Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Steven Seagull said:
Let’s have a bit of role play. Challenge yourself to name 5 benefits of leaving the EU via a Norway style EEA/EFTA agreement.
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You won't find 5 benefits and EFTA doesn't match with the UK red lines. Now depending on what you want, not being a member of the EU can allow you to protect some agricultural and natural resources from the free market which depending on your situation can be a good thing.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Yes you do Paul. You are always lumping the no deal Brexit loons with everybody else. It’s what makes you so angry. I think a lot of people feel differently to what you think they do and it would go a long way if you started thinking about what happens outside the m25 bubble of shite
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Of course I realise what happens in the whole of the UK. I don't begrudge people wanting a better life but those people you are referring to are the ones listening to the Brexit loons and they've been convinced that by voting Brexit, their lives are magically going to get better - no-one has yet explained how that can possibly happen and I'm talking a sensible realistic way not fantasy island.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Of course I realise what happens in the whole of the UK. I don't begrudge people wanting a better life but those people you are referring to are the ones listening to the Brexit loons and they've been convinced that by voting Brexit, their lives are magically going to get better - no-one has yet explained how that can possibly happen and I'm talking a sensible realistic way not fantasy island.
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It's pretty much this for me.

I'd like a single brexit voter to tell me what exactly we will gain? All I hear is if we are lucky things might return to normal after a few years of hurt, but what's the point in that?
 
Steven Seagull said:
Let’s have a bit of role play. Challenge yourself to name 5 benefits of leaving the EU via a Norway style EEA/EFTA agreement.
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In what sense? If it's from my perspective as someone who thinks Brexit is daft then it ensures we don't fall off a cliff and that some sort of compromise is made between both sides. But while it's more beneficial than a hard Brexit, it essentially ties us to the EU without benefits of membership.
 
Redlambs said:
It's pretty much this for me.

I'd like a single brexit voter to tell me what exactly we will gain? All I hear is if we are lucky things might return to normal after a few years of hurt, but what's the point in that?
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A Brexit voter will just repeat the nonsense they've been brainwashed into believing by JRM, Farage, Johnson, Fox, et al.
If the UK crash out life will never return to normal. I know I'll be accused of scaremongering.
 
Not everyone who voted leave were idiots. Some were just gullible. But whenever the leave side is pressed as to what happens next the answer always seems to be: "I don't know exactly but it'll probably work out"

Where are the trade deals?

"I don't know exactly but it'll probably work out"

What happens in the case of 'no deal' Brexit?

"I don't know exactly but it'll probably work out"

What happens about the Northern Ireland border?

"I don't know exactly but it'll probably work out"

What will happen to immigrants both here and Brits living in the EU?

"I don't know exactly but it'll probably work out"

What if the drop off in inward investment continues and masses job loses result from it?

"I don't know exactly but it'll probably work out"


At some point people have to accept that the most important thing to discuss isn't whether people who believed that you could wish these things away by clicking your heels together and saying 'There's no place like the white cliffs of Dover' are right to be offended when others suggest they're a bit thick.
 
Redlambs said:
It's pretty much this for me.

I'd like a single brexit voter to tell me what exactly we will gain? All I hear is if we are lucky things might return to normal after a few years of hurt, but what's the point in that?
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They'll probably talk about immigration and fishing.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Yes you do Paul. You are always lumping the no deal Brexit loons with everybody else. It’s what makes you so angry. I think a lot of people feel differently to what you think they do and it would go a long way if you started thinking about what happens outside the m25 bubble of shite
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Have you not realized yet? The ‘no deal loons’ are the ones currently winning. It’s looking increasingly likely that we will indeed do the unthinkable and go crashing out of the EU with no deal in place.
 
I've not been following this for a while but just saw that no deal is even money on betfair.

How the feck did we get to this point?
 
Leavers are not all stupid but enough of them are to make a difference. Remainers were too complacent. Younger voters especially. The referendum campaigns were a farce and virtually none of the real issues that we are now having spelt out to us were raised in any detail. Most voters had no concept of the CU or the effect on the Good Friday agreement.

The so-called issues

EU law? Was this really hurting anyone? How many on here can honestly say that some EU directive caused their lives to nose-dive? How many were even aware of half the legislation passed? They were only laws that this country would have passed in some form anyway - bourn out by the fact that we are now about to write the whole of EU Law into UK law.

Money? Did we wake up every morning bemoaning the £350m a week we sending to the EU? Who knew we were paying that? And it soon became apparent that it wasn't £350 because of the rebate. Were all you leavers wringing your hands every day thinking how much better your lives could be? No. Most people only started to consider things once the campaigns took off. Sometimes people don't really have any opinion and are not bothered either way.......until you ask them. Then the answers are not always the truth. People will say what ever they think the popular thing to say is. (Google problems with research techniques like questionnaires).

Immigration? This was the key in my opinion. I think people mixed up EU and non-EU immigration and rolled it into one. People in many deprived areas harboured the view that the immigrants were taking our jobs or driving down our pay. It is a very simplistic viewpoint but there were lots of towns and cities around the country where people would rather have their high streets full of boarded up shops then watch them becoming Polish supermarkets. You had Farage and co banging on about net migration and that we were about to become overrun. Many studies suggested that it would fall in the longer term. But people see the here and now and when they are sold the narrative of migrants taking jobs it is a very potent driver.

A referendum is a crude, blunt instrument and should not have been used in this instance.

But I voted remain. I left it late because, like many, there were aspects of the EU that I wasn't happy with. The idea of ever-closer integration, an EU army etc. I remember going into the common market and it was just that - a common free-trade area. So I can see how the notion of a super-state could upset a few people.

But whatever anyone says we were a powerful voice at the EU table and we could have influenced matters.

The EU will need to revisit the four pillars at some point because of the weight of opinion in member states. Right now nobody seems to be playing by the rules.

So overall I thought it better to stay in and try and negotiate better terms. Cameron did try and do this but was largely seen to have failed.

The main reason for voting remain for me was business, commerce and jobs and the fact that the lions share of my company's sales come via Airbus and other EU organisations.


So we will be leaving in my opinion because of a false and often almost racist views on immigration plus blind patriotism for an era long-gone. Little England.

There was a big element of protest too - vote leave to give the government a bloody-nose. Trouble is they have done that but torn off their own nose in the process.


Just one more thought. Only 12% of the UK turnover comes via manufacturing. Back in 1973 it was 37%.

People who work in the service sector do not always see a direct link to the effect on their jobs that falling out of the EU will have. People in manufacturing do.

But all will find out in time if we do not sort this cluster-feck out.
 
Honest John said:
The EU will need to revisit the four pillars at some point because of the weight of opinion in member states. Right now nobody seems to be playing by the rules.
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I don't really understand this. The four freedoms are the reason why you can have open borders without mandatory controls, that's the first thing even before creating a legal framework.
 
Honest John said:
Leavers are not all stupid but enough of them are to make a difference. Remainers were too complacent. Younger voters especially. The referendum campaigns were a farce and virtually none of the real issues that we are now having spelt out to us were raised in any detail.
Click to expand...

Research on voter turnout in the EU ref across demographics is difficult for a variety of reasons, but according to most credible research younger voters (18-24) voted in comparable numbers to every other age bracket, they also overwhelmingly backed Remain.

Trying to blame young people's 'complacency', whatever that actually means, seems a bit rich when you could be blaming old people's xenophobia.

I'm not sure the, 'the referendum campaigns were a farce' is fair either. All of those issues were raised by Remain, we discussed them in depth on here with posters like Nick (who has done one of the Cafs all time great disappearing acts after being proven wrong on almost everything he said wouldn't happen after the ref, hah), but all were dismissed as 'scaremongering' by Leave. I don't think it was possible for Remain to raise points of fact, when Leave were only interested in fighting a referendum on emotional, wishy washy, nonsense. Maybe Remain could have clocked on sooner that people weren't interested in the facts, but I don't really see any way they could have made more of an impact with them than they did.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't really understand this. The four freedoms are the reason why you can have open borders without mandatory controls, that's the first thing even before creating a legal framework.
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You have large disparities in wages, taxes, welfare and health across the block. People are worried that the wealthier countries with the more generous benefit systems will eventually be swamped. Whether that is true or whether it is socially right or wrong is not the issue. It is the perception and many citizens of the EU don't like it. Reform will eventually be necessary. Most countries would like more say over who comes and goes.

The UK could have been part of those reforms and it may have been able to reduced some of the fears that people in this country clearly have without needing to crash out.

Not now.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Research on voter turnout in the EU ref across demographics is difficult for a variety of reasons, but according to most credible research younger voters (18-24) voted in comparable numbers to every other age bracket, they also overwhelmingly backed Remain.

Trying to blame young people's 'complacency', whatever that actually means, seems a bit rich when you could be blaming old people's xenophobia.

I'm not sure the, 'the referendum campaigns were a farce' is fair either. All of those issues were raised by Remain, we discussed them in depth on here with posters like Nick (who has done one of the Cafs all time great disappearing acts after being proven wrong on almost everything he said wouldn't happen after the ref, hah), but all were dismissed as 'scaremongering' by Leave. I don't think it was possible for Remain to raise points of fact, when Leave were only interested in fighting a referendum on emotional, wishy washy, nonsense. Maybe Remain could have clocked on sooner that people weren't interested in the facts, but I don't really see any way they could have made more of an impact with them than they did.
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I am absolutely sure that old peoples xenophobia accounted for much of the result. Not all though - including me.

I am not convinced that Remain made the arguments anywhere near as clear as they are being put now.

As for Leave - it was all going to be a doddle.

I take your point regarding 18-24 stats but there was complacency across the board of Remain voters. Even Farage thought that Remain was a forgone conclusion early on the day of the vote.

I can't prove it, but reckon there would be a different result if they ran it again now.
 
Honest John said:
You have large disparities in wages, taxes, welfare and health across the block. People are worried that the wealthier countries with the more generous benefit systems will eventually be swamped. Whether that is true or whether it is socially right or wrong is not the issue. It is the perception and many citizens of the EU don't like it. Reform will eventually be necessary. Most countries would like more say over who comes and goes.

The UK could have been part of those reforms and it may have been able to reduced some of the fears that people in this country clearly have without needing to crash out.

Not now.
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There are too many problems in your post. First you use perception as a good argument which is exactly how you got into Brexit by politicians spreading lies based on perceptions, then the EU is continuously reforming so that's not really a problem by itself we are not talking about an organization that refuses changes. Finally, the four freedoms are at the heart of the single market, without them there is no single market, no good friday agreement, no trans-border production chains, no cheaper goods, no quick and simple delivery from abroad. It also means a huge increase in public spending particularly for Home office, borders are extremely expensive.
 
Honest John said:
I am absolutely sure that old peoples xenophobia accounted for much of the result. Not all though - including me.

I am not convinced that Remain made the arguments anywhere near as clear as they are being put now.

As for Leave - it was all going to be a doddle.

I take your point regarding 18-24 stats but there was complacency across the board of Remain voters. Even Farage thought that Remain was a forgone conclusion early on the day of the vote.

I can't prove it, but reckon there would be a different result if they ran it again now.
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Did he? Read the Bloomberg article Adisa posted above.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
For a starter, how does the UK function with no agreements in place for anything. Borders closed, nothing in place to cope with that. How many companies would have left by then. Sterling would collapse again.

Some bright spark will say - so will the EU - before they do - the UK effectively will have cut itself off not only from the EU but the rest of the world. The EU would be cut off from one country - the UK. But yep, the EU need the UK more than the UK needs the EU.

Haven't got the energy to complete a 100 page list of all the problems crashing out will cause.
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You see the flow of goods and services from the UK in only one direction.

Think of all those European suppliers who will still expect to have a large portion of their business conducted inside the UK. Do you think flower farmers in Holland or fruit farmers in France / Spain will just accept that a huge percentage of their trade is cut off? Do you think European banks that fund those businesses will allow that to happen? 14% (corrected by @JPRouve ) of cars manufactured in Germany are sold in the UK. What do you think is going to happen, will they start exporting to the US instead? Of course not.

What will happen is the 29th of March will come and then those businesses in Europe that rely on British trade will come to the table and Britain will work out a trade policy that suits Britain.

Personally I am beginning to think my own country should consider getting out with this tariff on US goods. Ireland doesnt even manufacture Steel /Aluminium and we're being forced to put tariffs on US goods because Merkel and Macron are unhappy because their industries have been hit by Trumps policies. feck the EU! Theres only 2 countries that even matter and none of their policies are designed for the benefit of EU citizens not living in the economic center.
 
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JPRouve said:
There are too many problems in your post. First you use perception as a good argument which is exactly how you got into Brexit by politicians spreading lies based on perceptions, then the EU is continuously reforming so that's not really a problem by itself we are not talking about an organization that refuses changes. Finally, the four freedoms are at the heart of the single market, without them there is no single market, no good friday agreement, no trans-border production chains, no cheaper goods, no quick and simple delivery from abroad. It also means a huge increase in public spending particularly for Home office, borders are extremely expensive.
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I don't think people have a problem with 3 out of the 4 freedoms. Just movement of people. I don't think it is beyond the wit of the EU to create a policy where countries could tighten things up if they thought it was damaging the economy. They could have looked at non-Schengen countries and allowed greater powers of vetting or control.
 
Green_Red said:
You see the flow of goods and services from the UK in only one direction.

Think of all those European suppliers who will still expect to have a large portion of their business conducted inside the UK. Do you think flower farmers in Holland or fruit farmers in France / Spain will just accept that a huge percentage of their trade is cut off? Do you think European banks that fund those businesses will allow that to happen? 40% of cars manufactured in Germany are sold in the UK. 40%! What do you think is going to happen, will they start exporting to the US instead? Of course not.

What will happen is the 29th of March will come and then those businesses in Europe that rely on British trade will come to the table and Britain will work out a trade policy that suits Britain.

Personally I am beginning to think my own country should consider getting out with this tariff on US goods. Ireland doesnt even manufacture Steel /Aluminium and we're being forced to put tariffs on US goods because Merkel and Macron are unhappy because their industries have been hit by Trumps policies. feck the EU! Theres only 2 countries that even matter and none of their policies are designed for the benefit of EU citizens not living in the economic center.
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You realize that this number isn't close to be true, it's around 14%.
 
Green_Red said:
You see the flow of goods and services from the UK in only one direction.

Think of all those European suppliers who will still expect to have a large portion of their business conducted inside the UK. Do you think flower farmers in Holland or fruit farmers in France / Spain will just accept that a huge percentage of their trade is cut off? Do you think European banks that fund those businesses will allow that to happen? 40% of cars manufactured in Germany are sold in the UK. 40%! What do you think is going to happen, will they start exporting to the US instead? Of course not.

What will happen is the 29th of March will come and then those businesses in Europe that rely on British trade will come to the table and Britain will work out a trade policy that suits Britain.

Personally I am beginning to think my own country should consider getting out with this tariff on US goods. Ireland doesnt even manufacture Steel /Aluminium and we're being forced to put tariffs on US goods because Merkel and Macron are unhappy because their industries have been hit by Trumps policies. feck the EU! Theres only 2 countries that even matter and none of their policies are designed for the benefit of EU citizens not living in the economic center.
Click to expand...

14% (not 40%) of cars produced in Germany go to the UK (at the moment) and as being mainly high range cars someone will pay 60k will also pay 66k for their car. That 14% represents only 1.7% of all of Germany's exports, it's peanuts.

The point is with your other arguments when the UK leaves they will have collaboration with no other country. Germany have 26 other countries + those in agreements outside the EU.

Of course the EU will not come out unscathed but you are comparing a minor scrape with an amputation. Of course supply chains will be disrupted both ways. The 27 other countries in the EU can cope, the Uk's oxygen supply will be cut off.

Trump happens to pick Steel and Aluminium, the UK exports Steel and Aluminium, he could pick something else, he's talking about cars. The Uk's biggest export is cars and that's to the USA. Ireland don't make cars.
 
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Honest John said:
I don't think people have a problem with 3 out of the 4 freedoms. Just movement of people. I don't think it is beyond the wit of the EU to create a policy where countries could tighten things up if they thought it was damaging the economy. They could have looked at non-Schengen countries and allowed greater powers of vetting or control.
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Countries can tighten things up, you only have to give EU citizens 3 months to find employment after that they are at your mercy as long as your rules aren't discriminatory. Also I didn't correct you earlier but you can't exploit benefits, it's an argument to get expelled it's clearly stipulated that freedom of movement stops when you are a potential burden.
 
JPRouve said:
You realize that this number isn't close to be true, it's around 14%.
Click to expand...
https://www.statista.com/statistics/655786/export-import-vehicles-value-germany/
Export value in 2016 estimated to €220 Billion.

The EU (not just Germany) represents €38 Billion of the imported car market in the UK, about €22 Billion of that is from Germany.
http://www.acea.be/statistics/article/motor-vehicle-trade-between-the-uk-and-main-eu-partners

I got my numbers wrong but my point stands... no company or industry is going to allow a market like that to be cut off from them. Especially not in an economy predominantly corportist in nature.
 
Honest John said:
I don't think people have a problem with 3 out of the 4 freedoms. Just movement of people. I don't think it is beyond the wit of the EU to create a policy where countries could tighten things up if they thought it was damaging the economy. They could have looked at non-Schengen countries and allowed greater powers of vetting or control.
Click to expand...

You do realise as has been pointed out many times that the UK could control/vet their immigrants if they wanted to.
 
Honest John said:
I am absolutely sure that old peoples xenophobia accounted for much of the result. Not all though - including me.

I am not convinced that Remain made the arguments anywhere near as clear as they are being put now.

As for Leave - it was all going to be a doddle.

I take your point regarding 18-24 stats but there was complacency across the board of Remain voters. Even Farage thought that Remain was a forgone conclusion early on the day of the vote.

I can't prove it, but reckon there would be a different result if they ran it again now.
Click to expand...

But that's because whenever Remain did make the argument the water was muddied. Leave ran a deliberate campaign of misinformation, and pulled out whichever Brexit they wanted to counter specific points raised by Remain.

I do think there were issues with Remain's campaign, but I just don't think they were the problems you identified.

Those were, in order of importance, for me:

1. Cameron's stupid concessions: I actually think he got a pretty good deal from the EU on the concessions themselves. What was problematic about them however was A) his decision to make his support for Remain contingent upon winning them and B) raising them as an issue at all. It created an open goal for the pro-Brexit rags to say 'look, even when threatened with leaving the EU don't care about us, and they're trying to fob us off' – the actual substance of the deal was always too complicated for people to relate to beyond that emotional level – and it created Cameron as a tepid Remainer who had no real enthusiasm for the EU project.

2. Cameron's subsequent involvement in the Remain campaign. As well as a tepid remainer he was about as visually representative of 'the establishment' as you could get. It left Remain with a tough sell in many deprived areas of 'we know that it's been pretty shit for you recently, but it's not the fault of the EU and things could get worse'. That was an argument that was difficult to make when the people responsible for it being shit were in charge. Remain would have done far better running an anti-austerity, anti-Tory campaign emphasising how much money the EU has poured in to deprived areas which brings me on to three:

3. Labour's involvement with the official campaign and Corbyn's lack of involvement. What the Leave campaign realised was that they didn't have to make a coherent argument. They just had to make a lot of noise. So they had Vote Leave saying one thing, whilst talking to Leave.EU and agreeing that Leave. EU would say

something slightly different, and a Labour Leave group saying something else. Whilst you could see the advantage Remain thought they were getting from a cross-party campaign, they'd have been better off simply having several Remain campaigns stating different things. A strong, unrelated to Stronger In, Labour campaign for pro-Eu membership in traditional Labour heartlands like Sunderland pointing out that it's the Tories they should be angry with would probably have been decisive.

I don't think you can really criticise the Remain campaign itself, it was just hamstrung by the characters that were involved with is and the timing of the referendum.

Green_Red said:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/655786/export-import-vehicles-value-germany/
Export value in 2016 estimated to €220 Billion.

The EU (not just Germany) represents €38 Billion of the imported car market in the UK, about €22 Billion of that is from Germany.
http://www.acea.be/statistics/article/motor-vehicle-trade-between-the-uk-and-main-eu-partners

I got my numbers wrong but my point stands... no company or industry is going to allow a market like that to be cut off from them. Especially not in an economy predominantly corportist in nature.
Click to expand...

Ah, good old English self-importance that got us into this mess in the first place.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
14% (not 40%) of cars produced in Germany go to the UK (at the moment) and as being mainly high range cars someone will pay 60k will also pay 66k for their car. That 14% represents only 1.7% of all of Germany's exports, it's peanuts.

The point is with your other arguments when the UK leaves they will have collaboration with no other country. Germany have 26 other countries + those in agreements outside the EU.

Of course the EU will not come out unscathed but you are comparing a minor scrape with an amputation. Of course supply chains will be disrupted both ways. The 27 other countries in the EU can cope, the Uk's oxygen supply will be cut off.

Trump happens to pick Steel and Aluminium, the UK exports Steel and Aluminium, he could pick something else, he's talking about cars. The Uk's biggest export is cars and that's to the USA. Ireland don't make cars.
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But its not a minor scrape, and 1.6% yes but thats just cars. How many oher goods and services do Germany export to the UK. Do you know what percentage that the UK represents to Germanys export economy in total? Must be 5 or 6 if cars are nearly 2 alone. Thats huge mate. How many German jobs rely on the UK market? And its not just Germany. Think of all the wine producers in the southern European countries. Italy alone is £660 million a year.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/303297/uk-wine-imports-leading-5-countries-by-value/

That kind of loss to the Italian wine producers would cripple some companies.

I know youre in shipping industry but do you understand the balance sheet, income and cashflow statements of a company?
 
Green_Red said:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/655786/export-import-vehicles-value-germany/
Export value in 2016 estimated to €220 Billion.

The EU (not just Germany) represents €38 Billion of the imported car market in the UK, about €22 Billion of that is from Germany.
http://www.acea.be/statistics/article/motor-vehicle-trade-between-the-uk-and-main-eu-partners

I got my numbers wrong but my point stands... no company or industry is going to allow a market like that to be cut off from them. Especially not in an economy predominantly corportist in nature.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but you seem to think that it's the EU who cut that market off from them when it's the Uk that did it. They could have lobbied against Brexit, they either did and failed or they didn't. Either way, the 27 position is clear and has been expressed publicly.
 
NinjaFletch said:
But that's because whenever Remain did make the argument the water was muddied. Leave ran a deliberate campaign of misinformation, and pulled out whichever Brexit they wanted to counter specific points raised by Remain.

I do think there were issues with Remain's campaign, but I just don't think they were the problems you identified.

Those were, in order of importance, for me:

1. Cameron's stupid concessions: I actually think he got a pretty good deal from the EU on the concessions themselves. What was problematic about them however was A) his decision to make his support for Remain contingent upon winning them and B) raising them as an issue at all. It created an open goal for the pro-Brexit rags to say 'look, even when threatened with leaving the EU don't care about us, and they're trying to fob us off' – the actual substance of the deal was always too complicated for people to relate to beyond that emotional level – and it created Cameron as a tepid Remainer who had no real enthusiasm for the EU project.

2. Cameron's subsequent involvement in the Remain campaign. As well as a tepid remainer he was about as visually representative of 'the establishment' as you could get. It left Remain with a tough sell in many deprived areas of 'we know that it's been pretty shit for you recently, but it's not the fault of the EU and things could get worse'. That was an argument that was difficult to make when the people responsible for it being shit were in charge. Remain would have done far better running an anti-austerity, anti-Tory campaign emphasising how much money the EU has poured in to deprived areas which brings me on to three:

3. Labour's involvement with the official campaign and Corbyn's lack of involvement. What the Leave campaign realised was that they didn't have to make a coherent argument. They just had to make a lot of noise. So they had Vote Leave saying one thing, whilst talking to Leave.EU and agreeing that Leave. EU would say

something slightly different, and a Labour Leave group saying something else. Whilst you could see the advantage Remain thought they were getting from a cross-party campaign, they'd have been better off simply having several Remain campaigns stating different things. A strong, unrelated to Stronger In, Labour campaign for pro-Eu membership in traditional Labour heartlands like Sunderland pointing out that it's the Tories they should be angry with would probably have been decisive.

I don't think you can really criticise the Remain campaign itself, it was just hamstrung by the characters that were involved with is and the timing of the referendum.



Ah, good old English self-importance that got us into this mess in the first place.
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Im Irish living in Australia you feckwit!
 
Green_Red said:
You see the flow of goods and services from the UK in only one direction.

Think of all those European suppliers who will still expect to have a large portion of their business conducted inside the UK. Do you think flower farmers in Holland or fruit farmers in France / Spain will just accept that a huge percentage of their trade is cut off? Do you think European banks that fund those businesses will allow that to happen? 14% (corrected by @JPRouve ) of cars manufactured in Germany are sold in the UK. What do you think is going to happen, will they start exporting to the US instead? Of course not.

What will happen is the 29th of March will come and then those businesses in Europe that rely on British trade will come to the table and Britain will work out a trade policy that suits Britain.

Personally I am beginning to think my own country should consider getting out with this tariff on US goods. Ireland doesnt even manufacture Steel /Aluminium and we're being forced to put tariffs on US goods because Merkel and Macron are unhappy because their industries have been hit by Trumps policies. feck the EU! Theres only 2 countries that even matter and none of their policies are designed for the benefit of EU citizens not living in the economic center.
Click to expand...

So you want Ireland to leave the EU because they are reacting to a dictator who is trying to ruin the global economy to make America first? Thank feck you are in a very small minority.
 
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