Weve just seen the boss doesnt have the final say, jose has had his wings clipped. Thats given the players more power and no fear of him
Mou can’t hand out old-school tongue-lashings as modern stars are too mentally frail says Lou Macari
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Agree with every point you have made mate.
I didn’t really post this to side myself as either for or against José, I just think how glowingly Ibra talks about him really highlights the style of manager he is. Ibra is one of the most bombastic personalities in the game and the Ideal player for José a la John Terry ect. It’s not surprising Playeds like Martial et all May react badly to his style.
Fergie was unique in that all the reports I have read mention his flexibility in man management style. He would nearly get into fights after shouting matches with Rooney as he felt that is what would motivate him the most - Anger. With Nani he would take him aside for a quiet , private conversation as he was motivated in a different way. I do think José could potentially learn from fergie in this varied style, but I very much doubt he will change at this point, after it has provided him with such success in the past. I feel José should maybe take on a smaller team after us.
It's not anything new and not rocket science. Player and agent power has increased to the detriment of football in my opinion. There is loads more money in the game which means players don't have that same sense of loyalty to any particular club. You can make your millions under the age of 25 and never really have to work again. It wasn't like that before. One thing I reckon is that if Alex Ferguson was starting now, there is no way he could build the Empire of success and longevity of it he did during his era of football.
Yep, fergie knew the moment and time to be angry or go for a softer approach. He also knew different characters needed a different approach.
Was it scholes or giggs who said that they never saw Fergie go off on Cantona?
I don't think there's any difference between the generations, apart from today's are faster, fitter and less drunk. What's changed the most for us is the dressing room culture enforcing the same killer mentality on everyone and having a manager powerful enough to move on anyone who doesn't fit with that.
nah they are just shit
SAF himself said that he never did because it would have been counter productive.
Yeah that relationship really isn't the best example, they had a lot of falling outs and he didn't ask by any account he told him.
If you really think Fergie would have taken any refusal from Beckham you're living on another planet
So did Rooney but they did more for our club than the fannies of today will ever do bar de Gea. I am not obsessed with winning but entertain me, show a pride of wearing that Crest or feck off
By the time the modern footballer came around Ferguson was entrenched within the club. He could act in ways other managers couldn't knowing he was in control. He ran the club like a dictator.
Perhaps what Mourinho want to do but not backed by club? He clearly has issues with Pog and Martial. Also agree on SAF not wanting to do with scummy agents, best way to solve certain problems is to proactively not create them, and hopping in bed with Raiola create long term friction.
?the type of stuff that flies on this forum, smh
Not entirely relevant but never miss a chance to watch a proper bo**locking
I don't think Macari has a point, at all, frankly I find it somewhat frustrating that this is how he remembers Ferguson.
The way I see it, Fergie showed that he mastered the ability to handle different players, also the later generation which saw player wages increase exponentially and where young players would instantly earn money to last them a lifetime if managed correctly, him retiring had nothing to do with seeing the writing on the wall for a specific type of managers, and him being one of them. Fergie mentioned it in his own book, the importance of adapting, understanding that what worked 5 years ago might not work today, the need to always evolve. Macari, and quite a few fans I assume, are stuck believing that the problem is that we're not back in the good old days, everything used to be better, simpler. Fergie realized that to get the best out of his players he couldn't just constantly approach them with the hairdryer mentality, he mastered understanding what the various players reacted to, when they needed an arm around them and when they needed the hairdryer treatment. Macari, it seems, doesn't understand that.
Fergie understood that a young Cristiano Ronaldo was more fragile, and needed an extra vacation everyone once in a while to see his family in Portugal. He understood when to give Ronaldo a bollocking, and when to offer him freedom and accept the downsides from it. If Fergie had employed one ring to rule them all, I doubt Cristiano would speak as fondly of the relationship between the two.
In contrast to Mourinho and Hazard: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...oaster-relationship-chelsea-manchester-united
Right from the start, Mourinho would provoke Hazard in front of the squad, telling the team: “Today we’re playing with 10,” to try to goad him into great defensive effort. Initially, Hazard, used to more overtly supportive managers, was troubled. “If he looks you in the eye, it’s terrifying,” he said.
Hazard’s father announced that he saw Mourinho as the manager to give his son “a little more ego”, to make him “a wonderful player” as well as the “fantastic dad and wonderful husband” he already was. Mourinho began to acknowledge his respect for Hazard, highlighting an opponent in team meetings and saying he was “no Maradona, no Messi, no Hazard”.
The warmer approach brought the best out of Hazard and Chelsea won the Premier League as Hazard was named PFA and Football Writers’ player of the season.
But then Mourinho ramped up the pressure, describing Hazard as “my new Messi” while at the same time urging him to take more defensive responsibility. At the same time, Hazard was struggling to recover from a hip problem that afflicted him until last April. At one point a frustrated Mourinho allegedly told him: “You’re not good enough for the top. I’ll have to sell you.” He began to criticise him in press conferences again.
If you ignore the bit about what he allegedly told him, the key point is that the relationship caved in and Mourinho began openly criticizing him in press conferences.
Agent power isn't something new, we bemoaned the same in the early 2000's.
Not sure if Mourinho is able to adapt ala Ferguson. It's difficult to sign 11 players with a set mentality, or 5 for that matter, part of the point is that the manager is a key part of creating a set mentality. I reckon the Liverpool players will do just about anything for Klopp at the moment, same with City players for Guardiola, not so much for Mourinho and part of the fault, imo, lies with Mourinho not being able to understand how to motivate his players.
The way I see it, Fergie showed that he mastered the ability to handle different players, also the later generation which saw player wages increase exponentially and where young players would instantly earn money to last them a lifetime if managed correctly, him retiring had nothing to do with seeing the writing on the wall for a specific type of managers, and him being one of them. Fergie mentioned it in his own book, the importance of adapting, understanding that what worked 5 years ago might not work today, the need to always evolve. Macari, and quite a few fans I assume, are stuck believing that the problem is that we're not back in the good old days, everything used to be better, simpler. Fergie realized that to get the best out of his players he couldn't just constantly approach them with the hairdryer mentality, he mastered understanding what the various players reacted to, when they needed an arm around them and when they needed the hairdryer treatment. Macari, it seems, doesn't understand that.
Fergie understood that a young Cristiano Ronaldo was more fragile, and needed an extra vacation everyone once in a while to see his family in Portugal. He understood when to give Ronaldo a bollocking, and when to offer him freedom and accept the downsides from it. If Fergie had employed one ring to rule them all, I doubt Cristiano would speak as fondly of the relationship between the two.
In contrast to Mourinho and Hazard: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...oaster-relationship-chelsea-manchester-united
Right from the start, Mourinho would provoke Hazard in front of the squad, telling the team: “Today we’re playing with 10,” to try to goad him into great defensive effort. Initially, Hazard, used to more overtly supportive managers, was troubled. “If he looks you in the eye, it’s terrifying,” he said.
Hazard’s father announced that he saw Mourinho as the manager to give his son “a little more ego”, to make him “a wonderful player” as well as the “fantastic dad and wonderful husband” he already was. Mourinho began to acknowledge his respect for Hazard, highlighting an opponent in team meetings and saying he was “no Maradona, no Messi, no Hazard”.
The warmer approach brought the best out of Hazard and Chelsea won the Premier League as Hazard was named PFA and Football Writers’ player of the season.
But then Mourinho ramped up the pressure, describing Hazard as “my new Messi” while at the same time urging him to take more defensive responsibility. At the same time, Hazard was struggling to recover from a hip problem that afflicted him until last April. At one point a frustrated Mourinho allegedly told him: “You’re not good enough for the top. I’ll have to sell you.” He began to criticise him in press conferences again.
If you ignore the bit about what he allegedly told him, the key point is that the relationship caved in and Mourinho began openly criticizing him in press conferences.
Agent power isn't something new, we bemoaned the same in the early 2000's.
Not sure if Mourinho is able to adapt ala Ferguson. It's difficult to sign 11 players with a set mentality, or 5 for that matter, part of the point is that the manager is a key part of creating a set mentality. I reckon the Liverpool players will do just about anything for Klopp at the moment, same with City players for Guardiola, not so much for Mourinho and part of the fault, imo, lies with Mourinho not being able to understand how to motivate his players.
Park and Rafael,Fabio still in midfield?
Probably not, though the way it was going you couldn't guarantee it.
Just think he would have bought anyone but Pogba.I wonder how that person must've felt about young Becks in all his lavish and metrosexual splendor if they consider young footballers living the lives of young millionaires to mean that they're 'rappers' masquerading as footballers
Difference is Beckham proved himself on the pitch before, and during his lavish metrosexual splendor, so it was tolerated, until it wasn't and he was fecked off to Real as soon as it was suspected his lifestyle was impacting on his professionalism.
The kind of stuff people are allowed to say on here “in support of the manager” is astounding. I’ve seen on many occasions Pogba referred to as a “bitch”, now there’s the casual racism, calling some of our players “rappers”. Hey, it’s to support Mourinho though, so it’s fine.
Not sure I agree with the generalisation, these modern day players are twice the athletes of 30/40 years ago and have probably worked harder to get the opportunity. Restricting themselves more in alcohol, drugs and partying much more compared to former years of football.
But I can agree that our squad has some weak mentalities.
But I can agree that our squad has some weak mentalities.
In addition to this, Ferguson was a million times the man manager Mourinho will ever be. He figured out the best way to get to individual players, knew who needed an arm around the shoulder and who needed the hairdryer. He wasn’t all shouting at the players, as this would have you believe. People pissing on fergie’s legacy yet again to try and defend the current manager. We’ve seen it now with Moyes, Vangle and Mourinho. When you’ve run out of ways to defend the underperforming manager, say SAF would have struggled as well
Mental strength is something that's developed over the years. Read Guardiolas comments on working with Sane.
In addition to this, Ferguson was a million times the man manager Mourinho will ever be. He figured out the best way to get to individual players, knew who needed an arm around the shoulder and who needed the hairdryer. He wasn’t all shouting at the players, as this would have you believe. People pissing on fergie’s legacy yet again to try and defend the current manager. We’ve seen it now with Moyes, Vangle and Mourinho. When you’ve run out of ways to defend the underperforming manager, say SAF would have struggled as well
I think the point with SAF was that he recruited mentally strong players who reacted positively to the hairdryer (Rooney being an example), when he did have players who didn't react well to being yelled at he consciously didn't do it to them (Nani being a good example).
Which is pretty much what Mourinho is doing now, except we have far more Nanis than Rooneys.
Most people would not respond positively to their boss lashing out at them in work.
There's probably a few on here crying out for our manager to slam the door, tell everyone to sit down and not to talk...
I don't think the modern day footballer can handle an old fashioned telling off, far too pampered.
I don't think the modern day footballer can handle an old fashioned telling off, far too pampered.
As Lee Sharpe said Fergie would deal with different played differently
His man management was based on the individuals and if wasn't the same for everybody (e.g. cantona and giggs were treated differently but ultimately to have the same goal - both performing to win)
For all that we've read about Shaw, haven't see him sulk or complain. Players like darmian, fellaini, young - whether they are good enough doesn't come into it. They might not be but you don't see them refusing to run, sulk, much bad press, rogue interviews with hidden meanings.
It's a mixture of both/ everything - and that could be said for a number of things with regards to what is wrong with us now (all blame can't be pointed in one direction)
His man management was based on the individuals and if wasn't the same for everybody (e.g. cantona and giggs were treated differently but ultimately to have the same goal - both performing to win)
For all that we've read about Shaw, haven't see him sulk or complain. Players like darmian, fellaini, young - whether they are good enough doesn't come into it. They might not be but you don't see them refusing to run, sulk, much bad press, rogue interviews with hidden meanings.
It's a mixture of both/ everything - and that could be said for a number of things with regards to what is wrong with us now (all blame can't be pointed in one direction)
SAF wouldn't have bought half of this squad and that includes several fan favorite like Pogba and Martial as well.
An other thing about this type of rhetoric is that it gives the impression that old school players never failed or underperformed, that they always reacted positively to tongue lashings. Surely people realize that it's not even close to be accurate.
Probably not, though the way it was going you couldn't guarantee it.
Yeah I am pretty sure Fergie and Gill wouldnt have done business with Riola.
Then he would have adapted as necessary to having more Nani’s, and you can be sure he would have done it without appearing in front of a camera, and said the equivalent of “woe is me, I can’t throw my players under the bus like I want to”.
Meh he’s got a point but it’s no excuse. Look at what Pep has done for Sterling. Fair enough if it was one case but Martial, Pogba, Rashford, Sanchez all underperforming/unhappy/low on confidence tells me it’s just bad man-management.
Hmmmm a black man active with his social media has to be a "rapper" and is posing as a footballer.
Nice one.
Correct. After you have identified a list of players potential for recruitment, then filter off anyone who has had created trouble in the past, then further tick out blacklist agents. If there is no-one left on the list, then wider your search to include 19-35 years old. No wonder Mourinho favour 28-31 years old, they are at least more mature
Beckham isn't black so it was okay, he wasn't a "rapper" pretending to be a footballer.I wonder how that person must've felt about young Becks in all his lavish and metrosexual splendor if they consider young footballers living the lives of young millionaires to mean that they're 'rappers' masquerading as footballers
The key is man management, Fergie was arguably the very best at it. Not just limited to professional sports, every single person in the world is made up of different characteristics. One may need tough love, a good verbal rollicking. The other may need a more gentle, reassuring arm around the shoulder type of talk.
Mourinho is more than experienced enough to know this, just look at success he’s had in his career. So I don’t think that’s the problem at this club
Mourinho is more than experienced enough to know this, just look at success he’s had in his career. So I don’t think that’s the problem at this club
Mourinho is not an idiot. It's very obvious which players are going to react well to which treatments, and a good manager will use both approaches.
Jose wouldn't have gotten this far without being able to do it all.
Jose wouldn't have gotten this far without being able to do it all.
The players do seem weaker these days. More like boys than men. In the past the kids seemed to quickly be shown how to take a weight on their shoulders. Take responsibility.
To be able to have a go at people and it actually be effective though you need to gain respect. Obviously as a manager you get some to begin with, but you need to build rapport to get more. Just like any management. Fergie was the master of that. They'd want to do better for him.
To be able to have a go at people and it actually be effective though you need to gain respect. Obviously as a manager you get some to begin with, but you need to build rapport to get more. Just like any management. Fergie was the master of that. They'd want to do better for him.
Just look at how Fergie treated Cantona. He wasn't just a constant hairdryer; if the player was good enough, he found a way to get to him more often than not.
Well he went after luke shaw, and luke shaw seems to have taken it all on board and is fighting for his place in the team and in doing so is making himself a better player. I dont think its the players that have changed, its think society has changed. the media trying to make everyone a victim, and everyone else revelling in the comeuppance of the perceived bully.
Yes he was hard on him, but it wasnt being a dick just to be a dick. It was to challenge him to do better, and it worked. Hes stronger mentally. He didnt cower and moan, he got his head down and did the work. Theres a lot of players that should be looking to luke shaw and taking notes, and not moaning because they cant handle being criticized in public.
Yes he was hard on him, but it wasnt being a dick just to be a dick. It was to challenge him to do better, and it worked. Hes stronger mentally. He didnt cower and moan, he got his head down and did the work. Theres a lot of players that should be looking to luke shaw and taking notes, and not moaning because they cant handle being criticized in public.