Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
NinjaFletch said:
It's only double discourse if you assume that they actually meant the whole world rather than 'America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the white bits of South Africa' which would mean ignoring the pictures they used of a Muslim family sneaking under some barbed wire (apparently in an attempt to get to Europe) alongside their scaremongering about Turkey and other 'poorer countries' joining the EU.
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But that's the thing, it's not Ukip that holds power and even among Ukip it's not people with societal concerns that hold the power. Just look at leave main financers, they are all finance people they don't live with these foreigners and don't care about them, they might not like them but they will try to make money with anyone, they will always go to the option that creates the biggest margin. They only care about the money part, not the social side of things.

You have an actual example in Jim Ratcliffe who was/is a support of Brexit but moved to Monaco, Monaco is effectively an extension of France and the rules that applies there are generally negotiated with the french government who according to leavers doesn't have power and is subjected to Brussels. The man has no principles, he only cares about the tax free conditions that Monaco provides.
 
JPRouve said:
But that's the thing, it's not Ukip that holds power and even among Ukip it's not people with societal concerns that hold the power. Just look at leave main financers, they are all finance people they don't live with these foreigners and don't care about them, they might not like them but they will try to make money with anyone, they will always go to the option that creates the biggest margin. They only care about the money part, not the social side of things.

You have an actual example in Jim Ratcliffe who was/is a support of Brexit but moved to Monaco, Monaco is effectively an extension of France and the rules that applies there are generally negotiated with the french government who according to leavers doesn't have power and is subjected to Brussels. The man has no principles, he only cares about the tax free conditions that Monaco provides.
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Right, but we're not talking about disaster capitalists, who think there is money to be made, but why Joe Public thought it was a good idea. And yeah UKIP the party might have disappeared (although they're bouncing back in recent polls as Little Englanders feel like they're not going to get rid of all the people they didn't want), but only because of an almost wholesale adoption of their policies by the Conservatives.
 
SqueakyWeasel said:
What I can't believe is that there are people that still actually think there is something workable called BREXIT and that it's one political party or another's incompetence (or even more incredibly an uncooperative EU) that is holding the delivery of that dream up.

BREXIT exists, it's just not quite as rosey as the voters were led to believe … and EVERYONE will be worse off if it's allowed to continue. FFS even after 2 years people haven't worked it out. They are still screaming that it would be a betrayal of democracy to do anything other than head blindly into the abyss :lol:

Flying in the face of all the information that has come to the fore since 2016 – that the public were lied to and betrayed, that the public were manipulated, and that the public voted a certain way given the "factual information" they were fed – people still seem to think that there is a workable solution for the fairy tale that is BREXIT and they lay the blame at the feet of the people who are trying to deliver the impossible, or the people who are trying to point out the impossibleness of the situation … rather than the people who lied and promised "the impossible" in the first place.
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Totally agree, you ask 20 Brexiteers what they voted for and each one will come up with a different answer, they don't know what they voted for but in April they will find out and you can bet that they'll all say, that's not what I voted for.

I keep hearing, "No-one voted to be poorer" but that is precisely what they voted for, surely no-one still believes they're actually going to save any money.

A pure Brexit is impossible unless you break the GFA. It also means every single agreement is null and void. Start at square one on 30th March 2019.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Right, but we're not talking about disaster capitalists, who think there is money to be made, but why Joe Public thought it was a good idea. And yeah UKIP the party might have disappeared (although they're bouncing back in recent polls as Little Englanders feel like they're not going to get rid of all the people they didn't want), but only because of an almost wholesale adoption of their policies by the Conservatives.
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If you are only taking about the public then you are right. I though that you were talking about the message in itself.
 
matherto said:
Pro-Brexiters seem to think we can dictate everything to Europe and they don’t matter at all.

It’s delusional self-grandeur, pure and simple.

But we won the war innit?
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What they don't understand is how the EU works and that the EU will never change its rules. I include the government in this as well. Furthermore the government didn't want the UK public to know how the EU works because it was a convenient scapegoat.
 
JPRouve said:
If you are only taking about the public then you are right. I though that you were talking about the message in itself.
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Well yes, the message given to the public. I don't think anyone is disputing that there was a group of rich Brexit backers who supported it because they could make a buck, but they're a vanishingly small portion of the total number of Brexit votes and even if you argue their money was the driving force they still wouldn't have gotten anywhere without having a public receptive to the idea of booting out foreigners.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
In Barnier's speech yesterday he said "The UK wants to and will leave the Single Market and the Customs Union."

Norway does not solve the border problem or customs checks, not only in Ireland but elsewhere as well.
If the UK aren't leaving the CU nor the SM they may as well stay in the EU, that's the best deal they'll get.

I have the opposite view, I think the EU have given up trying to get a coherent position from the UK and just concentrating on making the UK take responsibility for resolving the problem of the border in Ireland.
I also think the EU doesn't want a UK change of government at the last minute so not making life too unpleasant for May.
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I agree with some of that.

We are not going to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. Staying in would be my choice but I fear it will spark civil unrest. We need to get the best deal that we can in the interest of the UK and not any individual, group of individuals or political party.

As it stands I think a Canada +++ could become workable as long as it was comprehensive, lined up regulation closely and took complete account of services. Business would at least get less anxious. There would still be the Irish border but I don't think that is totally unsolvable.

Whatever, Farage and his friends in the ERG need to shut the feck up. They have what they want. If you'd offered them leaving the EU and SM but retaining 'a' customs union three years ago they'd have bitten your hand off. The question on the ballot paper had none of these issue. It just asked whether the UK should stay or leave the EU.

If Farage and co page Wikipedia for a list of EU nations on the 28th March 2019 the UK will be on it. I they do the same on the 30th of March the UK will not be on the list and nor will it be on the list of EEA nations.

Democracy satisfied as far as I'm concerned.
 
Honest John said:
I agree with some of that.

We are not going to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. Staying in would be my choice but I fear it will spark civil unrest. We need to get the best deal that we can in the interest of the UK and not any individual, group of individuals or political party.

As it stands I think a Canada +++ could become workable as long as it was comprehensive, lined up regulation closely and took complete account of services. Business would at least get less anxious. There would still be the Irish border but I don't think that is totally unsolvable.

Whatever, Farage and his friends in the ERG need to shut the feck up. They have what they want. If you'd offered them leaving the EU and SM but retaining 'a' customs union three years ago they'd have bitten your hand off. The question on the ballot paper had none of these issue. It just asked whether the UK should stay or leave the EU.

If Farage and co page Wikipedia for a list of EU nations on the 28th March 2019 the UK will be on it. I they do the same on the 30th of March the UK will not be on the list and nor will it be on the list of EEA nations.

Democracy satisfied as far as I'm concerned.
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I don't think they can now stay in. With regard civil unrest, it is possible that whatever happens in March there will be a large section of the population that will be extremely unhappy. I believe the worst is still to come.

There has been a lot of uncertainty since June 2016 but both sides have hoped that come March things will be more as they had wanted. A lot of people , maybe everyone, will not get what they hoped for. This could spark a lot of resentment on all sides and people realise that leaving the EU did not solve their problem at all but actually made their lot considerably worse.

What should happen is in the best interest of the UK and not what Johnson, Mogg and co want.
Imo I think a Canada type deal will be a disaster. It's OK for to have such a deal with a distant country but working closely with the EU and the proximity of the EU which the UK will still need to continue requires being in the CU and SM.

Still think the UK is sleepwalking to a catastrophe, how big is the question.

If democracy is letting people decide something they clearly know very little about, there is something seriously wrong.
 
Totally agree, you ask 20 Brexiteers what they voted for and each one will come up with a different answer

Ask 20 remainers why the voted tory twice in a short period of time time and I'm sure you'll get 20 different answers. Non of them will make sense either.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
There's now a risk there'll be no Netflix or Spotify for ye post-brexit.

Imagine if the Caf got blocked too...
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That’s only for Brits travelling in the EU. Everyone will still be able to use both if they’re in the UK.
 
Honest John said:
Corbyn in No. 10 would totally eclipse any disaster that Brexit brings.
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I am not a big fan of comrade myself but could he be that worse off an alternative to the grandpa's party. I mean, we're talking of a party who placed someone who had absolutely no idea of how the EU works as Brexit minister, 2 guys who have no idea in the art of diplomacy (Hunt and Boris) as foreign secretary and the Maybot as PM. A party which promised a referendum because they thought it could be easily won only to lose it. Then they triggered an early election thinking that they could easily win and ended up in bed with the DUP instead. They thought a deal with the EU would be easy peasy as the EU needed the UK more then the UK needed the EU and got thrashed again. Then they moved to hard brexit despite stating that only a madman would leave the single market. Then it took almost a year and a half to come out with their proposal to the EU, which was shot down immediately and yet they still insist on it.

Jeremy may still be stuck to the 70s which in normal terms is obsolete. There again he's quite advanced when you compare him to the likes of Rees Mogg who seems stuck to the 19th century. Also if you take antisemitism at a side (xenophobia is mainstream in today's UK politics) his heart seems to be in the right place. Sure he's a Brexiter but at least he wants to protect jobs.
 
My mother in law told me that one of the motorways near them in Kent has been closing 1 day a week to practice turning it into a parking space for lorries that may not be able to head to Europe (or indeed return to Europe) after a hard brexit

Sounding apocalyptic
 
golden_blunder said:
My mother in law told me that one of the motorways near them in Kent has been closing 1 day a week to practice turning it into a parking space for lorries that may not be able to head to Europe (or indeed return to Europe) after a hard brexit

Sounding apocalyptic
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It's bridge maintenance that they are rolling along that whole stretch of the M20. It is however around the same section from the M25 to the West Mailing turn off that they are rumoured to be planning to close and use as an overflow lorry park and customs clearance area to alleviate the pressure on Dover and the Channel tunnel if we do exit the CU.
 
Bury Red said:
It's bridge maintenance that they are rolling along that whole stretch of the M20. It is however around the same section from the M25 to the West Mailing turn off that they are rumoured to be planning to close and use as an overflow lorry park and customs clearance area to alleviate the pressure on Dover and the Channel tunnel if we do exit the CU.
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How is this not even in the media? Surely if it was then people would at least get some sense of the impact crashing out will have, no? I find it ridiculous how little the effects of this have been documented.
 
Massive Spanner said:
How is this not even in the media? Surely if it was then people would at least get some sense of the impact crashing out will have, no? I find it ridiculous how little the effects of this have been documented.
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It's been in the reported in the news a month or so back. Just that no one(Rightly or wrongly)gives a shit.
 
SqueakyWeasel said:
Yeah, but I'll probably get a hell of a lot more crap on here than I normally do if I call them racist as well as stupid ;)
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I'll do it for you. Those who voted Brexit are racist and stupid. And if they don't fall in that category they are short sighted and selfish, I.e. a few business owners are keen to have more control in the international space for their own businesses.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
:lol: stop blaming Brexit voters for brexit :lol:
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Personally I'd like some actuaries to run the numbers on the class action suit that remainers should be entitled to from the Brexiters. All holidays since Brexit have been 20-25% more expensive due to the currency decline. Businesses are not expanding or investing in Britain or in some cases are either leaving or the work they did is being taken from them. That comes at a cost.

Many Europeans do many useful jobs that British are either to lazy or inconpetent to do. We'll end up with a shortfall in nurses, plumbers, electricians, tradesmen, removal men, etc. This all reduces supply and increases demand on the remaining useless British workers who are getting paid for being crap.

I'm struggling to see many upsides and many of them will take decades to fix. You don't suddenly make new trade agreements, or train people to the level required.

Some of the above may not come to fruition as we'll have some sort of agreement for foreign workers, but there is undoubtedly a net negative impact and I think the brexiteers should pay the bill!
 
Stanley Road said:
Totally agree, you ask 20 Brexiteers what they voted for and each one will come up with a different answer

Ask 20 remainers why the voted tory twice in a short period of time time and I'm sure you'll get 20 different answers. Non of them will make sense either.
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The only people I know personally who voted as follows:
2015 Tory
2016 Brexit
2017 Tory
were previously traditional Labour voters.

See that you are suggesting that those who voted Brexit in 2016 are completely devoid of responsibility, presumably pleading insanity.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
The only people I know personally who voted as follows:
2015 Tory
2016 Brexit
2017 Tory
were previously traditional Labour voters.

See that you are suggesting that those who voted Brexit in 2016 are completely devoid of responsibility, presumably pleading insanity.
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Not in the Brexit heartlands of white rural England, they're just racists who love Thatcher.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Not in the Brexit heartlands of white rural England, they're just racists who love Thatcher.
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That's where they live and who now conveniently forget they voted for Blair and hate Corbyn and they hated Thatcher. The Labour/Tory blame game is void as far as I'm concerned as both leaders want Brexit. Brexit is not so much about political parties as some people make out.
Agree that Brexit is principally about xenophobia but it's cross party.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
Many Europeans do many useful jobs that British are either to lazy or inconpetent to do. We'll end up with a shortfall in nurses, plumbers, electricians, tradesmen, removal men, etc. This all reduces supply and increases demand on the remaining useless British workers who are getting paid for being
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We already have a shortage in all of those sectors in Holland, probably in more sectors than the UK. Who do i have to blame for that?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
The only people I know personally who voted as follows:
2015 Tory
2016 Brexit
2017 Tory
were previously traditional Labour voters.

See that you are suggesting that those who voted Brexit in 2016 are completely devoid of responsibility, presumably pleading insanity.
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It doesnt matter a jot what a hard knock brexiteer looks like or what they think. They were delivered their platform by a Tory prick that was voted in by short sighted unintelligent people that now think they have the right to blame others. How feckin demented is that?
 
Stanley Road said:
It doesnt matter a jot what a hard knock brexiteer looks like or what they think. They were delivered their platform by a Tory prick that was voted in by short sighted unintelligent people that now think they have the right to blame others. How feckin demented is that?
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Not saying Cameron wasn't totally stupid in giving them the platform but if you're resolving the Brexiteers from responsibility then you have to likewise resolve those who voted Tory. You can't be more shortsighted than voting for Brexit, you can get rid of a political party within 5 years, you can't rectify Brexit.

Now, however, whoever's fault it is, the UK is in deep trouble. Who the hell is going to get them out of it? It's not going to be the current Tories and it's not going be the current Labour and there's no-one else.
 
1979 UK eletion: (Blue = Thatcher)
380px-UK_General_Election%2C_1979.svg.png

2015 UK election: Blue = Cameron
330px-2015UKElectionMap.svg.png

2016 Brexit vote: Blue = Leave
2_Brexit_percent.jpg
2017 UK election (blue = May)
425px-2017UKElectionMap.svg.png

Brexit vote by party:
hIEX61C.png
32% and 35% of Lib Dems and Labour...61% of Conservatives voted Brexit.


There's an age (old>>young) and regional (rural>urban, south>north) and a direct correlation (2015 vote Conservative) between Conservative voters and Brexit.
 
berbatrick said:
1979 UK eletion: (Blue = Thatcher)
380px-UK_General_Election%2C_1979.svg.png

2015 UK election: Blue = Cameron
330px-2015UKElectionMap.svg.png

2016 Brexit vote: Blue = Leave
2_Brexit_percent.jpg
2017 UK election (blue = May)
425px-2017UKElectionMap.svg.png

Brexit vote by party:
hIEX61C.png
32% and 35% of Lib Dems and Labour...61% of Conservatives voted Brexit.


There's an age (old>>young) and regional (rural>urban, south>north) and a direct correlation (2015 vote Conservative) between Conservative voters and Brexit.
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5% of ukip voters voted to remain... Must say I have my doubts as to the validity of that data
 
Two weeks to the deadline for talks and the government is still negotiating with itself. Can't even agree what to do with the backstop.
This entire shambles is the worst performance I've ever seen of a western government.
The Tories are a renegade group. Just read the headlines this morning.
 
Adisa said:
Two weeks to the deadline for talks and the government is still negotiating with itself. Can't even agree what to do with the backstop.
This entire shambles is the worst performance I've ever seen of a western government.
The Tories are a renegade group. Just read the headlines this morning.
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There's only 4 days left to the summit. Talks with the EU are pointless because the government or parliament will never agree anyway.

One hilarious thing I saw, although rather sad really: The Conservative MP Nadine Dorries backed Davis’s intervention and suggested he should become “interim leader” to deliver Brexit.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
There's only 4 days left to the summit. Talks with the EU are pointless because the government or parliament will never agree anyway.

One hilarious thing I saw, although rather sad really: The Conservative MP Nadine Dorries backed Davis’s intervention and suggested he should become “interim leader” to deliver Brexit.
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Two weeks ago, she was backing Boris. She has issues.
 
sun_tzu said:
Because they might put the general enonomic interest of the country or their principles above voting against a deal without knowing what it is because Corbyn says to...
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That must have been hard to type right ?
 
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