Liverpool's squad now even with United's?

They've had a good summer on paper, but until this translates onto the pitch it's hard to say. I'd argue that:

DDG > Alisson

Valencia = TAA
Smalling < VVD
Bailly > Lovren
Young < Robertson

Matic > Fabinho
Pogba > Keita
Fred > Henderson

Lingard < Mane
Sanchez < Salah
Lukaku > Firmino

So, defensive units similar, our midfield stronger and their attack over ours. Where I would argue they comfortably have us pipped is team unity. The above is purely based on individuals. They have a genuine first choice CB pairing that's been working, and nothing else needs to be said about their attacking trio. If Klopp can get the same unison out of his midfield as he does other areas of the pitch, they'll be a very strong side.

We, for the record, have virtually zero team unity across the squad. Probably why Jose was annoyed about doing preseason without his main starters.
 
Burrow said:
Fair enough on your end, I'd much rather have any of our CBs over Lovren though. I have no real issue with anything you said really, it's all a matter of opinion and personal preference. I think it's very even all over the pitch, so I think a combined XI would be a matter of bias rather than a massive gap in ability.
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Yeah definitely. My combined XI would probably leave Sanchez out, but that's not because Mane is a better player, but because I know how well he plays with the other two.

Lovren is responsible for more mistakes than an abortion clinic, but he has tidied up his act. I wouldn't begrudge anyone calling him a tad naff :lol:

FWIW, my combined XI under JK would be...

DDG
TAA/Dalot, Baily, VVD, Robertson
Matic
Pogba Keita
Salah Firmino Mane/Sanchez

I don't know if Sanchez would do better in our system than Mane, but he is an absolutely world class player, no doubt about it. Dalot/Keita are tentative mentions, as we'll have to see how they do in their first season, but from what I've seen of Kieta, he'll have little issues fitting in.
 
Squad about the same level. Their manager will get more out of their squad though. That will be the difference.
 
Adisa said:
Squad about the same level. Their manager will get more out of their squad though. That will be the difference.
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This.

They're a real team in the way they play together. We've always looked like a collection of good players under Jose.
 
Depends on how Keita and Fabinho work out for them. But even if they turn out great, I'd say we have a bit more individual quality overall.

They will certainly play better football.
 
marktan said:
Mane - Firmino - Salah >>>>> Alexis - Lukaku - Lingard - 90 goals to 50 goals last season

Midfield we were better but Matic - Pogba - Fred could now be similar to Keita - Fabinho - Wjnaldum

Full backs - TAA & Robertson >> Young and Valencia

CB - Van Djik & Lovren a similar level to Bailly / Smalling

GK - De Gea > Allison but Allison could be very good.

So they have a far better attack than us, better full backs, similar level on CBs, and their GK and midfield could very well end up being as good as ours with the new signings.

The thing is even without all their signings, that front 3 alone is deadly. We just don't have anything close to that.
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Sanchez is better than Mane and I'd prefer Lukaku over Firmino. They function better than we do, that's it.

Our midfield is better than theirs and our keeper is better than theirs, while our overall options at CB are better, with VVD and Bailly being the pick of the punch.

To say their starting XI is better than ours is hypobolic bullshit.

If you said theirs is slightly better than ours then fair enough, but no, it seems you can't make a point here without going stupidly over the top.
 
Liverpool main weakness is Right Back, I don’t rate TAA he has no positional sense what so ever, to me it’s something that you have not something that can be coached into a player, there other weakness is back up to
Mane, Firmino & Salah as Lallana, Sturridge & Shaqiri is a big drop in quality
 
Tommy said:
Yeah definitely. My combined XI would probably leave Sanchez out, but that's not because Mane is a better player, but because I know how well he plays with the other two.

Lovren is responsible for more mistakes than an abortion clinic, but he has tidied up his act. I wouldn't begrudge anyone calling him a tad naff :lol:

FWIW, my combined XI under JK would be...

DDG
TAA/Dalot, Baily, VVD, Robertson
Matic
Pogba Keita
Salah Firmino Mane/Sanchez

I don't know if Sanchez would do better in our system than Mane, but he is an absolutely world class player, no doubt about it. Dalot/Keita are tentative mentions, as we'll have to see how they do in their first season, but from what I've seen of Kieta, he'll have little issues fitting in.
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I'd go along with that apart from maybe Lukaku over Firmino, but they are close so it depends on the sort of striker you prefer. And I haven't really seen enough of Dalot (or any) to rate him higher than TAA,

But yeah, very similar first XI's though I think overall we have a better and bigger squad than you.

That said you have right now a better coach (sorry Jose lovers) so I think you will be on similar points to us and probably get further in cup competitions again.

I think we'll both get top four pretty comfortably but still probably be some way off City at the top anyway so ... meh.
 
These player for player squad comparisons are usually a waste of time. People did them constantly during the Fergie era and we often came out worse, only to go on and dominate. A successful team should always be more than the sum of its parts. Depressingly this was much more true of Liverpool than us, even before this summer’s business.
 
We are definitely still ahead.

DDG
Valencia - Bailly - VVD - Young
Pogba - Matic - unknown
Salah - Lukaku - Sanchez


Based on rank order in each position:

Goalkeeper
De Gea
Allison

Fullbacks
Valencia
Alexander Arnold
Young
Robertson

Centre Backs
VVD
Bailly
Smalling
Lovren

Midfield
Pogba
Matic
Keita / Fred / Fabinho (all yet to play in England so unknown)
Henderson

Wingers/Forwards
Salah
Sanchez
Mane
Lingard

Striker
Lukaku
Firmino
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
A thing to take note of is that whenever Liverpool look primed to build on a good season and challenge for the title they tend to collapse and struggle badly, thinking of 2003,2010,2015. They struggle when the pressure is on, look at their cup final record in the last 10 years or so.

Clutching at straws maybe.
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De difference is that:
2003 we signed Diouf.
2010 we lost Alonso, Arbeloa, Hyypia, was done, Dossena left. We had a good defense in the 08/09 campaign, a great midfield and both were weakened. Incoming transfers didn't make up for that (Johnson was good, Kyrgiakos was a plan C signing and Aquaman has never been remotely close to Alonso quality.
2015 we lost Suarez, enough said.

So yeah. This time things seem a bit better. But closing a 25 point gap is a hell of task.
 
ivaldo said:
Sanchez is better than Mane and I'd prefer Lukaku over Firmino. They function better than we do, that's it.

Our midfield is better than theirs and our keeper is better than theirs, while our overall options at CB are better, with VVD and Bailly being the pick of the punch.

To say their starting XI is better than ours is hypobolic bullshit.

If you said theirs is slightly better than ours then fair enough, but no, it seems you can't make a point here without going stupidly over the top.
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That's sort of the most important aspect of team sports.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
I expect them to be significantly better than us this season, but I believe that will mostly be down to the coaching rather than the quality of the players .
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Agree with this. The way they play football is superior to us.

Their first 11 is better than ours I think. Their squad isn’t though
 
Massive Spanner said:
I'd go along with that apart from maybe Lukaku over Firmino, but they are close so it depends on the sort of striker you prefer. And I haven't really seen enough of Dalot (or any) to rate him higher than TAA,

But yeah, very similar first XI's though I think overall we have a better and bigger squad than you.

That said you have right now a better coach (sorry Jose lovers) so I think you will be on similar points to us and probably get further in cup competitions again.

I think we'll both get top four pretty comfortably but still probably be some way off City at the top anyway so ... meh.
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Yeah I can see Lukaku over Firmino, but for a JK style system, I'd rather keep the latter (although I'm sure Lukaku could pull it off).

I also agree that City will spank us both, but anything below third for Liverpool or United will be a failure.

11101 said:
We are definitely still ahead.

DDG
Valencia - Bailly - VVD - Young
Pogba - Matic - unknown
Salah - Lukaku - Sanchez
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Fair enough on the rest of your choices, but I've no idea how you can have Young over Robertson.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
These player for player squad comparisons are usually a waste of time. People did them constantly during the Fergie era and we often came out worse, only to go on and dominate. A successful team should always be more than the sum of its parts. Depressingly this was much more true of Liverpool than us, even before this summer’s business.
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This is basically all that matters. They were a better unit last season with what was imo a significantly inferior squad. Mourinho would have had a heart attack if he had to manage their midfield. So with significantly more quality, one can safely assume they will outperform us. The only way I can see it not happening is if Mourinho does what he's failed to do in two years. Getting his squad to even play to their ability. We constantly look like a bunch of underperformers while Liverpool look like the opposite.
 
If Liverpool don't finish ahead of us this year then they need to take a hard look at themselves. Though that's less to do with them having a better squad player for player and more to do with them looking like a coherent, well defined team.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
A thing to take note of is that whenever Liverpool look primed to build on a good season and challenge for the title they tend to collapse and struggle badly, thinking of 2003,2010,2015. They struggle when the pressure is on, look at their cup final record in the last 10 years or so.

Clutching at straws maybe.
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Lost key players in Alonso and Suarez in 09 and 14. A big plus we’ve managed to keep hold of Salah and looked even better in the 2nd half of last season after Coutinho left.
 
Liverpool fan here.

De Gea vs Allison - De Gea

Valencia vs TAA - Valencia

Bailly vs Lovren - Tied. Maybe edge to Lovren since he reached WC Final with Croatia and played well.

Jones vs Van Dijk - Van Dijk

Young vs Robertson - Young

Matic vs Fabinho - Matic

Pogba vs Henderson - Pogba

Lingard/Herrera vs Keita - Keita

Mata vs Salah - Salah

Sanchez vs Mane - Mane

Lukuku vs Firmino - Firmino

Maybe it's tied...but honestly, Man Utd's defence and midfield is light years ahead of Liverpool's while Liverpool's attack is much better but not light years.
 
If we finish above Pool again, they might as well give up given the state of our morale.
 
I'd say they're a bit better personally, but there are a lot of variables to consider such as whether Salah continues his ridiculous form. They have a better attack and have added some decent depth to it, we sorely lack a RW but I do think if they're on top form Lukaku and Sanchez are good enough to help us tremendously up top even with our obvious deficiency.

Their midfield looks good but I'd say ours is still stronger on paper. Keita is a good addition and Fabinho might prove to be a solid signing but Pogba, Matic, Fred, Herrera and Pereira are all very strong options with Pogba being the highlight if he can fulfil his potential.

Their defence looks a lot better now, two competent full backs and VVD looks like he's settled very well and even Lovren seems to be somewhat competent now, but we have a lot of things to consider there too: how Bailly/Lindelof get on this season, can Dalot come in and make a big impact?

They addressed their biggest issue in their keeper but DDG is still way ahead in that sense.
 
groovyalbert said:
That's sort of the most important aspect of team sports.
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And has absolutely nothing to do with assessing who has the better starting XI. If we put Joey Essex in charge of City, it doesn't suddenly mean their starting XI is shit.
 
Fortitude said:
With us barely doing anything in the market this summer and Liverpool having their best summer in a while, has the gap in quality of the squads (not just 1st xi's) been closed?

Generally, post-Fergie, I've felt if Liverpool ever finished above us it's because we've underperformed due to us having the stronger squad, but I'm not sure the same can be said now.

Fabinho, Keita and Alisson are actually all touted players and not your usual 'hope they come good' types Liverpool tend to shop for - Shaqiri being the outlier and actually being a good example of the generic Liverpool signing.

I've seen a few posts where people think the title 'race' is between City and Liverpool, is that because of the squad, or is it something else?

If you're able to look at it objectively, how would you rate their (Liverpool's squad) against United's and who do you think will finish higher in the table?

Note: I've not said better squad.
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You never know how this signings turn out and how they connect with the rest of the squad. Allison is probably safe bet that he will be improvement but Fabinho and Keita are not. Look how Depay, Di Maria, Falcao etc. turned out for us.

They improved but we also added Fred to the team which was punching way below what they are capable off. Yeah they have about similar quality at their disposal but in reality they had it last season already. Also their main transfers turned out good for them compared to ours in last seasons. For comparison they signed Firminho when we signed Depay, they signed Mane when we signed Mkhitaryan and Salah last season without much competition from other clubs.
 
ivaldo said:
And has absolutely nothing to do with assessing who has the better starting XI. If we put Joey Essex in charge of City, it doesn't suddenly mean their starting XI is shit.
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:lol:

Very true. But I think their ability to play together better than us may be why I'd put them above us for now.

Of course, this could all change very quickly. But going on the end of last season and preseasons, we don't seem to have anywhere near the same unison.
 
I think their squad has more natural balance. I don't think they have better individual quality. They also play more cohesive attacking football than United, which is something Jose must sort out. If he can get the best out of Pogba, Sanchez and Lukaku I think we will be better than them, though.
 
they are clearly a better team then us
 
groovyalbert said:
:lol:

Very true. But I think their ability to play together better than us may be why I'd put them above us for now.

Of course, this could all change very quickly. But going on the end of last season and preseasons, we don't seem to have anywhere near the same unison.
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I'll agree there. I don't think we are too far away though. Fred should make a big difference.
 
marktan said:
Mane - Firmino - Salah >>>>> Alexis - Lukaku - Lingard - 90 goals to 50 goals last season

Midfield we were better but Matic - Pogba - Fred could now be similar to Keita - Fabinho - Wjnaldum

Full backs - TAA & Robertson >> Young and Valencia

CB - Van Djik & Lovren a similar level to Bailly / Smalling

GK - De Gea > Allison but Allison could be very good.

So they have a far better attack than us, better full backs, similar level on CBs, and their GK and midfield could very well end up being as good as ours with the new signings.

The thing is even without all their signings, that front 3 alone is deadly. We just don't have anything close to that.
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the state of this. None of their midfielders are anywhere near Pogba who is coveted by Barcelona. Liverpool had a free run at Fabinho and Keita so perhaps the other top sides don't rate them so highly. Matic has done more in the EPL ( 2 titles) than all their midfielders so should be higher regarded. Fred is unknown, Wijnaldum as nothing special.

Ashley Young was Engand's starting WB. none of Liverpool FB are better than him.
 
BluesJr said:
Some people :lol:
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What? Do you think some squad members could've helped overturn the gap?

Or were you laughing at the post which I replied. Its hard to tell thing here!
 
I think a lot of Liverpool squad strength depends on how Allison, Keita and Fabinho settles in. There's quite a few examples of midfielders taking a season to settle in.
 
De Gea

Valencia (but it's close)
Bailly
VVD
Robertson

(our bench options being stronger)

Matic
Keita (I haven't seen enough of either so I'll be impartial)
Pogba

(our bench options being deeper)

Sanchez
Salah
Lukaku

(our bench options being deeper)

If I go off a grading system I'd give De Gea 10, Valencia 6.5, Bailly 7, Smalling 7, Young 6.5, Fred 7.5, Pogba 8.5, Matic 8, Sanchez 8.5, Lingard 6.5, Lukaku 8 so 84 and for them I'd go Allison 8, TAA 6.5, VVD 7.5, Lovren 6, Robertson 7, Fabinho 7, Keita 8, Henderson 6.5, Salah 9, Mane 8, Firmino 7.5 so 81

We have a more talented team and squad on paper, but I think they have better balance. Their front three works really well together, midfield I suspect our three will work a lot better due to a) better players and b) there's are new to the league, their full-backs offer more than ours and I think VVD is a little overrated and despite his boasts Lovren is calamitous so we edge them there. Goalie we just have better one simple as but at least they have a good one now.

They have a target on their head now so teams will up their games more against them and they don't handle pressure well nor does their manager so I expect it to be close between us and them not to mention Salah will surely not be as good this season and surely Pogba and Alexis will improve more than any players between the two sides.
 
KM said:
What? Do you think some squad members could've helped overturn the gap?

Or were you laughing at the post which I replied. Its hard to tell thing here!
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I was laughing at the guy you replied to!
 
KM said:
I think a lot of Liverpool squad strength depends on how Allison, Keita and Fabinho settles in. There's quite a few examples of midfielders taking a season to settle in.
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They do often neglect real midfield play though. Main focus is just pressing and wit the ball playing it long for their attackers to run onto. I hope they try and switch to more of a midfield type game because it takes from their strengths IMO.
 
Their squad is possibly better, it's very close now. The main thing for me is the balance they have to their squad now, it's strong all over the pitch. We have some players that are individually better than their counterparts, but too many weaknesses in certain areas of the pitch.

If Martial, Sanchez, Rashford, Pogba, Bailly and Lindelof can play closer to their potential and Dalot and Fred can bring more quality, then I'd say we're better and won't be far off City. That's one huge 'if' though.
 
ivaldo said:
I'll agree there. I don't think we are too far away though. Fred should make a big difference.
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Oh totally - I think we've got more potential in our squad than the caf is acknowledging right now. But it is potential for now, and needs to be realised this season.

Also, it will be oh so sweet if (/when ;)) Liverpool fail to meet the high expectations they now have.
 
They've got a good side, no doubt about that, but I'm not sure there's really much between them, City, us, or Chelsea when it comes to the first 11.

We've been pretty terrible for 2 years, but it's not been anything to do with the personnel.
 
Not much in the squads in my opinion.
Big difference for me though is Klopp will get a lot more out of his players than Mourinho will.

Bookies have Liverpool second favourites as of now, and for me, it's solely down to the managers
 
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