Why the negativity against Ed and the Glazers? Sorry I don't follow

JPRouve said:
Scouts, it's literally scouts. Managers may choose the final targets, but scouts are the ones making list of right players.
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Did you ever hear the great story about when Fergie sent one of his scouts to have a look at Steve Bruce ??

“On the form it said, ‘Bright sunny day... Bruce picked up a facial injury and moved into midfield, where he can’t play... He is weak, no left foot, one-paced... In my opinion, the Third Division is his level... he will make a decent living at this standard...”
 
City has to follow the FFP too so they cannot just throw money around. Now Ed has bought for Jose what he has asked for in the past. Why did we buy Pogba, Lukaku, Bailly, Lindelof, Fred and Sanchez and of course Zlatan if Jose did not think they were good enough? Surely He even got Fellaini to sign a new contract and gave extensions to Young too.
If he thinks the players he bought was not good enough then he should not have bought them. That is 7 players he has bought. OK lets leave out Zlatan but that is 6 and it is more than half the starting 11. And David to is as he is cannot be replaced that is 7 players and still he cannot get them to play decent football let alone win even ugly?
I do not think he has a clue as to what he is doing at United. At Real players like Ronaldo and Modric and Benzema bails him out in the La Liga plus the competition is only Barca and Athletico while in England it is much more even.
I say, The Glazers and Ed has been good and bought whatever is needed if Jose makes the right justification. Why would they buy another central defender when Jose last year said these two are the two central defenders he wanted and now he says he wants more?
 
VanGaalyTime said:
I understand the financial aspect of it somewhat. I think the main issue is that Woodward says one thing and then does another. He says United can do anything they want in the market. He says they can buy Varane and places stupid stories in the papers basically detailing his moronic behaviour throughout the summer. "We tried to get Varane but mean Madrid said no". Another issue that you breezed past is the interest payments and dividends. Why in the living feck are we paying Glazers dividends! They've taken almost a billion pounds out of the club and are preventing us spending according to our wealth. It's disgusting they're even able to show their faces at Old Trafford. Though I don't imagine they will keep doing that if the fans turn on them.
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Wasn´t this like four years ago? One sentence taken from some investors briefing? Get over it I say. Tiresome.
 
Jcrossley94 said:
Did you ever hear the great story about when Fergie sent one of his scouts to have a look at Steve Bruce ??

“On the form it said, ‘Bright sunny day... Bruce picked up a facial injury and moved into midfield, where he can’t play... He is weak, no left foot, one-paced... In my opinion, the Third Division is his level... he will make a decent living at this standard...”
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You will have these type of stories about most players, that's why you scout several times with different people. But outside of it, surely you realize that managers do not have the time nor the opportunity to actually scout players themselves, so if people are wondering where Woodward get his information there is a fair chance that it comes from the department supposed to create these informations. Now, I can't tell you if they are good at it but this story from Andy Mitten could tell us something.
 
JPRouve said:
You will have these type of stories about most players, that's why you scout several times with different people. But outside of it, surely you realize that managers do not have the time nor the opportunity to actually scout players themselves, so if people are wondering where Woodward get his information there is a fair chance that it comes from the department supposed to create these informations. Now, I can't tell you if they are good at it but this story from Andy Mitten could tell us something.
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I think you’ve misunderstood, I wasn’t making a point .... I was just sharing what I thought was an interesting anecdote that I heard the other day! :)
 
Apparently reports say we will buy in January? If so it could be to late I'm going for 40pts by Jan 1st. City and pool and others may well be on 48 to 50. . It a bloody mess and the board knows it is as well as we do. Ok we have same squad relatively as last season and got a distance 2nd.
Other clubs have strengthened better than us. The only thing I'm hoping for is they surprise us?
 
vidic blood & sand said:
The club has generously backed two managers, and allowed them complete freedom to govern football related matters.

I think the problem we have here is that there are too many United fans who jumped on the fairytale bandwagon in the 90s and 2000s, and now simply cannot handle what is happening at the club at the moment, while at the same time having to endure watching two of our biggest historic rivals flourishing. These spoiled united fans are desperate to stick a knife into an object of their dissatisfaction.

We're in a valley of shite right now, but it'll make it all the more satisfying when we return to the top, which will happen. Personally I think Mourinho is the problem with us right now. I think he's all wrong for us, but it's understandable to give him another season to try and either adapt to the traditions of the club, or go somewhere else.
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Why the negativity against Ed?
He is a business man telling our football manager who he should or shouldn't be signing. He is fantastic at his own job and should stick to it, and bring in a proper football man to oversee the DoF type role.

Why the negativity against the Glazers?
They are absolute parasites who have never spent a penny of their own money yet own the club and take millions of pounds out of it every year. They don't give a toss about the club as long as it is lining their pockets, the way they took over the club and placed their debt onto the club itself should be against the law. There is literally nothing positive to say about them.

These are really not difficult questions.
 
Every aspect of the club has stagnated under the Glazers watch. The stadium hasn't been developed any further at all. The youth set-up has fallen behind. And most damningly of all they have singularly failed to manage the transition to the post-Ferguson era. Their failure in transition management is the killer for me, they knew they had to plan for a future after SAF, there simply was no plan that much is obvious now. Thats what I'm most angry about.

They've managed cashflow very well. They've managed liquidation of their own assests extremely well. Yes they've spent on transfers but ineffectively and without any sense of a real plan, purpose or vision for the club. This is Manchester United, the biggest club in England, and its being run with no real sense of direction, its crazy stuff. Its about time the fans started to turn on these leeches.
 
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No problem until now. Back the manager or sack him. Now we're in the middle of the road bollocks. Wtf is going on? Because I've no idea.
 
Josep Dowling said:
100% this.

Add to that allowing the two football men in Sir Alex Ferguson and David Gill to leave at the same time with about 3 months notice.

No other major business would allow two senior figures to leave, at the same time, without at least 12 months notice. Regardless of their personal circumstances.
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So we were going to force both of them to stay on? Good luck with that.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
I think what’s more soul crushing is United fans that don’t understand what that comment was about. He’s not saying we were trying to sign Varane or that we were going to but if Varane became available and the cost was a 100 mil then that is a deal they could easily finance. He is making the point that if the right player becomes available then there is the money to do it. It vexes me that United fans can’t understand something so simple.
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Reports came out that he actually did try to buy Varane for 100m.
 
People can debate forever about whether the leveraged buyout, debt management and stock grants constitutes “bleeding the club dry.” However, cooler financial minds can, and have, pointed to the fact the club still remains a financial powerhouse and certainly capable of competing.

Beyond “bleeding the club dry”, there’s the pipe dream that United should be owned and run by fans, or fantasizing about a Mideast royal family or oligarch will buy us. Just like folks who haven’t watched the latest episodes of “when directors of football go bad” or “what happens when a rich dude badly mismanages your club and it all goes tits up and your beloved club is in liquidation” they ignore all the risks and point to whatever the flavor of the month is: City, Barca, Pool, Chelsea, Leicester, Monaco, Bayern, Dortmund, etc and wag their fingers ... “that’s how we should be run!!!”

Some right shite gets spouted on here like gospel.

“Glazers & Woody only care about top 4.” This is considered fact because Moyes and Van Gaal were sacked after falling out of the CL spots. To me, that implies top 4 is a minimum, not a maximum goal. However, this bleeds into the next narrative...

“Glazers and Woody don’t care about our football, traditions, etc. Just top 4 & money”. First off, this would be an incredibly daft assumption to make, that owners would intentionally and stupidly and actively seek to dilute the brand of Manchester United. Whether Moyes, Van Gaal, or Mourinho were the right choices is certainly valid. We’ve made some poor choices. But I hardly think anyone with half their wits about them thinks Woody said to the Glazers, “Let’s get someone who plays shite football in, ruin our brand and investment and alienate our fans in the process, and maybe scrape 4th. Sound like a plan lads?”

Fecking nonsense, that. Nobody ever considers that maybe, just maybe, we sacked Moyes and LvG because the football was shite and they heard the voice of the fans. Nope, we all know it’s because we didn’t make Top 4 and that’s all they care about. Simples.

“Nobody at the club has any knowledge of football, we’re run by bankers”. Football’s a business, and surprise! Madrid, Bayern, City, Pool, Monaco, Barca and every other football club are businesses too. You know what happens when you overspend and run a club solely based on football hopes instead of a sound business model? Rangers. Villa. Wimbledon.

From everything I see, we weren’t prepared to piss money up a wall for no reason.

Maguire we probably identified after the World Cup and it would’ve cost a bomb. In fact, I’d go so far to say Leicester wouldn’t have sold to us so late anyway. I like Maguire, but that late it would have been a world record fee.

Alderweireld, from the brief it sounds like we were half-hearted. Tottenham approached us for Mata and Martial. People forget we tried to pry Dier lose last season, and he was apparently first choice over Matic. It’s certainly conceivable we had no stomach for paying a premium on a player coming off a major injury, intentionally running down his contract, and out of favour at his club the end of last season, who we can pick up for £25 mill release clause next year, especially to Dániel Levy.

Boateng on a premium fee with high wages would have been one of the shittiest pieces of business in world football.

So we steered clear. Didn’t back the manager? Don’t buy it. More like, couldn’t back the manager without looking like right mugs and setting a future precedent for getting mugged.

I don’t blame Woody & the Glazers. Why are Shaw, Darmian and Rojo still here? Because it’s the Premier League and we’re paying at the very top end of the league in wages. We really should invest when it makes sense and there really is value and safety in the investment, and not piss away money to “back the manager”, especially after the questionable football, poor man management, and public shitshow said manager displayed in pre-season.
 
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This talk of value in the market. As soon as you go that route you are telling people you can't compete or worse yet unwilling. Cause then your purely in it for the prestige and to make some money. ED represents that aspect. I'm sure he would have liked to have brought someone in but I don't think he realizes how many players we need. So let us put things into perspective. We cannot compete with a plastic club funded by plastic money. That's the reality. The wages are down to the club and how astute they are. The market is gone for a long time and even if they put a block on what you can pay, we would get beat by the wages offered. Value in the market? It's going to be a long time before we actually have a summer where we look to do proper business then.
 
0161_UNITED said:
People can debate forever about whether the leveraged buyout, debt management and stock grants constitutes “bleeding the club dry.” However, cooler financial minds can, and have, pointed to the fact the club still remains a financial powerhouse and certainly capable of competing.

Beyond “bleeding the club dry”, there’s the pipe dream that United should be owned and run by fans, or fantasizing about a Mideast royal family or oligarch will buy us. Just like folks who haven’t watched the latest episodes of “when directors of football go bad” or “what happens when a rich dude badly mismanages your club and it all goes tits up and your beloved club is in liquidation” they ignore all the risks and point to whatever the flavor of the month is: City, Barca, Pool, Chelsea, Leicester, Monaco, Bayern, Dortmund, etc and wag their fingers ... “that’s how we should be run!!!”

Some right shite gets spouted on here like gospel.

“Glazers & Woody only care about top 4.” This is considered fact because Moyes and Van Gaal were sacked after falling out of the CL spots. To me, that implies top 4 is a minimum, not a maximum goal. However, this bleeds into the next narrative...

“Glazers and Woody don’t care about our football, traditions, etc. Just top 4 & money”. First off, this would be an incredibly daft assumption to make, that owners would intentionally and stupidly and actively seek to dilute the brand of Manchester United. Whether Moyes, Van Gaal, or Mourinho were the right choices is certainly valid. We’ve made some poor choices. But I hardly think anyone with half their wits about them thinks Woody said to the Glazers, “Let’s get someone who plays shite football in, ruin our brand and investment and alienate our fans in the process, and maybe scrape 4th. Sound like a plan lads?”

Fecking nonsense, that. Nobody ever considers that maybe, just maybe, we sacked Moyes and LvG because the football was shite and they heard the voice of the fans. Nope, we all know it’s because we didn’t make Top 4 and that’s all they care about. Simples.

“Nobody at the club has any knowledge of football, we’re run by bankers”. Football’s a business, and surprise! Madrid, Bayern, City, Pool, Monaco, Barca and every other football club are businesses too. You know what happens when you overspend and run a club solely based on football hopes instead of a sound business model? Rangers. Villa. Wimbledon.

From everything I see, we weren’t prepared to piss money up a wall for no reason.

Maguire we probably identified after the World Cup and it would’ve cost a bomb. In fact, I’d go so far to say Leicester wouldn’t have sold to us so late anyway. I like Maguire, but that late it would have been a world record fee.

Alderweireld, from the brief it sounds like we were half-hearted. Tottenham approached us for Mata and Martial. People forget we tried to pry Dier lose last season, and he was apparently first choice over Matic. It’s certainly conceivable we had no stomach for paying a premium on a player coming off a major injury, intentionally running down his contract, and out of favour at his club the end of last season, who we can pick up for £25 mill release clause next year, especially to Dániel Levy.

Boateng on a premium fee with high wages would have been one of the shittiest pieces of business in world football.

So we steered clear. Didn’t back the manager? Don’t buy it. More like, couldn’t back the manager without looking like right mugs and setting a future precedent for getting mugged.

I don’t blame Woody & the Glazers. Why are Shaw, Darmian and Rojo still here? Because it’s the Premier League and we’re paying at the very top end of the league in wages. We really should invest when it makes sense and there really is value and safety in the investment, and not piss away money to “back the manager”, especially after the questionable football, poor man management, and public shitshow said manager displayed in pre-season.
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Well said. Some people think the Glazers or whoever owns a profitable club, will run it for the sake of running it without getting something out of it. Its a business as well as a football club and obviously as long as its turnng a profit, they are going to get a dividend. They have created the wealth by clever business acumen, and this has allowed the spending on players to be between City and Chelsea. If martin Edwards had have been the director nowadays, I would bet we would be having 30-50 maximum spend. Edwards wasnt a billionaire, nor was he maximising the Utd 'brand' to anywhere where it is now.
 
noodlehair said:
Woodward:

- spending the summer pretending to sign fabregas, waiting all summer to sign fellaini so he could pay OVER Fellainis buyout clause to sign him, then making a fumbling attempt to get at left back in at 11.30pm on deadline day. Waiting so long to move for Herrera that we had to wait a whole extra year to get him.
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I remember we pissed off both Barcelona and Everton by lowballing them hard for Fabregas and Fellaini/Baines, then we just ended up overpaying for Fellaini last minute. Then next summer, Woodward's famous "watch this space" comment, shortly followed by us turning into that club whose name got thrown around by everyone and their grandma to bump up their salaries.
 
Ed specifically, I'm surprised more people can't make the rather obvious link between banging as many overpaid superstars into a team and the team just downing tools and pointing to the manager as the problem and leaving in their luxury vehicles for him to cop all the shit. We need an experienced core and some serious graft, or at least some players with something to play for other than an endorsement deal or some choice skill-clips on snapchat. Signing players based on the "something to play for" and "grafter" parameters doesn't seem to be Ed's motivation at the moment, especially with our moves over the last few years. Ed specifically should be crucified for allowing LVG to gut the squad without bringing in any replacements, allowing 5 first team players to leave and leaving 6 overage spots in the squad when the window closed was an unforgivable act that will haunt LVG's deplorable tenure.

Not sure how Ed and Mourinho go about building an experienced core though, especially without bumming out 4 or 5 overpaid and under performing on the pitch "stars". You would not see me be surprised if Ed values the marketing aspect of most of his buys and then asking Mourinho to shoehorn all of this into an acceptable football team is an afterthought. Hence the dirge that is pouring out in the myopic view of the fans at the moment.
 
wolvored said:
If martin Edwards had have been the director nowadays, I would bet we would be having 30-50 maximum spend. Edwards wasnt a billionaire, nor was he maximising the Utd 'brand' to anywhere where it is now.
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What? Bullshit. We regularly broke the transfer records and Fergie spent like crazy during those years. We spent like 30 million just on Veron in 2001 and another 30 on Ferdinand in 2002. Insane money back then. Edwards wasn't also really the owner, he just held part of the shares and was the chairman.

Also, I'm sick of people saying "but the Glazers enhanced the brand, blah blah". That's fecking bullshit. We were already the richest club in the world with absolutely no debt whatsoever before their takeover. We were already the most widely known club in the world. The Glazers did nothing on that front, really, they just continued what was already happening, with a lot more debt than necessary.
 
Why the negativity towards ed and the glazers? For me its pretty obvious. Because we are 5 years on from Saf's retirement and we look further away from winning the league than any point since. Because we have hired 3 managers and each of them has served up their own versions of dire football. We can blame the manager, i have done that plenty, you can blame the players but ultimately they have made the decisions that have led us to the point and we as fans have every right to question them. All this talk of money seems irrelevant to me. We spend lots of money but we dont spend it wisely at all. They hire managers that play dull football and sign players for big money and then wonder why they fail to perform. They offer our manager a new contract and then fail to back him in the transfer market. It makes no sense whatsoever. And whilst all this is going on our two biggest rivals down the road have hired young progressive managers that play exciting football and have their respective teams heading towards domestic and European success. We are quickly becoming a laughing stock and the club needs to wake up. We have the best away fans in the country bar none and they deserve better than that disgrace they were served up on sunday.
 
0161_UNITED said:
People can debate forever about whether the leveraged buyout, debt management and stock grants constitutes “bleeding the club dry.” However, cooler financial minds can, and have, pointed to the fact the club still remains a financial powerhouse and certainly capable of competing.

Beyond “bleeding the club dry”, there’s the pipe dream that United should be owned and run by fans, or fantasizing about a Mideast royal family or oligarch will buy us. Just like folks who haven’t watched the latest episodes of “when directors of football go bad” or “what happens when a rich dude badly mismanages your club and it all goes tits up and your beloved club is in liquidation” they ignore all the risks and point to whatever the flavor of the month is: City, Barca, Pool, Chelsea, Leicester, Monaco, Bayern, Dortmund, etc and wag their fingers ... “that’s how we should be run!!!”

Some right shite gets spouted on here like gospel.

“Glazers & Woody only care about top 4.” This is considered fact because Moyes and Van Gaal were sacked after falling out of the CL spots. To me, that implies top 4 is a minimum, not a maximum goal. However, this bleeds into the next narrative...

“Glazers and Woody don’t care about our football, traditions, etc. Just top 4 & money”. First off, this would be an incredibly daft assumption to make, that owners would intentionally and stupidly and actively seek to dilute the brand of Manchester United. Whether Moyes, Van Gaal, or Mourinho were the right choices is certainly valid. We’ve made some poor choices. But I hardly think anyone with half their wits about them thinks Woody said to the Glazers, “Let’s get someone who plays shite football in, ruin our brand and investment and alienate our fans in the process, and maybe scrape 4th. Sound like a plan lads?”

Fecking nonsense, that. Nobody ever considers that maybe, just maybe, we sacked Moyes and LvG because the football was shite and they heard the voice of the fans. Nope, we all know it’s because we didn’t make Top 4 and that’s all they care about. Simples.

“Nobody at the club has any knowledge of football, we’re run by bankers”. Football’s a business, and surprise! Madrid, Bayern, City, Pool, Monaco, Barca and every other football club are businesses too. You know what happens when you overspend and run a club solely based on football hopes instead of a sound business model? Rangers. Villa. Wimbledon.

From everything I see, we weren’t prepared to piss money up a wall for no reason.

Maguire we probably identified after the World Cup and it would’ve cost a bomb. In fact, I’d go so far to say Leicester wouldn’t have sold to us so late anyway. I like Maguire, but that late it would have been a world record fee.

Alderweireld, from the brief it sounds like we were half-hearted. Tottenham approached us for Mata and Martial. People forget we tried to pry Dier lose last season, and he was apparently first choice over Matic. It’s certainly conceivable we had no stomach for paying a premium on a player coming off a major injury, intentionally running down his contract, and out of favour at his club the end of last season, who we can pick up for £25 mill release clause next year, especially to Dániel Levy.

Boateng on a premium fee with high wages would have been one of the shittiest pieces of business in world football.

So we steered clear. Didn’t back the manager? Don’t buy it. More like, couldn’t back the manager without looking like right mugs and setting a future precedent for getting mugged.

I don’t blame Woody & the Glazers. Why are Shaw, Darmian and Rojo still here? Because it’s the Premier League and we’re paying at the very top end of the league in wages. We really should invest when it makes sense and there really is value and safety in the investment, and not piss away money to “back the manager”, especially after the questionable football, poor man management, and public shitshow said manager displayed in pre-season.
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Hear hear
 
0161_UNITED said:
People can debate forever about whether the leveraged buyout, debt management and stock grants constitutes “bleeding the club dry.” However, cooler financial minds can, and have, pointed to the fact the club still remains a financial powerhouse and certainly capable of competing.

Beyond “bleeding the club dry”, there’s the pipe dream that United should be owned and run by fans, or fantasizing about a Mideast royal family or oligarch will buy us. Just like folks who haven’t watched the latest episodes of “when directors of football go bad” or “what happens when a rich dude badly mismanages your club and it all goes tits up and your beloved club is in liquidation” they ignore all the risks and point to whatever the flavor of the month is: City, Barca, Pool, Chelsea, Leicester, Monaco, Bayern, Dortmund, etc and wag their fingers ... “that’s how we should be run!!!”

Some right shite gets spouted on here like gospel.

“Glazers & Woody only care about top 4.” This is considered fact because Moyes and Van Gaal were sacked after falling out of the CL spots. To me, that implies top 4 is a minimum, not a maximum goal. However, this bleeds into the next narrative...

“Glazers and Woody don’t care about our football, traditions, etc. Just top 4 & money”. First off, this would be an incredibly daft assumption to make, that owners would intentionally and stupidly and actively seek to dilute the brand of Manchester United. Whether Moyes, Van Gaal, or Mourinho were the right choices is certainly valid. We’ve made some poor choices. But I hardly think anyone with half their wits about them thinks Woody said to the Glazers, “Let’s get someone who plays shite football in, ruin our brand and investment and alienate our fans in the process, and maybe scrape 4th. Sound like a plan lads?”

Fecking nonsense, that. Nobody ever considers that maybe, just maybe, we sacked Moyes and LvG because the football was shite and they heard the voice of the fans. Nope, we all know it’s because we didn’t make Top 4 and that’s all they care about. Simples.

“Nobody at the club has any knowledge of football, we’re run by bankers”. Football’s a business, and surprise! Madrid, Bayern, City, Pool, Monaco, Barca and every other football club are businesses too. You know what happens when you overspend and run a club solely based on football hopes instead of a sound business model? Rangers. Villa. Wimbledon.

From everything I see, we weren’t prepared to piss money up a wall for no reason.

Maguire we probably identified after the World Cup and it would’ve cost a bomb. In fact, I’d go so far to say Leicester wouldn’t have sold to us so late anyway. I like Maguire, but that late it would have been a world record fee.

Alderweireld, from the brief it sounds like we were half-hearted. Tottenham approached us for Mata and Martial. People forget we tried to pry Dier lose last season, and he was apparently first choice over Matic. It’s certainly conceivable we had no stomach for paying a premium on a player coming off a major injury, intentionally running down his contract, and out of favour at his club the end of last season, who we can pick up for £25 mill release clause next year, especially to Dániel Levy.

Boateng on a premium fee with high wages would have been one of the shittiest pieces of business in world football.

So we steered clear. Didn’t back the manager? Don’t buy it. More like, couldn’t back the manager without looking like right mugs and setting a future precedent for getting mugged.

I don’t blame Woody & the Glazers. Why are Shaw, Darmian and Rojo still here? Because it’s the Premier League and we’re paying at the very top end of the league in wages. We really should invest when it makes sense and there really is value and safety in the investment, and not piss away money to “back the manager”, especially after the questionable football, poor man management, and public shitshow said manager displayed in pre-season.
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Fantastic post. Unfortunately it goes against the narrative and the average consumer doesn’t want to expel the brain power to process all that. It’s the reason why shite, agenda-based media sells to the masses
 
0161_UNITED said:
People can debate forever about whether the leveraged buyout, debt management and stock grants constitutes “bleeding the club dry.” However, cooler financial minds can, and have, pointed to the fact the club still remains a financial powerhouse and certainly capable of competing.

Beyond “bleeding the club dry”, there’s the pipe dream that United should be owned and run by fans, or fantasizing about a Mideast royal family or oligarch will buy us. Just like folks who haven’t watched the latest episodes of “when directors of football go bad” or “what happens when a rich dude badly mismanages your club and it all goes tits up and your beloved club is in liquidation” they ignore all the risks and point to whatever the flavor of the month is: City, Barca, Pool, Chelsea, Leicester, Monaco, Bayern, Dortmund, etc and wag their fingers ... “that’s how we should be run!!!”

Some right shite gets spouted on here like gospel.

“Glazers & Woody only care about top 4.” This is considered fact because Moyes and Van Gaal were sacked after falling out of the CL spots. To me, that implies top 4 is a minimum, not a maximum goal. However, this bleeds into the next narrative...

“Glazers and Woody don’t care about our football, traditions, etc. Just top 4 & money”. First off, this would be an incredibly daft assumption to make, that owners would intentionally and stupidly and actively seek to dilute the brand of Manchester United. Whether Moyes, Van Gaal, or Mourinho were the right choices is certainly valid. We’ve made some poor choices. But I hardly think anyone with half their wits about them thinks Woody said to the Glazers, “Let’s get someone who plays shite football in, ruin our brand and investment and alienate our fans in the process, and maybe scrape 4th. Sound like a plan lads?”

Fecking nonsense, that. Nobody ever considers that maybe, just maybe, we sacked Moyes and LvG because the football was shite and they heard the voice of the fans. Nope, we all know it’s because we didn’t make Top 4 and that’s all they care about. Simples.

“Nobody at the club has any knowledge of football, we’re run by bankers”. Football’s a business, and surprise! Madrid, Bayern, City, Pool, Monaco, Barca and every other football club are businesses too. You know what happens when you overspend and run a club solely based on football hopes instead of a sound business model? Rangers. Villa. Wimbledon.

From everything I see, we weren’t prepared to piss money up a wall for no reason.

Maguire we probably identified after the World Cup and it would’ve cost a bomb. In fact, I’d go so far to say Leicester wouldn’t have sold to us so late anyway. I like Maguire, but that late it would have been a world record fee.

Alderweireld, from the brief it sounds like we were half-hearted. Tottenham approached us for Mata and Martial. People forget we tried to pry Dier lose last season, and he was apparently first choice over Matic. It’s certainly conceivable we had no stomach for paying a premium on a player coming off a major injury, intentionally running down his contract, and out of favour at his club the end of last season, who we can pick up for £25 mill release clause next year, especially to Dániel Levy.

Boateng on a premium fee with high wages would have been one of the shittiest pieces of business in world football.

So we steered clear. Didn’t back the manager? Don’t buy it. More like, couldn’t back the manager without looking like right mugs and setting a future precedent for getting mugged.

I don’t blame Woody & the Glazers. Why are Shaw, Darmian and Rojo still here? Because it’s the Premier League and we’re paying at the very top end of the league in wages. We really should invest when it makes sense and there really is value and safety in the investment, and not piss away money to “back the manager”, especially after the questionable football, poor man management, and public shitshow said manager displayed in pre-season.
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You're talking too much sense here.
 
JB7 said:
Why the negativity against Ed?
He is a business man telling our football manager who he should or shouldn't be signing. He is fantastic at his own job and should stick to it, and bring in a proper football man to oversee the DoF type role.

Why the negativity against the Glazers?
They are absolute parasites who have never spent a penny of their own money yet own the club and take millions of pounds out of it every year. They don't give a toss about the club as long as it is lining their pockets, the way they took over the club and placed their debt onto the club itself should be against the law. There is literally nothing positive to say about them.

These are really not difficult questions.
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100%

The Glazer are penny pinching parasitic cnuts, any success at this club will be despite of them not because of them.
 
goin4glory said:
The reason our squad needed an overhaul is because the failed to do any investment for almost a decade beforehand. Our net spend from when they arrived until SAF left was lower than Stoke, that's a fact. While Madrid were out buying Ronaldo/Bale/Benzema and every other world class player available we replaced Rio/Ronaldo/Scholes with Smalling/Young/Cleverly.

As long as United are in the top 4 and have the european money rolling in the Glazer's don't give a feck about trophies and this summer window proves it. As long as we're top 4 they have zero intention to compete with the likes of City even though we have the resources to do so.

I never undnerstand why fans like you feel the need to bend over and grab your ankles for the Glazers. They're a cancer on the club.
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Any business owner would try to maximise their investment return with as little leverage as possible. Glazers pulled off a beautiful deal when they bought the club whilst putting the debt on the very business they were buying. In that sense you can’t fault them, that’s just smart business. That said, I agree with you and your very eloquent bolded statement above that people should not be deluded to think they are investing (or backed LVG and Mou during the past transfer windows) to chase trophies. The shift in the transfer policy (no value for money for CBs etc.) this summer and the clumsy briefings Ed/the board give the press are clear evidence of the Glazer’s position. Point is, have to realise the Glazers for what they are.
 
JB7 said:
Why the negativity against Ed?
He is a business man telling our football manager who he should or shouldn't be signing. He is fantastic at his own job and should stick to it, and bring in a proper football man to oversee the DoF type role.

Why the negativity against the Glazers?
They are absolute parasites who have never spent a penny of their own money yet own the club and take millions of pounds out of it every year. They don't give a toss about the club as long as it is lining their pockets, the way they took over the club and placed their debt onto the club itself should be against the law. There is literally nothing positive to say about them.

These are really not difficult questions.
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Woodward's job is to back or sack the coach. At the moment he is feeding stories to the press which make Mourinho look bad. There was derision in football when Man Utd wanted to buy a 3rd centre-back in successive years, and the transfer strategy is a shambles so I can understand the CEO's unhappiness although perhaps he is also culpable for this. However how does public criticism albeit through media briefings help the team? If you don't rate him, sack him but why make his job more difficult by triggering this crisis in the process?

In my opinion the Woodward and Mourinho should both go.
 
Not being intentionally rude But if you dont follow why theres negativity towards woodward and glazers by now, is there even any point explaining?
 
United is the perfect place for any manager. You come in, all you have to do is get the players you have, write lists of players you want every summer and they try to get them for you. That is all. We let LVG bring in a shitload of dross, let Moyes bumble around all summer and sack all our backroom staff, allowed Jose to convince us to giving Fellaini and Rojo new contracts, given him most of the players he's wanted, let him stay on for a 3rd season despite the football being rubbish. I'd say they're doing their best. The day we hire a manager who knows what the feck he's doing in terms of transfers and football we'll improve, that is all. We talk about how much we want a DOF like Barca, Madrid and Bayern but do you see Jose lasting up to his 3rd season in any of those clubs? You think Jose or any of of our previous managers would have preferred working for other clubs where you have the directors and club owners constantly meddling, threatening them or looking over their shoulders all the time?

The Glazers and Woody are not perfect and have made a lot of mistakes, but where we are right now is mostly down to the managers we've hired. We'll get it right eventually. Talking about how they should have hired Klopp or Pep and using that as a stick to beat them is just nonsense and hindsight.
 
flappyjay said:
That's because Bailey, Matic, Fred, Lindelof made a lot of commercial sense right?
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Fred is Brazilian mate. Makes a lot of commercial sense. As the rest, well none of them were particularly expensive for today's standards, and even so, Bailly and Lindelof are both young so they make sense. The only one who doesn't make too much sense is Matic potentially, but he is a premier league proven multiple title winning CDM, 40M to snatch a key player in a rival's team makes sense.
 
Un4givableB said:
100%

The Glazer are penny pinching parasitic cnuts, any success at this club will be despite of them not because of them.
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:lol::lol:

They're spent a fortune in recent years - out of interest, how much is enough for you to be happy with the Glazers? I suspect it would never be enough...
 
0161_UNITED said:
People can debate forever about whether the leveraged buyout, debt management and stock grants constitutes “bleeding the club dry.” However, cooler financial minds can, and have, pointed to the fact the club still remains a financial powerhouse and certainly capable of competing.

Beyond “bleeding the club dry”, there’s the pipe dream that United should be owned and run by fans, or fantasizing about a Mideast royal family or oligarch will buy us. Just like folks who haven’t watched the latest episodes of “when directors of football go bad” or “what happens when a rich dude badly mismanages your club and it all goes tits up and your beloved club is in liquidation” they ignore all the risks and point to whatever the flavor of the month is: City, Barca, Pool, Chelsea, Leicester, Monaco, Bayern, Dortmund, etc and wag their fingers ... “that’s how we should be run!!!”

Some right shite gets spouted on here like gospel.

“Glazers & Woody only care about top 4.” This is considered fact because Moyes and Van Gaal were sacked after falling out of the CL spots. To me, that implies top 4 is a minimum, not a maximum goal. However, this bleeds into the next narrative...

“Glazers and Woody don’t care about our football, traditions, etc. Just top 4 & money”. First off, this would be an incredibly daft assumption to make, that owners would intentionally and stupidly and actively seek to dilute the brand of Manchester United. Whether Moyes, Van Gaal, or Mourinho were the right choices is certainly valid. We’ve made some poor choices. But I hardly think anyone with half their wits about them thinks Woody said to the Glazers, “Let’s get someone who plays shite football in, ruin our brand and investment and alienate our fans in the process, and maybe scrape 4th. Sound like a plan lads?”

Fecking nonsense, that. Nobody ever considers that maybe, just maybe, we sacked Moyes and LvG because the football was shite and they heard the voice of the fans. Nope, we all know it’s because we didn’t make Top 4 and that’s all they care about. Simples.

“Nobody at the club has any knowledge of football, we’re run by bankers”. Football’s a business, and surprise! Madrid, Bayern, City, Pool, Monaco, Barca and every other football club are businesses too. You know what happens when you overspend and run a club solely based on football hopes instead of a sound business model? Rangers. Villa. Wimbledon.

From everything I see, we weren’t prepared to piss money up a wall for no reason.

Maguire we probably identified after the World Cup and it would’ve cost a bomb. In fact, I’d go so far to say Leicester wouldn’t have sold to us so late anyway. I like Maguire, but that late it would have been a world record fee.

Alderweireld, from the brief it sounds like we were half-hearted. Tottenham approached us for Mata and Martial. People forget we tried to pry Dier lose last season, and he was apparently first choice over Matic. It’s certainly conceivable we had no stomach for paying a premium on a player coming off a major injury, intentionally running down his contract, and out of favour at his club the end of last season, who we can pick up for £25 mill release clause next year, especially to Dániel Levy.

Boateng on a premium fee with high wages would have been one of the shittiest pieces of business in world football.

So we steered clear. Didn’t back the manager? Don’t buy it. More like, couldn’t back the manager without looking like right mugs and setting a future precedent for getting mugged.

I don’t blame Woody & the Glazers. Why are Shaw, Darmian and Rojo still here? Because it’s the Premier League and we’re paying at the very top end of the league in wages. We really should invest when it makes sense and there really is value and safety in the investment, and not piss away money to “back the manager”, especially after the questionable football, poor man management, and public shitshow said manager displayed in pre-season.
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Good post but I do want come back with a few arguments.

It’s not a case of the Glazers ‘bleeding the club dry’. They have caused the club to be in huge debt with considerable interest rates charged each year. And now they are taking 20m of dividends each year as well. That is at a bare minimum £40m going out of the club each year that shouldn’t be. And they have got very lucky that interest rates have been so low for so long.

I don’t buy the fact they have created this commercial monster. It already was and that’s why they bought the club. Maybe they have gone to the extreme with the amount of sponsorship but it’s no different to any other club these days, it’s just the United brand has more value. And no matter what Woodward spouts in his AGMs the brand was built only by success on the pitch. Fan bases are built by football success.

The Glazers are only interested in top 4. They want the Champions League money and that’s all they care about. The Adidas deals get affected by lack of qualification. Moyes got sacked the same weekend we mathematically couldn’t qualify for the Champions League. It’s a minimum requirement by the club, yes. But the investment in the squad to go from top 4 to league winners doesn’t make business sense to them. We have seen a pattern of huge investment when we have missed top 4 only for that to reduce once we have got it.

As for Maguire. We don’t know for certain who decided on out targets but my issue would be why has it taken a World Cup for him to be noticed by our manager or scouts? Surely they should have already known if they wanted him before. It’s not like he plays in the Latvian league.
 
Dumat12 said:
What? Bullshit. We regularly broke the transfer records and Fergie spent like crazy during those years. We spent like 30 million just on Veron in 2001 and another 30 on Ferdinand in 2002. Insane money back then. Edwards wasn't also really the owner, he just held part of the shares and was the chairman.

Also, I'm sick of people saying "but the Glazers enhanced the brand, blah blah". That's fecking bullshit. We were already the richest club in the world with absolutely no debt whatsoever before their takeover. We were already the most widely known club in the world. The Glazers did nothing on that front, really, they just continued what was already happening, with a lot more debt than necessary.
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I dont like the glazers either and you are right they put the club in debt, but what I am saying is if Edwards, who always wanted to sell the club anyway, was in charge now we wouldnt be able to compete with billionaires. We were the richest club back then because we had the richest owner, but talked of profits in the 20 million bracket. Abromovich came in and changed the landscape then the sheik. Without the glazers and their cut throat competitiveness and the money made through it we wouldnt have been able to compete. In fact if you look at it another way and sold to someone else we might have been an oliagarchs plaything like City or Chelsea and maybe be a lot better off.
 
Rory 7 said:
Every aspect of the club has stagnated under the Glazers watch. The stadium hasn't been develop any further at all. The youth set-up has fallen behind. And most damningly of all they have singularly failed to manage the transition to the post-Ferguson era. Their failure in transition management is the killer for me, they knew they had to plan for a future after SAF, there simply was no plan that obvious now. Thats what I'm most angry about.

They've managed cashflow very well. They've managed liquidation of their own assests extremely well. Yes they've spent on transfers but ineffectively and without any sense of a real plan, purpose or vision for the club. This is Manchester United, the biggest club in England, and its being run with no real sense of direction, its crazy stuff. Its about time the fans started to turn on these leeches.
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Sounds a bit like the UK Govt and Brexit too tbh!
 
I love the argument that Ed doesn’t know anything about football - argued by keyboard warriors on a forum who, who mostly don’t know anything about football.
 
M Bison said:
Surely you get my point though? In case you dont, they have of course sanctioned the spend when they didnt have to. As i say, how much is enough for you?
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They only spent when we finished outside top 4 - even that was after years of under investment. Back in top 4 this season and all of a sudden the club didn’t agree with the targets the manager had - Ed even chucked in a line to his briefing about the poor exchange rate. They also continue to take millions out of the club every year just for the pleasure of having them own us, never mind the interest payments on loans they took out to buy our club.

Make no mistake, the Glazers are only interested in the financial fruits obtained from CL and associated TV revenue. They will “sanction” spending to stay in that top 4 but they are not interested in chasing the title simply because the net gain isn’t worth the expenditure it would take to win.

The amount of fans who have forgotten who the real problem is here is astounding.
 
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