The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in the top four in the upcoming season?

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InLevyITrust said:
Dele is the same age as Martial too...
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He is... Which is why his potential value and his market value are much more closely aligned than is the case with Martial.
GlastonSpur said:
It is wild comparative over-rating when you claim that in potential Martial is worth well over 4 times what Son is or will ever be worth.
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Considering Kane is worth 7 times what Son will ever be worth I don't think it is wild over-rating.

As you know footballers aren't valued in a linear fashion... Top tier players are worth expenentially more than your garden variety 1 in 2 attacker of which there are dozens and dozens across multiple league's around the world.

The likes of Coutinho, KDB, Mbappe (Salah if he has another season like last year) etc are all worth £150+m. Martial has he talent to be in that bracket of player (let alone the bracket above including the likes of Kane, Neymar etc)

However just to clarify I'm not saying Martial's current value in the market is anything like this... The same as Pogba isn't despite being the most talented midfielder on the planet. I'm merely stating that his market value would reflect the fact that he is talented enough to reach that level.
 
finneh said:
… Considering Kane is worth 7 times what Son will ever be worth I don't think it is wild over-rating....

However just to clarify I'm not saying Martial's current value in the market is anything like this... The same as Pogba isn't despite being the most talented midfielder on the planet. I'm merely stating that his market value would reflect the fact that he is talented enough to reach that level.
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Good grief, I've heard it all now.

Re. Kane: so he's worth 7 times Son, and Martial is potentially worth 4.2 times Son. Check how many goals Kane has scored per season on average in the Prem and compare it to Martial's average tally, then come back and seriously tell me that Martial's potential worth is 60% that of Kane's worth.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Good grief, I've heard it all now.

Re. Kane: so he's worth 7 times Son, and Martial is potentially worth 4.2 times Son. Check how many goals Kane has scored per season on average in the Prem and compare it to Martial's average tally, then come back and seriously tell me that Martial's potential worth is 60% that of Kane's worth.
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Potential.

Kane has realised his potential, Martial has not. Kane is worth his potential maximum value, Martial is probably worth half of his potential maximum value.

Again he’s one of the most highly rated youngsters in Europe. Highlighted by the fact that he won the best young player in Europe award 2 years ago.

He’s also the absolute best attacker Spurs could sign by a margin.
 
finneh said:
Potential.

Kane has realised his potential, Martial has not. Kane is worth his potential maximum value, Martial is probably worth half of his potential maximum value.

Again he’s one of the most highly rated youngsters in Europe. Highlighted by the fact that he won the best young player in Europe award 2 years ago.

He’s also the absolute best attacker Spurs could sign by a margin.
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Kane is still only 24 and several years off his peak.
 
Half the maximum value of Kane?

Martial is a solid player no doubt but 36 goals in 136 apps for United isnt exactly electrifying. Son for example has 47 goals in 140 apps. Martial is probably valued around 55-70m. Kane is probably valued in the region of 175-225m (especially after signing the new long contract).

140 goals in 213 apps for Tottenham, with a further 13 in 24 for England and Kane is soon to be 25. He's not reached his peak yet and has many years left in his locker. He's a beast.
 
RedSky said:
Half the maximum value of Kane?

Martial is a solid player no doubt but 36 goals in 136 apps for United isnt exactly electrifying. Son for example has 47 goals in 140 apps. Martial is probably valued around 55-70m. Kane is probably valued in the region of 175-225m (especially after signing the new long contract).

140 goals in 213 apps for Tottenham, with a further 13 in 24 for England and Kane is soon to be 25. He's not reached his peak yet and has many years left in his locker. He's a beast.
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Id agree with Martial being around 50-60. You are buying potential so it is a bit of a risk, will he ever live up to said potential? Time will tell, so far here, no, he may go to Chelsea and kill it.

Kane is pretty much Shearer v2.0, im not sure what that would cost in todays market. But im willing to go with your assessment of 175mil. A striker that guarantees you 20+ goals a season, last four seasons 21, 25, 29, 30, good all round play, strong on the ball for hold up play, or can run in behind, either foot, head. Model professional, leader, 24-25 so will be in his prime for some time yet, long contract, lets just say very expensive.
 
finneh said:
If you believe 41 goals in a season is several years from his peak then Christ I feel sorry for the lad.
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Not unrealistic given that his goal count for the last 4 season in the PL has been: 21, 25, 29, 30. It's an upward trend.

He's also improving his technique and game craft. He's becoming far more involved in the game than he did two seasons ago. Not unrealistic to assume he can still get better given his age.
 
RedSky said:
Not unrealistic given that his goal count for the last 4 season in the PL has been: 21, 25, 29, 30. It's an upward trend.

He's also improving his technique and game craft. He's becoming far more involved in the game than he did two seasons ago. Not unrealistic to assume he can still get better given his age.
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That's where I disagree - it would be a truly incredible achievement for him to maintain this level for the next 5-6 years. That's his challenge now - to maintain his performances.

In terms of upward trends he was just as effective the season before vs last season, although being injured and therefore playing 10 less games skews the figures (41 in 48 vs 35 in 38).
 
So Spurs landed 0 targets before the world cup, linked with Grealish, a championship player. Whats going on Spurs fans? Be bold and take risks is just looking like a media soundbyte. And it will be business as usual deadline day Daniel. Bring in some old past it players to sit on the bench and some kids. He really needs to back Pochettino with some decent money or he will be off to RM and Spurs will sink back into mid table mediocrity.

Didnt pochettino say he wanted to get players in b4 pre season?
 
Scroto Baggins said:
So Spurs landed 0 targets before the world cup, linked with Grealish, a championship player. Whats going on Spurs fans? Be bold and take risks is just looking like a media soundbyte. And it will be business as usual deadline day Daniel. Bring in some old past it players to sit on the bench and some kids. He really needs to back Pochettino with some decent money or he will be off to RM and Spurs will sink back into mid table mediocrity.

Didnt pochettino say he wanted to get players in b4 pre season?
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What difference does it make that Grealish - if signed - comes from the Championship?

Alli came from League 1, whilst Schweinsteigger came to United from B.Munich: it's not where players come from, it's where they're going that counts.

Our first pre-season fixture (against Roma) is not until July 25th. In any case, even if we don't sign anyone, why would that mean "sinking into mid-table mediocrity"?
 
Scroto Baggins said:
So Spurs landed 0 targets before the world cup, linked with Grealish, a championship player. Whats going on Spurs fans? Be bold and take risks is just looking like a media soundbyte. And it will be business as usual deadline day Daniel. Bring in some old past it players to sit on the bench and some kids. He really needs to back Pochettino with some decent money or he will be off to RM and Spurs will sink back into mid table mediocrity.

Didnt pochettino say he wanted to get players in b4 pre season?
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I think that’s a bit over the top.

This team has been built using the same method for the past decade plus and it’s worked. We’ve essentially only gone up - whereas sides that I’d equate us with have all mismanaged things and gone downward (like Newcastle, Everton, Aston Villa, etc.) so this method has been proven. It’s not a fluke, given the amount of time it’s shown we’ve only gone upward. That said, is there a glass ceiling to this method? Potentially. That’s the real downside in my opinion - I don’t think we’ll suddenly go backwards by continueing what we started.

So personally I don’t think it should stop, but I’d agree that someone like Pochettino would like 1 or 2 “marquee” signings. Hopefully we can make that happen.

I’ve been following the transfer rumours closer than perhaps a few Man Utd fans have and we have had some solid links. My main issue is it looks like we’re trying to make our big signing an attacking one and I don’t really think that’s our best way to improve. Personally I’d like to see us take a big shot at a big name CM. I really think CM is where we can really improve. Although there’s also some rumblings that Poch may change tactics and formation this season which could see either Eriksen or Alli start playing deeper. Which does look likely as both were starting to do more of that this past season, especially Eriksen.

Overall when it’s all said and done I’d expect around 50mil+ to be spent on an attacker (Martial, Pulisic, Malcom, etc.) around 50mil spent on a CB to replace Alderweireld (de Ligt, Pavard, etc.) and whatever extra money spent on an attacking midfielder (Grealish) and then someone else (Barrios, Ndombele, Gomes, Fernandes, etc.) It’s not what I want to see done, but Levy and Poch have earned some leg room for trust so I’m willing to hold off and see what happens before I cast any judgment.
 
Scroto Baggins said:
So Spurs landed 0 targets before the world cup, linked with Grealish, a championship player. Whats going on Spurs fans? Be bold and take risks is just looking like a media soundbyte. And it will be business as usual deadline day Daniel. Bring in some old past it players to sit on the bench and some kids. He really needs to back Pochettino with some decent money or he will be off to RM and Spurs will sink back into mid table mediocrity.

Didnt pochettino say he wanted to get players in b4 pre season?
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Sorry has the transfer window closed? Why wasn't I told? I am absolutely furious. Poch out.
 
Sweech said:
I think that’s a bit over the top.

This team has been built using the same method for the past decade plus and it’s worked. We’ve essentially only gone up - whereas sides that I’d equate us with have all mismanaged things and gone downward (like Newcastle, Everton, Aston Villa, etc.) so this method has been proven. It’s not a fluke, given the amount of time it’s shown we’ve only gone upward. That said, is there a glass ceiling to this method? Potentially. That’s the real downside in my opinion - I don’t think we’ll suddenly go backwards by continueing what we started.

So personally I don’t think it should stop, but I’d agree that someone like Pochettino would like 1 or 2 “marquee” signings. Hopefully we can make that happen.

I’ve been following the transfer rumours closer than perhaps a few Man Utd fans have and we have had some solid links. My main issue is it looks like we’re trying to make our big signing an attacking one and I don’t really think that’s our best way to improve. Personally I’d like to see us take a big shot at a big name CM. I really think CM is where we can really improve. Although there’s also some rumblings that Poch may change tactics and formation this season which could see either Eriksen or Alli start playing deeper. Which does look likely as both were starting to do more of that this past season, especially Eriksen.

Overall when it’s all said and done I’d expect around 50mil+ to be spent on an attacker (Martial, Pulisic, Malcom, etc.) around 50mil spent on a CB to replace Alderweireld (de Ligt, Pavard, etc.) and whatever extra money spent on an attacking midfielder (Grealish) and then someone else (Barrios, Ndombele, Gomes, Fernandes, etc.) It’s not what I want to see done, but Levy and Poch have earned some leg room for trust so I’m willing to hold off and see what happens before I cast any judgment.
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If you were going to spend money on an attacker it needs to be backup for Kane. Spurs have plenty of attacking options behind the striker, Lamela, Moura, Eriksen, Alli, Son, and of course any academy players that may be ready to step up in this area.

I agree midfield is where you need reinforcements and where you should be investing money. Dembele leaving, Winks a sick note, you have no creativity/drive from this area, solid defensively here with Wanyama and Dier but that is all.

And of course if Alderweireld leaves you are down to 2 CB's, a utility player who can play the position in a pinch(Dier), and a kid who hasnt played a PL game as far as I know(Foyth).

You are correct I havnt been following the xfer rumours closely, I know you were linked with Grealish who is an average player but at 22 has the chance to grow into a very good player.

Spurs fans still look happy with how business is progressing his xfer window, although to me so far it seems business as usual.
 
Scroto Baggins said:
If you were going to spend money on an attacker it needs to be backup for Kane. Spurs have plenty of attacking options behind the striker, Lamela, Moura, Eriksen, Alli, Son, and of course any academy players that may be ready to step up in this area.

I agree midfield is where you need reinforcements and where you should be investing money. Dembele leaving, Winks a sick note, you have no creativity/drive from this area, solid defensively here with Wanyama and Dier but that is all.

And of course if Alderweireld leaves you are down to 2 CB's, a utility player who can play the position in a pinch(Dier), and a kid who hasnt played a PL game as far as I know(Foyth).

You are correct I havnt been following the xfer rumours closely, I know you were linked with Grealish who is an average player but at 22 has the chance to grow into a very good player.

Spurs fans still look happy with how business is progressing his xfer window, although to me so far it seems business as usual.
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I really don’t think the Kane backup is a real legitimate way of improving the team.

The fact is when Kane is healthy he plays. No legitimate striker is going to be fine with sitting that much and any prospect that is able to come in cold like that and produce is going to want more playing time and angle for a move.

Son has done well every time he’s been asked to play as a striker for us. He’s no Kane but no one else will be. I also wouldn’t mind seeing if we tried Alli as a lone striker in Kane’s absence.

What our best option would be is to buy another player like Son - someone who can play with Kane, but in Kane’s absence will play as the striker. This is likely why we’ve been pursuing Martial so strongly because he would fill that remit exactly.
 
Sweech said:
I really don’t think the Kane backup is a real legitimate way of improving the team.

The fact is when Kane is healthy he plays. No legitimate striker is going to be fine with sitting that much and any prospect that is able to come in cold like that and produce is going to want more playing time and angle for a move.

Son has done well every time he’s been asked to play as a striker for us. He’s no Kane but no one else will be. I also wouldn’t mind seeing if we tried Alli as a lone striker in Kane’s absence.

What our best option would be is to buy another player like Son - someone who can play with Kane, but in Kane’s absence will play as the striker. This is likely why we’ve been pursuing Martial so strongly because he would fill that remit exactly.
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For your sakes you better have a back up plan ;)
 
Scroto Baggins said:
So Spurs landed 0 targets before the world cup, linked with Grealish, a championship player. Whats going on Spurs fans? Be bold and take risks is just looking like a media soundbyte. And it will be business as usual deadline day Daniel. Bring in some old past it players to sit on the bench and some kids. He really needs to back Pochettino with some decent money or he will be off to RM and Spurs will sink back into mid table mediocrity.

Didnt pochettino say he wanted to get players in b4 pre season?
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Its not like you have made earth shattering signings is it, or any club for that matter. Very hard for any business to get done until nearer the end of the WC.

Strong links to Ndombele and the Columbian Barrios today, would be over the moon with Ndombele, don't no much about the Columbian.
 
InLevyITrust said:
Its not like you have made earth shattering signings is it, or any club for that matter. Very hard for any business to get done until nearer the end of the WC.

Strong links to Ndombele and the Columbian Barrios today, would be over the moon with Ndombele, don't no much about the Columbian.
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I've not heard of either of those, I'm way out the loop.

Is Ndombele good then? What position is he?
 
Grealish is a very, very good player imo. I've seen a lot of him in the championship and rate him highly.
If he signs for Spurs I'd bet on him being a big success, providing he gets minutes of course.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
I've not heard of either of those, I'm way out the loop.

Is Ndombele good then? What position is he?
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I watched a lot of Lyon last year and there's massive potential in Ndombele. I think he'd be a great signing and would fill the hole Dembélé has left very well. Though, in my opinion, he isn't as good as Dembélé yet so he may not be an instant hit, but the potential is there.
Dec9003 said:
Grealish is a very, very good player imo. I've seen a lot of him in the championship and rate him highly.
If he signs for Spurs I'd bet on him being a big success, providing he gets minutes of course.
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I agree. Looks like he's sorted out whatever problems he had off the pitch, and has become consistent on it. If he stays trouble free and Spurs do buy him, I can see him becoming a 1st teamer in no time. I really have been impressed by him in the season just gone. So much so that I'd take him here.
 
charlenefan said:
For your sakes you better have a back up plan ;)
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Yeah it’s not looking likely is it?

I would guess the backup plan would be Pulisic, Malcom, or Lozano. Problem being that pretty much cements Son as the backup so there’s not much room for them both to be injured.
 
Dec9003 said:
Grealish is a very, very good player imo. I've seen a lot of him in the championship and rate him highly.
If he signs for Spurs I'd bet on him being a big success, providing he gets minutes of course.
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I'd say he's worth a gamble. Not convinced it'll pay off.
 
Dec9003 said:
Grealish is a very, very good player imo. I've seen a lot of him in the championship and rate him highly.
If he signs for Spurs I'd bet on him being a big success, providing he gets minutes of course.
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I would bet him being a complete flop.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Righty-ho. You'd best crack on then and tell the United board about their two options:

1) Force an unhappy, bit-part player to stay and then have to sell him for peanuts next summer with 1 year left on his contract (if now extended).

2) Make a loss on what you've paid for him by selling to anyone but Spurs.

I'm sure they'll be so pleased with your business acumen that a seat at the table will be offered immediately.
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The exact same can be said about Toby and Spurs.
 
InLevyITrust said:
Its not like you have made earth shattering signings is it, or any club for that matter. Very hard for any business to get done until nearer the end of the WC.

Strong links to Ndombele and the Columbian Barrios today, would be over the moon with Ndombele, don't no much about the Columbian.
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Well tbf we are not 'being bold and taking risks', it will be business as usual for Jose.

I honestly dont expect much this window, I expect Mou to tweak what he has and move some of the second and third string on that are not part of his plans going forward.

As for incoming? Obviously Fred, Id be happy with a midfield of Fred, Pogba, Matic. Apart from that the link to Alderweireld that has been discussed, again I'd be happy with our main CB pairing being Alderweireld and Bailly. And then maybe Sandro to come in as our LWB.

Seems every window we are linked with Bale, not for me, but I understand how some MU fans get excited. For the money RM will want he is too injury prone and 30 next year, for the right price by all means. But rumour was 130mil or so, no thanks.
 
Nikhil said:
I was surprised to read that the new redeveloped White Hart Lane will have a capacity of just 61,000. Why didn't they make it bigger and go for a 90,000 - 100,000 arena? The big London clubs should have big stadiums. They have loads of fans as well. It will help England in future bids for World Cups and Euros.
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The correct number is 62,062 last I checked.
Hopefully larger than the dippers and Citeh by the time they're done expanding.
 
Nikhil said:
Surely Spurs can fill the Lane with 85,000 fans for the Premiership in the middle of London? You have a lot of fans just in and around London, never mind outside the City.
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Been mentioned before, but had to do with transportation so we weren't allowed to make it bigger.
 
Nikhil said:
Surely Spurs can fill the Lane with 85,000 fans for the Premiership in the middle of London? You have a lot of fans just in and around London, never mind outside the City.
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I don't know whether you are serious or joking but even the biggest clubs struggle to fill 85000 fans regularly to their stadium on normal match days , Spurs simply aren't there yet very unlikely they can get that kind of numbers.
 
gajender said:
I don't know whether you are serious or joking but even the biggest clubs struggle to fill 85000 fans regularly to their stadium on normal match days , Spurs simply aren't there yet very unlikely they can get that kind of numbers.
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http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-premier-league-2017-2018/1/

That's the average *official attendances last season in the PL, we are second with 68,000 only behind United with 75,000. I'd say the new stadium capacity is bang on, if I remember right there is sections designed for safe standing if it ever gets the go ahead which allow an increased capacity.
 
InLevyITrust said:
http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-premier-league-2017-2018/1/

That's the average *official attendances last season in the PL, we are second with 68,000 only behind United with 75,000. I'd say the new stadium capacity is bang on, if I remember right there is sections designed for safe standing if it ever gets the go ahead which allow an increased capacity.
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Well that's my point 85000 seater doesn't make sense for Spur's may not be viable option for United either without even going into logistics involved in such expansion , 62000 capacity may just about be right as you mentioned.
 
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