Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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Vince Cable's career from 2010 onwards is a case-study on how to go from a respected politician to a joke. The whole strategy of his leadership of the Lib Dems has been to cast off the idea that they are ghoulish opportunists with no principles by turning them into a single-issue party to try and galvanise Remainers against Brexit.

It was already going to be a big ask for the LDs to sway Labour-voting Remainers given the fact that their ghoulish opportunism set the stage for 8 years of Tory shit, including the calling of the referendum in the first place. But on top of that, at the single moment where he had a chance to really land a blow on Brexit he misses the vote because he's planning another act of ghoulish opportunism.
 
Dobba said:
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Well it might explain why Cable missed the vote, although I suspect his meeting couldn't have been all that important as no prospective Conservative or Labour allies seem to have missed the votes in the same way.

As for anyone having a go at Cable for slipping on his anti-Brexit credentials, that would be fair unless you're one of those who voted Conservative or Labour in the last general election, both of which enshrined Brexit in their manifestos. Even if Cable is an imperfect Remainer he's a fecking sight better than May and Corbyn, both of whom stood for Brexit. If you did vote Conservative or Labour then you can have no claim to oppose Brexit now.
 
711 said:
Well it might explain why Cable missed the vote, although I suspect his meeting couldn't have been all that important as no prospective Conservative or Labour allies seem to have missed the votes in the same way.

As for anyone having a go at Cable for slipping on his anti-Brexit credentials, that would be fair unless you're one of those who voted Conservative or Labour in the last general election, both of which enshrined Brexit in their manifestos. Even if Cable is an imperfect Remainer he's a fecking sight better than May and Corbyn, both of whom stood for Brexit. If you did vote Conservative or Labour then you can have no claim to oppose Brexit now.
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Except it’s a bit more complicated than that surely? Brexit was not the only issue and clearly large amounts of remainers voted for those parties. That is not a disonant position.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
Except it’s a bit more complicated than that surely? Brexit was not the only issue and clearly large amounts of remainers voted for those parties. That is not a disonant position.
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I don't know what disonant means, but when I read this thread I get the impression that Brexit is far and away the biggest national issue, by a country mile. If any of the large number of remainers that voted for those parties are saying they regret it then fair play to them. God knows we all make mistakes. Not many seem capable of that though, for whatever reason, it's all somebody else's fault, their vote didn't count.
 
711 said:
I don't know what disonant means, but when I read this thread I get the impression that Brexit is far and away the biggest national issue, by a country mile. If any of the large number of remainers that voted for those parties are saying they regret it then fair play to them. God knows we all make mistakes. Not many seem capable of that though, for whatever reason, it's all somebody else's fault, their vote didn't count.
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Brexit was indeed a massive issue, but, for instance, many remainers will have voted Labour in an effort to oust a right wing Tory party, a position the realtively weak Liberals would never have been able to do. Removing the Tories (partly because thier internal politics caused Brexit in the first place) was as important to many as Brexit...and had Labour won (a primarily Remain parliamentary party) who knows what would have happened regarding Brexit...certainly it would, at the least, not have been hard.
 
Bury Red said:
:lol:

Scarfolk has always been eerily like Brexit Britain anyway, good to see the government finally acknowledging it.


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In fact worryingly it looks like it might be where the government are getting all their ideas

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created 18 months before the Windrush scandal broke
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Good damn it the internet has me at the point where I don't know if this is satire or an honest opinion. I want that reality back where I can clearly say a stupid exaggeration is satire and not a real political opinion someone holds.
 
711 said:
As for anyone having a go at Cable for slipping on his anti-Brexit credentials, that would be fair unless you're one of those who voted Conservative or Labour in the last general election, both of which enshrined Brexit in their manifestos. Even if Cable is an imperfect Remainer he's a fecking sight better than May and Corbyn, both of whom stood for Brexit. If you did vote Conservative or Labour then you can have no claim to oppose Brexit now.
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Depends on your MP, I guess. I voted Labour (in a Labour safe seat) because my MP has been clear in continuing to fight for the UK to remain in the EU. In the GM Mayoral election, I couldn’t vote for Burnham after his EU voting record post-Brexit referendum. The quality I most admire in a elected representative is to fight to do the right thing, even if that may be not the most popular thing and you may have a struggle to win your electorate over. I’ve lost respect for so many elected officials who are seemingly willing to engage in such a monumental act of national self harm due to a narrow, purely advisory, referendum defeat. Some of the indifference and hand washing has been extraordinary.
 
NoLogo said:
Good damn it the internet has me at the point where I don't know if this is satire or an honest opinion. I want that reality back where I can clearly say a stupid exaggeration is satire and not a real political opinion someone holds.
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The fact is that it's both. Satire only really works if it's based in reality.
 
Big-Red said:
A new Ferry corridor is mentioned in the EU proposal. Planning for everything.

*seeing southern ireland written down breaks my heart a little bit. We're just Ireland...
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When I heard May refer to Northern Ireland and then mention the "Northern and Southern areas", I wondered if she was talking about the southern parts of Northern Ireland, or whether she realises theres actually two countries. Shes a fecking mole.
 
Tarrou said:
If we do a soft brexit does that mean we'd have to adhere to the EU's new tax regulations next year? Can't see it being anything other than hard brexit if that was the case.
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That common rule book that May put forward will never work. It would work at the beginning but as soon as a few new changes in customs regs or tax regs or manufacturing / product standards came through and Westminster voted them down there would be deviation from the original rule book and the 27 will not accept that. So dont even worry about it. Thats never going to be accepted.
 
Latest Sunday Times poll:

Call it all off and Remain: 50%

Leave: 38%

May's white paper Brexit: 11%


Once 2nd preferences were taken into account - Remain 54% - No Deal Brexit 46%


What's worrying is that survey found 24% willing to vote for an explicitly far-right, anti-Islam, anti-immigrant party.
 
Oscie said:
Latest Sunday Times poll:

Call it all off and Remain: 50%

Leave: 38%

May's white paper Brexit: 11%


Once 2nd preferences were taken into account - Remain 54% - No Deal Brexit 46%


What's worrying is that survey found 24% willing to vote for an explicitly far-right, anti-Islam, anti-immigrant party.
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Thats quite shocking
How do you react to that? How do you minimise the damage that would be done?
 
Oscie said:
Latest Sunday Times poll:

Call it all off and Remain: 50%

Leave: 38%

May's white paper Brexit: 11%


Once 2nd preferences were taken into account - Remain 54% - No Deal Brexit 46%


What's worrying is that survey found 24% willing to vote for an explicitly far-right, anti-Islam, anti-immigrant party.
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That's the normal level at the moment in Europe.
 
caid said:
Thats quite shocking
How do you react to that? How do you minimise the damage that would be done?
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I think you react by start defending mainstream moderate voices, institutions, the rule of law, experts and properly sourced and responsible journalism. And by viewing those who seem hell bent on making you think that anything 'establishment' is wicked, evil, corrupt and out to get you, with more suspicion than the thing they're asking you to be suspicious of.

Personally I think one of the reasons why people find extremists so appealing is that so few are represented by anyone on the front-line of mainstream politics. To put it nicely, both the political agendas and/or ideologies of the front benches of both main parties are an acquired taste right now and that creates a vacuum as significant swathes of the population are not really represented. I know that there always are people who don't feel represented by the two main parties but I've never known as much disillusionment. Combine that with Brexit where 50%+ of the entire country are completely unrepresented at all as both main parties are on the same page.
 
Member of Parliament for Mid Bedfordshire.

On another note, government will soon start stockpiling food.
 
fcbforever said:
I can answer her question: none. You can’t remain in the costums union and do independent trade deals. That’s the very principle of it. It’s NOT a free trade area.
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That isn't true. Countries inside the Customs Union are free to make as many trade arrangements with those outside of the Customs Union as they want - and do.
 
Oscie said:
That isn't true. Countries inside the Customs Union are free to make as many trade arrangements with those outside of the Customs Union as they want - and do.
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Like who? They are all EU members other than the micro-states and Turkey.

Note: A precondition of the customs union is that the European Commission negotiates for and on behalf of the Union as a whole in international trade deals such as the World Trade Organisation, rather than each member state negotiating individually.

That's why the UK want to leave it.
 
From their pov, there's no point extending the deadline of our demands are still unrealistic.
 
Adisa said:
From their pov, there's no point extending the deadline of our demands are still unrealistic.
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Yup, why allow time for more of the same bullshit.

On the bright side, we might get more time for another election or referendum.
 
Rees-Mogg’s investment firm that he part owns has launched a second Irish hedge fund to avoid Brexit carnage.
 
Oscie said:
That isn't true. Countries inside the Customs Union are free to make as many trade arrangements with those outside of the Customs Union as they want - and do.
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Oh yes it’s true. Come on, name all those trade deals done independently from the EU. By the way, this is one of the very reasons cited for Brexit.
 
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vidic blood & sand said:
He has never said that he wanted the PM job while he is a backbencher. I think a backbencher has only gone straight into number 10 once. I could be wrong. Too say that JRMs motives are purely selfish regarding brexit, is ridiculous. He's a principled Catholic, and has come under fire for his religious views. He's also back May and her government.
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So? If you think someone simply being Catholic is a reason to trust them then you either have no expose to the Catholic Church or don't want to realise the pure evil visited upon mainly children by the church. My point is that being a Catholic doesn't make you any more or less likely to be selfish or trustworthy than an Muslim or an Atheist.

Let's remember that "no deal" hurts both parties. The EU gets no money, and the trade arrangement will hurt them as much or more than us. We can trade with the EU under WTO rules, but both sides won't want this. The EU's biggest advantage is that Westminster is mostly for remain, and that's where the EU is wanting brexit to defeated. They want parliament to undermine brexit, and do their work for them.
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The EU wants us to remain but if we insist on leaving then they want us to leave on the date we decided to leave. Why would they allow us to carry on proposing stuff that is never going to be acceptable for another 2 years? To extend takes the agreement of all 27 members and it is going to take a commitment to another referendum at the very least for them all to agree to let us have longer to get our shit together.

David Davies briefed government about a no deal brexit just before he resigned. There are pans in place on our side.
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David Davis and plans are 2 things you don't really associate with each other.

Do you think they'll really move?
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Some companies will and those who stay may do for a shorter period than they would otherwise. Those that stay will on average invest less.

Do you underestimate the size of the British economy?
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No. I'm sure everyone knows we contribute about 6% of EU GDP.

No, that's just your own fears telling you this, because you live abroad. The opportunities are exciting.
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