn't at all. He compared the way Messi is treated compared to his treatment. That's a big difference. You brought up Iniesta as well... again he didn't compare himself to Iniesta. So it seems you're looking to put down Pogba based on headlines you've read.
I didn't say Pogba stood out during the game. But he made the impact when it counted and was a the match winner... the decisive player to win the game.
Good job shifting the goalposts to suit your argument. You brought up Aaron Mooy as someone who's "outperforming" Pogba... so that's based on one WC game where Mooy was on the losing side and Pogba created and got the winner? If Aaron Mooy was such a revelation then how come you're literally the only person bringing him up? I'm not making an argument out of nothing... you're just really reaching.
You're argument about Pogba playing with better players so he should be producing better results could be applied to Messi as well - bloody hell, Messi missed a penalty playing against Iceland with a team full of world class players. So how do you justify your hate against Pogba if you're making these comparisons?
I'm not talking tactics, i'm talking individual performances. You can place the blame on the approach of the two teams, the managers and what not all you like but when the better player, with the greater amount of talent, playing in a far superior side, gets less interceptions, less key passes, less completed dribbles and gets dispossessed three times to Mooy's 0, he hasn't done well enough.
There is always a million excuses for why Pogba doesn't perform, he needs to be a in a 3, he needs this, he needs that. Maybe it's just because he isn't performing to the best of his ability.
One player was playing alongside a Bayern Munich midfielder and Kante, one was alongside a player who was considered surplus for Crystal Palace. Given all of these circumstances, he should be dominating games like these, stamping his authority on them, something he didn't do at all.
If a few good passes is the definition of a dominant midfield performance, we have very different opinions of what Pogba is capable of then. I have much higher expectations of his ability.
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"He compared the way Messi is treated to his treatment" - that was literally exactly what I said in my post, once again, to reiterate, there is a reason Messi is allowed to play the way he is and Pogba isn't. One is young and full of energy, the other coming to his twilight years and is preserving himself now, Pogba plays in a position that naturally requires more effort and guile, one is arguably the greatest player of all time, Pogba is yet to even convince people he's worth his fee, just to name a few.
Moving on, you did say he stood out in the game, right here:
Also yes, he made the impact when it counted, I've never argued that, in fact I've mentioned it in all my posts, so good job arguing a point I once again never made.
Yes, it is based on the one game that I was talking about in my original post?
I never mentioned their performances throughout the season, I assumed it was quite obvious I was referring to their performances in this game.Also, I'm not the only one to maintain this opinion. Go to the match thread and you'll see that quite a few others actually thought Mooy was the 'best player on the pitch' (an opinion I don't share btw, I thought Matty Ryan was, kept us in the game). In fact go to that thread and you'll see that quite a few French posters were disappointed in Pogba's performance before his goal. (Understandable they'd love him after, with good reason).
It absolutely could be applied to Messi - given the player's he played with and the opposition he was up against, he had a shite game. That's coming from someone who considers Messi the greatest ever, he played shite, not a game to write home about. Don't see why people find it so difficult to say the same for Pogba, he never plays badly, always someone else's fault.
The difference though is Messi is incredible for his club side, has been one of, if not the best player in the World for years and is in the debate for the greatest ever. Pogba isn't even close, but yes, if Messi plays shit I will also say he did.
Lastly, I have no 'hate' for Pogba. Just because someone disagrees with someone on these forums, it's always because they're a 'hater' or some other nonsense. Go look at my posts on Pogba throughout the season, you'll see that if anything I'm a huge fan of Pogba and have stood up for him all season. Doesn't change the fact that given his ability I think he can do much better and influence games far more.
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Not a single french player stood out in that game, at the exception of Umtiti and Varane who were really bad.
I see more hate for him on here than I do in the media, that's for sure.
I'm sure the Daily Mail hates him. He's a rich black dude. Why is anyone surprised at that and why are you reading the Daily Mail in the first place? Complaining about that is like moaning about what Piers Morgan writes on Twitter. Just don't read it, it's obviously going to be a load of bollocks.
I think this is crazy talk, I agree he gets too much stick, but not a chance has it anything to do with his race, or religion, we have surely moved on from that BS.
He came to the biggest club in England, for the biggest fee we've ever paid, and because of his personality he draws attention on himself, nothing more than that, if he was ripping it up he'd be been put on a pedestal and loving it, so it just comes with the territory I'm afraid.
He's certainly not been as bad as many would have you think, but until he performs to levels his price tag befits, and most think he can, then it'll continue, sink or swim and all that.
The bolder part is what I try to explain. France has a great pool of talent, but they're no where gel enough as a team, especially the full backs situation. Pavard display was borderline Willems debut back in the day. What can France midfielders do when the opposition could easily spread the ball outwide when they approach to dispossess them, intercept them. As I explained the way France played, clearly key passes for the crossers outside is easier to make. Yet for the final ball through midfield, Pogba stood at the top of all midfielders in the games.
Pogba surely is not performing at his best today, so did most if not all French players. Yet it's the level that bad that lose you game vs the Aussies arguably playing at their best. Pogba's quality still shined enough to be the difference between a draw and a victory for France. Pogba hasn't consistently performed and fulfilled his potential, I agree, but it's a different story, not deserve the negativity for the type of this game where he was the difference maker in a stalemate.
Tollisso was all over the place this game. He didn't get into game until like 30th minutes. And even after getting into game he was hot and cold for the rest of the time he was on the pitch. He was supposed to be a 6 to bring the ball out from the defense and get it to Pogba who primarily is a 8. Guess what? Tollisso constantly spread the ball wide to the flank where it's not working. Only when Matuidi got subbed on, France midfield started to function a bit with Pogba dropped a bit deeper and more involved while Matuidi make run creating passing option other than just keep spreading it outwide into trouble. Giroud presence also helped. Again the point is just because you have "names" and that names perform well at clubs level doesn't mean you can expect a team out of them, lest using it as stick to beat certain players. Messi situation is similar, probably what Pogba meant ( his way of talk is confusing )
I've never argued that point though, I agree with you. The point though is that even though they weren't at their best, these French players should have still comfortably dispatched of the Aussies. A large chunk of our players don't even play in the first division. In comparison the French have about 5 players in most positions which are amongst the best in the World.
Yes, we played well, but that was mostly down to the effort from the players and the quality from our few good players (Mainly Mooy, Ryan etc. - Mooy in particular being my point) You can't give us credit for playing well and ignore the contributions of the players and then say that France playing shite had nothing to do with Pogba.
Mooy was calm on the ball, wasn't dispossessed a single time, was everywhere on the pitch and was extremely important in why we did as well as we did. On the other hand, while I've already stated that Pogba was the difference maker (purely down to his extremely lucky goal), by no means does that mean he stood out or was anything impressive.
In fact I'd say Kante was the better of the two and even he wasn't anything special.
A lot of the hate comes from the fact that he talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk so to speak.
He is flashy and comes across as arrogant with all his social media stuff while not backing any of it up on the pitch.
He is flashy and comes across as arrogant with all his social media stuff while not backing any of it up on the pitch.
I will have to disagree on easy to dispatch thing. Plenty of squads full of talent struggled to dispatch lesser opposition in tournament. Some of these struggling big boys went very far in the same tournament. As I explained, Deschamps messed up with tactic & arguably with selection too. It's not fair to point at a certain player who was the difference maker for critism with this context. I am not bigging up Pogba and asking for more of the same and agree he would need to improve, but this type of game is where you have to cut him some slack. The expectation for him is for another story. Bar Kante who fulfilled his role, but was not the type to make difference in this kind of game, the rest of the team was meh in comparison to the Aussies.
I Like Pogba, but he certainly needs help here. Fred could be the one to set him on his way and we will see the best of him this coming season.
Of course Mourinho has to play his part by playing a 3 man midfield and allowing Pogba free to do his stuff.
Of course Mourinho has to play his part by playing a 3 man midfield and allowing Pogba free to do his stuff.
To be fair, Mooy probably did 'outperform' him over the full 90 minutes by some metrics. His average was higher and for the majority of the game he had a stonger influence on the tempo and control of his team. However Pogba had half a dozen moments of brilliance (two of which ended up causing the two goals) so Pogba ended up coming out on top.
But this brings us back to the same problems we have here. It doesn't matter if we and France are playing a three man midfield, if neither of the other two are playmakers it means Pogba is still expected to play that dominant role which simply isn't his game. Pogba is basically being expected to play the same role as Mooy does (while also being a larger influence going forward), and then when he doesn't he's being blamed and attacked. It's no coincidence that his best form, where he was considered arguably the best young player in the world, came when he had somebody else beside him playing that role, and that every time he's been expected to do it himself he's been inconsistent. He's capable of playing it well which is why he keeps being played there, but so far he's shown no ability to do it consistently.
I've said before, that if we could get Mooy on the cheap I'd be all for it. He's the type of player we need in there. He's not really good enough to deserve to be a starter for a team like us, but the unfortunate thing is that he'd probably be better for the team than any of our other options because we don't have any other player who can do it. Fingers crossed that Fred is going to be that player for us now, he certainly seems closer to it than anyone else.
Yes fair point, but once again has little to do with the respective individual performances of both players, no? The reason Australia was so good was down to the players, regardless of tactics it's their responsibility to do them and they did, against far better quality. It's also the French player's faults that they didn't perform. He did make the difference as I said, but I'm not going to ignore his shortcomings in the game just because everyone else was shite too, especially because this lethargic nature is becoming very common with Pogba.
Was he that lethargic though? France won the midfield battle by default since Australia sat back so much but Griezmann offered so little that Frances midfield didn't have a reference to build off of. Their widemen were so static that Australia were able to keep their shape and close off the space which meant Pogba either had to dribble his way through from deep or bulldoze through players to get forward.
Giroud comes on and it all changes.
Paul wasn't that bad, I'd put him as their second or third best player.
He has everything that can make him one of the top players in the world - passing, dribbling and ball retention to name a few.
The problem is, he seems to fall asleep on the pitch. Plays sloppy misplaced passes, shots launched into the stands behind the goal and gets dispossessed when dwelling on the ball.
If he could only concentrate for 2 x 45 minutes without switching off all the time, he really could be great.
It’s like he’s thinking about what he’s gonna be doing after the game instead of concentrating on what he’s doing now.
The problem is, he seems to fall asleep on the pitch. Plays sloppy misplaced passes, shots launched into the stands behind the goal and gets dispossessed when dwelling on the ball.
If he could only concentrate for 2 x 45 minutes without switching off all the time, he really could be great.
It’s like he’s thinking about what he’s gonna be doing after the game instead of concentrating on what he’s doing now.
Its not hatred, it's disappointment.
I’m the same, I just seem to be let down by his efforts 70% of the time.
Expectations when he came back were so high, he’d been performing at a high consistent level at Juve.
Maybe I need to change my expectations down to a Fellani type level.
I can only comment on what we see in games, but his lathargic loping style makes it look like he doesn’t give a crap.
We know the brilliance is there, but too often than not we’re only reminded of it in YouTube videos.
I certainly don’t hate him and am desperate for him to come good but until he produces consistently on the field he will remain unpopular with most critics .
He has all the profile and social media presence of Ronaldo yet on the pitch he is not fit to lace Rons boots he is a good player who has been hyped up and packaged as world class but he is just not that good and certainly nowhere near as influential as he should be,
I watched the Ronaldo film again the other night and love him or hate him you can’t fail to be impressed by his absolute drive to be the best in the world, when messi won ballondo’r you could see how determined he was to go and win it the next year he is a multi millionaire but you can see that he is driven by wanting to go down in history as the best ever.
Pogba I thought would be a contender but he just does not have the desire or application, he will go down in history as a good player but never a great one
He has all the profile and social media presence of Ronaldo yet on the pitch he is not fit to lace Rons boots he is a good player who has been hyped up and packaged as world class but he is just not that good and certainly nowhere near as influential as he should be,
I watched the Ronaldo film again the other night and love him or hate him you can’t fail to be impressed by his absolute drive to be the best in the world, when messi won ballondo’r you could see how determined he was to go and win it the next year he is a multi millionaire but you can see that he is driven by wanting to go down in history as the best ever.
Pogba I thought would be a contender but he just does not have the desire or application, he will go down in history as a good player but never a great one
People get frustrated with him because of his social media, the way he acts. He’s more bothered about his next haircut than playing football. He cares more about meeting famous NBA or NFL players instead of keeping his head down and working on his game. He acts like he’s as good as Neymar but instead he gets destroyed by the likes of Nzonzi. His has an ego like zlatan but then doesn’t back it up on the pitch. He’s not as good as he thinks he is. He’s too childish for his age and needs to grow up. Everyone can see he has potential but if he wants to be a real pro, he will have to realise how lucky he is and get his head down and work on his game instead of trying to work on his next celebration.
Has he really got a big ego like Zlatan? The fact that he likes cool clothes and hairstyles is just the norm for people of his age and background with the money to do it. I don't really hear him talking about how great he is, like you did with Zlatan, he just seems like he's a young kid enjoying life to the full.
all footballers make more money than 'them'
Evra is sticking up for him on ITV. Basically saying people just go on about his hair and clothes and they have unrealistic expectations of him.
think you've missed the point I was making. Also none of said players are the most expensive signing in EPL history. comes with the territory mate.
I don't even see the hate when it comes to Pogba. Calling it hate is hyper sensitivity as far as I am concerned, it is more that people don't take him seriously as a player. I would hope that is not based on haircuts/handshakes/clothes, but for the way he performs. When I call Pogba immature it is because of how he plays and not how he acts away from the game, couldn't care less what he does off the pitch, as long as it does not effect his game. Too many games when he comes out strolling around with no urgency, not ready to play and compete, lacking the focus to fully showcase his talent.
The Raheem Sterling one case is interesting, that seems to be entirely led by The Sun, with no-one else having any particular agenda one way or the other when it comes to him, the general public, outside of Liverpool fans, don't appear to have any case/issue with him based on my experience. Even as a Utd fan I don't find anything in him to make him a compelling hate figure.
The Raheem Sterling one case is interesting, that seems to be entirely led by The Sun, with no-one else having any particular agenda one way or the other when it comes to him, the general public, outside of Liverpool fans, don't appear to have any case/issue with him based on my experience. Even as a Utd fan I don't find anything in him to make him a compelling hate figure.
Evra's seems pissed off everyone's giving Pogba a hard time. He said that if Messi, Neymar or Ronaldo scored Pogba's goal yesterday it wouldn't have gone down as an own goal.
Uncle Pat was all over it. He looked ready to switch.
I miss that attitude at United. We got really soft after that last generation of Fergie players started clearing out.
You take on one of us, you take on all of us...those were the days.
Well that’s just bollocks.
I think most people are up in arms over Sterling's treatment as its about the guy personally. He has had a great season but they are still going after him. Pogba is mainly down to being underwhelming on the pitch giving ammo to vent about his hair and social media presence