Nar, that’s absolutely nothing at all
like protesting for a new clear more informed referendum now that the UK has much more of an idea what a likely no deal Brexit means for the country.
You're relying on politicians to be informative?
If they were marching for more transparency in politics, and sanctions for politicians who deliberately mislead the general public - so that in the future we will never be in this position again; i'd be the first to show up at the protest.
The Initial Investigation fined them £61k and reported two people to the police. So, been found guilty.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...electoral-law-and-british-democracy-is-shaken
The point is that we don't just dislike the outcome but we also find the dishonesty harmful to the country.
We all know politicians lie and deceive and bend the rules, and have known this for decades. Why would we think Brexit is no different?
It would've been great if the campaign finances issue was highlighted more, because that's evidence of politicians acting in bad faith and has more grounds for raising a second referendum.
Wait what? So even if we ignore the campaign spending and where these funds actually came from, Cambridge Analytica and Aggregate IQ and whatever else they dig up, we should just carry on regardless and ignore the blatant lying that took place?
Do we think if the original vote had been remain, Farage et all would have quietly slunk back into the shadows and not asked for another ref? They even said as much before the vote in the event that it might be a close run thing.
If we have a second ref, with a clear mandate on what it actually entails and people still vote leave, then fair enough. And again, if Remain win I have no issue with leavers going on similar marches to request a 3rd ref if they feel the need given people are generally now much better informed on what will actually happen.
Although I can almost guarantee a leaver march would be a) significalty smaller and b) not nearly as peacefull.
Assuming nothing else changed, and despite the lack of information and clear misinformation spread;
If Remain was voted and Vote Leave marched for a second referendum I would think it was embarrassing too - and I think a lot more people would say the same thing too if it was Farage & his lot leading a march to get a second chance at a vote.
The fact is that it's the reverse, and I feel the exact same way. It doesn't change how I feel about Brexit.
If we're going to do something to help stop the spread of misinformation, or provide a platform for unbiased information on policies ahead of an election - i'd be the first to sign up for it.
But we're in the information age - anybody who doesn't do their own independent research and relies on TV/Newspapers, rumours or family & friends to help form their political opinions doesn't want to be informed.
The idea of a 'clear mandate' in politics implies there will be no bias, politics is about power, and with power there is always influence & bias
We live in a representative democracy. We democratically elect officials to make decisions we are too ignorant to understand the complexities of. Brexit is one of these issues. Screaming “democracy must be protected” while staring down the precipice seems a misplaced sentiment.
Who are you calling ignorant when you say that? There are many smart and well-informed Leave voters, as well as many uninformed Remain voters - and vice versa.
Sure you could say that nobody could've predicted the outcome of Brexit so far - but it was still voted for by millions of people - they weren't all ignorant.
Which goes back to what I said - at what point do we stop?
This another assumption? Cos the last referendum they assume they're not that stupid and they're wrong.
If another referendum is due tomorrow I'd still put a tenner on it being a close vote, with 2nd brexit a not so impossible outcome.
Politicians fails to realized that democracy in the western world is having a drastic changes, who would have thought trump could actually won
I think it would be close too.
I'll be the first to admit that I had my own biases about Brexiters and their intentions and that helped shaped a lot of my opinion about them.
But having been in conversation & debates with a lot of them - especially the ones who don't fit the mould of what I had previously expected a Brexiter to be - I've just learned to accept the decision. I'm still angry and disappointed, but it is what it is.
Not really no. Strongly disagree to be honest.
I'm with those who believe that democracy isn't "You made a choice now deal with it". Moreso "You are a part of this, what do you think? How should we go ahead?".
I don't think by marching we're saying 'how should we go ahead' at all, I think it's blocking us from going ahead until we revisit the vote.
What I find embarrassing is that people have just rolled over and accepted that their lives are going to be damaged by a bunch of ignorant fools. Anyone with even an iota of intelligence knows this will be the worst thing that has happened to the UK since the war.
How long are you willing to put up with it and how long will it be before you are allowed to change your mind?
So your solution is that we should vote again until we vote Remain?
The marching against Trump wasn't just because he was an "ist". It was to express their disgust at their country being led down a path they didn't want it to go down; by a xenophobic, insular, conservative and regressive dinosaur who was going to try and roll back decades of progress towards a more cosmopolitan and open society. The parallels with Brexit couldn't be more obvious.
Let me be clear - what's embarrassing to me, is the idea that we should revisit a vote despite it being voted for democratically.
I've been to two Anti-brexit protests before and after the election, so i'm not against the idea of protesting - i'm against the idea that we should vote again.
The comparisons you're making with Trump aren't obvious because those marches weren't trying to reverse the decision - they were expressing their opinions.
