Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
With regards to MPs being ill informed there are two possibilities

1) They spread misinformation because they simply don't do any research
2) They know full well what they are saying and choose to lie in order to further their political objectives

Wouldn't be surprised if 2 was correct in the majority of cases. These politicians will throw the country under the bus if it results in short time financial or political gains.
 
Embarrassing in what way?

How is it not embarrassing?

A bunch of middle class Southerners upset that a democratic decision went against what they wanted.

I think for a lot of people Brexit is the first decision that has negatively impacted them directly, and they don't like it and want it reversed.
 


The responses to this tweet are outstanding. An elected representative literally being schooled by the general public.

We need to start doing tests before politicians can go for office.
In the real world, there is absolutely no job that doesn't require a vetting process to see if someone is mentally capable, why should it be any different for politicians?
 
How is it not embarrassing?

A bunch of middle class Southerners upset that a democratic decision went against what they wanted.

I think for a lot of people Brexit is the first decision that has negatively impacted them directly, and they don't like it and want it reversed.

If shoe was on the other foot, it would be the same. If you don't like something, you complain especially if you felt that it happened because scrupulous tactics. It's easy for us to sit on a forum complaining about the negative effects of Brexit but are any of us actually trying to do something which could prevent it?
 
I voted Remain, but honestly how embarrassing is it that 700k people marched for a new referendum?

If it actually happened, I'd vote to leave, Brexit means Brexit after all :wenger:

DqBiwNAXQAM_fen.jpg:large

Strange post. Let's not reverse a decision because it would be embarrassing and then follow up with a stereotype of the Brexit voter.
 
How is it not embarrassing?

A bunch of middle class Southerners upset that a democratic decision went against what they wanted.

I think for a lot of people Brexit is the first decision that has negatively impacted them directly, and they don't like it and want it reversed.

And that is embarrasing how? Of course if something is having a negative impact you would want it reversed!

Dont tell me, "will of the people" means people should just ignore the damage this is doing, and will continue to do, to the country because of an advisory ref brought in simply to try and stop Tory infighting.
 
How is it not embarrassing?

A bunch of middle class Southerners upset that a democratic decision went against what they wanted.

I think for a lot of people Brexit is the first decision that has negatively impacted them directly, and they don't like it and want it reversed.
What's more embarassing?

Voting to destroy your own country OR Realising you have made a huge mistake and giving the public an option to possibly avoid disaster.
 
If shoe was on the other foot, it would be the same. If you don't like something, you complain especially if you felt that it happened because scrupulous tactics. It's easy for us to sit on a forum complaining about the negative effects of Brexit but are any of us actually trying to do something which could prevent it?

We live in democracy for a reason. Brexit may have been voted on a bed of lies and ignorance, but it was still voted democratically.
& unless there's evidence of vote tampering or other illicit measures - it is what it is, unfortunately.

Strange post. Let's not reverse a decision because it would be embarrassing and then follow up with a stereotype of the Brexit voter.

The picture was clearly a joke tbf.

And that is embarrasing how? Of course if something is having a negative impact you would want it reversed!

Dont tell me, "will of the people" means people should just ignore the damage this is doing, and will continue to do, to the country because of an advisory ref brought in simply to try and stop Tory infighting.

This is what democracy is unfortunately.

Don't get it confused, I don't like anything about Brexit - but I think it would be disastrous if we try to re-do elections just because the outcome isn't ideal.

What's more embarassing?

Voting to destroy your own country OR Realising you have made a huge mistake and giving the public an option to possibly avoid disaster.

What happens if it's voted for again? Do we do it a third time?

Do you see how easy this can set a dangerous precedent for what democracy truly means?
 
Don't get it confused, I don't like anything about Brexit - but I think it would be disastrous if we try to re-do elections just because the outcome isn't ideal.

True not like we ever re-do elections. We live in a democracy, and this is democracy but we never re-do elections.
 
How is it not embarrassing?

A bunch of middle class Southerners upset that a democratic decision went against what they wanted.

I think for a lot of people Brexit is the first decision that has negatively impacted them directly, and they don't like it and want it reversed.

Would you be less embarrassed if they were working class, or from the North?

As for protesting against “a democratic decision that went against what they wanted” should Americans be embarrassed about all the protest marches against Trump?
 
How is it not embarrassing?

A bunch of middle class Southerners upset that a democratic decision went against what they wanted.

I think for a lot of people Brexit is the first decision that has negatively impacted them directly, and they don't like it and want it reversed.
They quite literally bussed protesters in from ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
 
We live in democracy for a reason. Brexit may have been voted on a bed of lies and ignorance, but it was still voted democratically.
& unless there's evidence of vote tampering or other illicit measures - it is what it is, unfortunately.
Hasn't the Vote Leave been found to have illegally broken the campaign finances regulations?
 
Would you be less embarrassed if they were working class, or from the North?

As for protesting against “a democratic decision that went against what they wanted” should Americans be embarrassed about all the protest marched against Trump?

Nope, that comment was pretty tongue-in-cheek tbf. I'm a middle class Southerner after all.

You're conflating two different things.
They marched to get a second referendum because the outcome of the first referendum wasn't ideal.

If Americans marched to get Hilary sworn in because she won the popular vote - yeah I'd think that's pretty embarrassing too.

That's different to marching against Trump because he's racist, sexist or whatever -ist he shows himself to be.

They quite literally bussed protesters in from ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

Not everyone was southern & middle class obviously, I think it's pretty obvious I wasn't identifying every single person who attended it.

But I was in the area and spoke with a bunch of people who were marching, and that helped form my opinion that it's pointless marching to change a democratically voted decision.
March for the policies that will impact the decision, march against MPs who helped push the Brexit agenda in the first place - those are things that can have tangible effects in the future.

But marching to try to reverse the decision that millions of people voted for? What's the point, and where does it stop?

We get a second referendum and Brexit is reversed. Does the Leave campaign do the same as Remain and we get a third referendum?
We get a second referendum and Brexit is voted for again - do we march to try and get it changed again?
 
Hasn't the Vote Leave been found to have illegally broken the campaign finances regulations?

I think that investigation is still ongoing is it not?

But if there's tangible evidence that can link the financing affecting the vote then that's a better foundation to build an argument against the vote.
 
I think that investigation is still ongoing is it not?

But if there's tangible evidence that can link the financing affecting the vote then that's a better foundation to build an argument against the vote.
The Initial Investigation fined them £61k and reported two people to the police. So, been found guilty.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...electoral-law-and-british-democracy-is-shaken

The point is that we don't just dislike the outcome but we also find the dishonesty harmful to the country.
 
We live in democracy for a reason. Brexit may have been voted on a bed of lies and ignorance, but it was still voted democratically.
& unless there's evidence of vote tampering or other illicit measures - it is what it is, unfortunately.

Wait what? So even if we ignore the campaign spending and where these funds actually came from, Cambridge Analytica and Aggregate IQ and whatever else they dig up, we should just carry on regardless and ignore the blatant lying that took place?

But I was in the area and spoke with a bunch of people who were marching, and that helped form my opinion that it's pointless marching to change a democratically voted decision.
March for the policies that will impact the decision, march against MPs who helped push the Brexit agenda in the first place - those are things that can have tangible effects in the future.

But marching to try to reverse the decision that millions of people voted for? What's the point, and where does it stop?

We get a second referendum and Brexit is reversed. Does the Leave campaign do the same as Remain and we get a third referendum?
We get a second referendum and Brexit is voted for again - do we march to try and get it changed again?

Do we think if the original vote had been remain, Farage et all would have quietly slunk back into the shadows and not asked for another ref? They even said as much before the vote in the event that it might be a close run thing.

If we have a second ref, with a clear mandate on what it actually entails and people still vote leave, then fair enough. And again, if Remain win I have no issue with leavers going on similar marches to request a 3rd ref if they feel the need given people are generally now much better informed on what will actually happen.

Although I can almost guarantee a leaver march would be a) significalty smaller and b) not nearly as peacefull.

Edit - Sorry, to add, I would say you also shouldnt ignore the personal aspect of marches like this. Lots of people are worried about the impact this will have on their lives and may not have anyone they can freely discuss their concerns with. Being involved in such a big undertaking with many like minded people lets you know you are not alone.
 
Last edited:
We live in democracy for a reason. Brexit may have been voted on a bed of lies and ignorance, but it was still voted democratically.
& unless there's evidence of vote tampering or other illicit measures - it is what it is, unfortunately.

Do you see how easy this can set a dangerous precedent for what democracy truly means?

We live in a representative democracy. We democratically elect officials to make decisions we are too ignorant to understand the complexities of. Brexit is one of these issues. Screaming “democracy must be protected” while staring down the precipice seems a misplaced sentiment.
 
How is it not embarrassing?

A bunch of middle class Southerners upset that a democratic decision went against what they wanted.

I think for a lot of people Brexit is the first decision that has negatively impacted them directly, and they don't like it and want it reversed.

This another assumption? Cos the last referendum they assume they're not that stupid and they're wrong.

If another referendum is due tomorrow I'd still put a tenner on it being a close vote, with 2nd brexit a not so impossible outcome.

Politicians fails to realized that democracy in the western world is having a drastic changes, who would have thought trump could actually won
 
We live in democracy for a reason. Brexit may have been voted on a bed of lies and ignorance, but it was still voted democratically.
& unless there's evidence of vote tampering or other illicit measures - it is what it is, unfortunately.



The picture was clearly a joke tbf.



This is what democracy is unfortunately.

Don't get it confused, I don't like anything about Brexit - but I think it would be disastrous if we try to re-do elections just because the outcome isn't ideal.



What happens if it's voted for again? Do we do it a third time?

Do you see how easy this can set a dangerous precedent for what democracy truly means?

Not really no. Strongly disagree to be honest.

I'm with those who believe that democracy isn't "You made a choice now deal with it". Moreso "You are a part of this, what do you think? How should we go ahead?".
 
All I'm seeing and hearing Paul is that there is an anti brexit party out there that no one wants to vote for. Please help me understand why.

That's very easy, the Limp Lettuce is leading it.

Looks like "Don't know" has taken 2nd and put the Limp Lettuce into third place in a two horse race. Incredible feat.

 
Last edited:
I voted Remain, but honestly how embarrassing is it that 700k people marched for a new referendum?

If it actually happened, I'd vote to leave, Brexit means Brexit after all :wenger:

DqBiwNAXQAM_fen.jpg:large

What I find embarrassing is that people have just rolled over and accepted that their lives are going to be damaged by a bunch of ignorant fools. Anyone with even an iota of intelligence knows this will be the worst thing that has happened to the UK since the war.
How long are you willing to put up with it and how long will it be before you are allowed to change your mind?
 
Nope, that comment was pretty tongue-in-cheek tbf. I'm a middle class Southerner after all.

You're conflating two different things.
They marched to get a second referendum because the outcome of the first referendum wasn't ideal.

If Americans marched to get Hilary sworn in because she won the popular vote - yeah I'd think that's pretty embarrassing too.

That's different to marching against Trump because he's racist, sexist or whatever -ist he shows himself to be.

The marching against Trump wasn't just because he was an "ist". It was to express their disgust at their country being led down a path they didn't want it to go down; by a xenophobic, insular, conservative and regressive dinosaur who was going to try and roll back decades of progress towards a more cosmopolitan and open society. The parallels with Brexit couldn't be more obvious.
 
Nar, that’s absolutely nothing at all
like protesting for a new clear more informed referendum now that the UK has much more of an idea what a likely no deal Brexit means for the country.

You're relying on politicians to be informative?

If they were marching for more transparency in politics, and sanctions for politicians who deliberately mislead the general public - so that in the future we will never be in this position again; i'd be the first to show up at the protest.

The Initial Investigation fined them £61k and reported two people to the police. So, been found guilty.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...electoral-law-and-british-democracy-is-shaken

The point is that we don't just dislike the outcome but we also find the dishonesty harmful to the country.

We all know politicians lie and deceive and bend the rules, and have known this for decades. Why would we think Brexit is no different?

It would've been great if the campaign finances issue was highlighted more, because that's evidence of politicians acting in bad faith and has more grounds for raising a second referendum.

Wait what? So even if we ignore the campaign spending and where these funds actually came from, Cambridge Analytica and Aggregate IQ and whatever else they dig up, we should just carry on regardless and ignore the blatant lying that took place?



Do we think if the original vote had been remain, Farage et all would have quietly slunk back into the shadows and not asked for another ref? They even said as much before the vote in the event that it might be a close run thing.

If we have a second ref, with a clear mandate on what it actually entails and people still vote leave, then fair enough. And again, if Remain win I have no issue with leavers going on similar marches to request a 3rd ref if they feel the need given people are generally now much better informed on what will actually happen.

Although I can almost guarantee a leaver march would be a) significalty smaller and b) not nearly as peacefull.

Assuming nothing else changed, and despite the lack of information and clear misinformation spread;
If Remain was voted and Vote Leave marched for a second referendum I would think it was embarrassing too - and I think a lot more people would say the same thing too if it was Farage & his lot leading a march to get a second chance at a vote.

The fact is that it's the reverse, and I feel the exact same way. It doesn't change how I feel about Brexit.

If we're going to do something to help stop the spread of misinformation, or provide a platform for unbiased information on policies ahead of an election - i'd be the first to sign up for it.

But we're in the information age - anybody who doesn't do their own independent research and relies on TV/Newspapers, rumours or family & friends to help form their political opinions doesn't want to be informed.
The idea of a 'clear mandate' in politics implies there will be no bias, politics is about power, and with power there is always influence & bias

We live in a representative democracy. We democratically elect officials to make decisions we are too ignorant to understand the complexities of. Brexit is one of these issues. Screaming “democracy must be protected” while staring down the precipice seems a misplaced sentiment.

Who are you calling ignorant when you say that? There are many smart and well-informed Leave voters, as well as many uninformed Remain voters - and vice versa.
Sure you could say that nobody could've predicted the outcome of Brexit so far - but it was still voted for by millions of people - they weren't all ignorant.

Which goes back to what I said - at what point do we stop?

This another assumption? Cos the last referendum they assume they're not that stupid and they're wrong.

If another referendum is due tomorrow I'd still put a tenner on it being a close vote, with 2nd brexit a not so impossible outcome.

Politicians fails to realized that democracy in the western world is having a drastic changes, who would have thought trump could actually won

I think it would be close too.

I'll be the first to admit that I had my own biases about Brexiters and their intentions and that helped shaped a lot of my opinion about them.

But having been in conversation & debates with a lot of them - especially the ones who don't fit the mould of what I had previously expected a Brexiter to be - I've just learned to accept the decision. I'm still angry and disappointed, but it is what it is.

Not really no. Strongly disagree to be honest.

I'm with those who believe that democracy isn't "You made a choice now deal with it". Moreso "You are a part of this, what do you think? How should we go ahead?".

I don't think by marching we're saying 'how should we go ahead' at all, I think it's blocking us from going ahead until we revisit the vote.

What I find embarrassing is that people have just rolled over and accepted that their lives are going to be damaged by a bunch of ignorant fools. Anyone with even an iota of intelligence knows this will be the worst thing that has happened to the UK since the war.
How long are you willing to put up with it and how long will it be before you are allowed to change your mind?

So your solution is that we should vote again until we vote Remain?

The marching against Trump wasn't just because he was an "ist". It was to express their disgust at their country being led down a path they didn't want it to go down; by a xenophobic, insular, conservative and regressive dinosaur who was going to try and roll back decades of progress towards a more cosmopolitan and open society. The parallels with Brexit couldn't be more obvious.

Let me be clear - what's embarrassing to me, is the idea that we should revisit a vote despite it being voted for democratically.

I've been to two Anti-brexit protests before and after the election, so i'm not against the idea of protesting - i'm against the idea that we should vote again.

The comparisons you're making with Trump aren't obvious because those marches weren't trying to reverse the decision - they were expressing their opinions.
 
Logging back to a crazy about of notifications is wild :lol:

I'm allowed to think that we shouldn't vote again, surely there's nothing wrong with holding that opinion.
 
Honestly the worst kind of people (hypebole!) are those that voted Remain but would now vote Brexit or are resigned to a hard brexit and the economic impact it would bring because it is either embarrassing or that we made a democratic decision as if democracy is finite.

Same kind of people would just stand by while a crash is happening.
 
We all know politicians lie and deceive and bend the rules, and have known this for decades. Why would we think Brexit is no different?

It would've been great if the campaign finances issue was highlighted more, because that's evidence of politicians acting in bad faith and has more grounds for raising a second referendum.
Sorry Villain but I'm afraid that none of what you say justifies your original position. We are getting used to our politicians lying openly now but that is no reason to accept it, we must do something about it. In the past if caught being deceitful they would either resign or be de-selected, now we must put them under pressure to do what is right regardless of people who say it is embarrassing or in their terms undemocratic, it clearly isn't.

The Campaign Finances issue was reported many times, but people don't want to hear it, even those who voted on the funding more to the NHS issue will now deny that was their reason and we know with certainty the reasons many had but don't like to promote. See no honesty, speak no honesty, hear no honesty. Society is being turned on its head and those of us who believe it should be otherwise are still entitled to protest it.
 
So your solution is that we should vote again until we vote Remain?

Personally I don't think it should have gone to a referendum in the first place because people clearly had no idea what they voted for.
But as it did, it is 2 years and 4 months since the referendum and there is much more information available to access easily now.
In that same space of time two general elections were held and people had the choice to change the government.

This is far more important than changing a government, it is a decision that once done will not be easily reversible. There could be a last chance to stop the madness.

It is probably too late anyway but there is one small chance that the UK could stop it.

As I've said before if the UK leave without a deal, and the country implodes on itself it will be the Brexiters that will be shouting the loudest to reverse the decision.
 
If the referendum had offered two clearly defined, realistic alternatives, then I would be willing to respect the result. The problem is that the Leave option was conpletely open-ended and was promoted by Farage, Fox, Johnson etc as a relatively painless process thanks to the inevitable intercession of desperate German car manufacturers and Italian prosecco producers. In October 18, there is no longer any room for delusion as to tbe fact that leaving involves serious downsides and costs and, if we wish to avert complete disaster, compromises. Such a once in a generation upheaval must be decided on the facts, not on bluster and lies. Ideally parliament would make that decision but, as Cameron was moronic enough to throw it open to a referendum in 16, then it can only be settled by s second referendum.
 
If the referendum had offered two clearly defined, realistic alternatives, then I would be willing to respect the result. The problem is that the Leave option was conpletely open-ended and was promoted by Farage, Fox, Johnson etc as a relatively painless process thanks to the inevitable intercession of desperate German car manufacturers and Italian prosecco producers. In October 18, there is no longer any room for delusion as to tbe fact that leaving involves serious downsides and costs and, if we wish to avert complete disaster, compromises. Such a once in a generation upheaval must be decided on the facts, not on bluster and lies. Ideally parliament would make that decision but, as Cameron was moronic enough to throw it open to a referendum in 16, then it can only be settled by s second referendum.
But the remainers shouted this from the rooftops, it wasn't a secret that this was all bullshit.
 
I don't think by marching we're saying 'how should we go ahead' at all, I think it's blocking us from going ahead until we revisit the vote.
My post is referring to what I think democracy means (we can disagree here). The march being the people saying "Hold the feck up! I'm not happy how this is going. Let's do this properly."

What you seem to be saying is let's ignore the people represented by the march (no doubt including the 49%) and go along with these other people (that you don't seem to agree with) because of your interpretation of what democracy means. That's fair enough, I disagree.
 
Sorry Villain but I'm afraid that none of what you say justifies your original position. We are getting used to our politicians lying openly now but that is no reason to accept it, we must do something about it. In the past if caught being deceitful they would either resign or be de-selected, now we must put them under pressure to do what is right regardless of people who say it is embarrassing or in their terms undemocratic, it clearly isn't.

The Campaign Finances issue was reported many times, but people don't want to hear it, even those who voted on the funding more to the NHS issue will now deny that was their reason and we know with certainty the reasons many had but don't like to promote. See no honesty, speak no honesty, hear no honesty. Society is being turned on its head and those of us who believe it should be otherwise are still entitled to protest it.

Be clear on what you're saying here - 'under pressure to do what is right', what are you implying is 'right' here? Millions of people did vote Leave, and not all of them were ignorant or misled. And many of them feel as though it is the right decision for them.

I see society for what it is because i've been disappointed by decisions that have been put place and voted for in the past - so I agree - honesty is definitely lacking but it has been for a large amount of time now. Since the rise of UKIP this has been a thought in the back of my head.

I'm not suggesting you can't protest, hell I was even at the protest and spoke to a lot of people there - plus I love a good protest myself.
I just don't think protesting for a second vote is the right way to go about it, plus isn't the deadline to leave in about 4 months?

Personally I don't think it should have gone to a referendum in the first place because people clearly had no idea what they voted for.
But as it did, it is 2 years and 4 months since the referendum and there is much more information available to access easily now.
In that same space of time two general elections were held and people had the choice to change the government.

This is far more important than changing a government, it is a decision that once done will not be easily reversible. There could be a last chance to stop the madness.

It is probably too late anyway but there is one small chance that the UK could stop it.

As I've said before if the UK leave without a deal, and the country implodes on itself it will be the Brexiters that will be shouting the loudest to reverse the decision.

I agree with that, it shouldn't have gone to referendum in the first place - we can thank Dave for that. He was under pressure to include it because UKIP were gaining seats at an alarming rate, and this was seen as a compromise.

I think the only chance of it ever going through is to extend the deadline to leave the EU then vote on a referendum then - I mean it's technically possible but very highly improbable at this point.

My post is referring to what I think democracy means (we can disagree here). The march being the people saying "Hold the feck up! I'm not happy how this is going. Let's do this properly."

What you seem to be saying is let's ignore the people represented by the march (no doubt including the 49%) and go along with these other people (that you don't seem to agree with) because of your interpretation of what democracy means. That's fair enough, I disagree.

Ok I see what you're saying now, I thought the 'how should we go ahead' was in relation to the Brexit decision - but you're saying it's part of your understanding of democracy as a whole.
In that case, yeah I agree with you - it is about how we should go ahead and proceed as a society, including those we don't agree with.

I think the second vote goes against the 'how should we go ahead' because if it were to happen, we're actively not trying to go ahead, we're trying to turn back first.
 
Did anybody here go to the march on the weekend?

Has anybody been to any brexit marches? Or participated in town halls with your local MPs?

I'm trying to understand what everybody's proximity to this is beyond debating about it on a forum.
 
What is the will of the people? That is all I want to know. The referendum of June 2016 doesn't come close to answering what the people want from the various possible outcomes.

If the majority want to cut all ties with the EU and start afresh; suffering the economic collapse, breaking the GFA, beginning the end of the union, then brilliant... Lets fecking well find out then we can get on with it.
 
But the remainers shouted this from the rooftops, it wasn't a secret that this was all bullshit.

It was foreseeable but could be dismissed at the time as “Project Fear” by leaders of the Leave campaign. It’s likely at least some of the more moderate Leave voters believed those lies and would be consider changing their vote now the picture is clear. Obviously nothing will persuade a significant number to change their mind (like that Geordie in the clip above talking about tbe British Empire) but even a small swing will do the trick.
 
Ok I see what you're saying now, I thought the 'how should we go ahead' was in relation to the Brexit decision - but you're saying it's part of your understanding of democracy as a whole.
In that case, yeah I agree with you - it is about how we should go ahead and proceed as a society, including those we don't agree with.

I think the second vote goes against the 'how should we go ahead' because if it were to happen, we're actively not trying to go ahead, we're trying to turn back first.
Yes. The situation is fluid, not static. It was fecking dumb in the first place. Now? You know where I'm going with this...