It seems like leavers are worried a little that they're no longer the majority, I would have thought that having been lied to about all kinds of things, a normal fair and rational person would understand that public sentiment might change after that becomes apparent and if the majority of the country still wanted to leave, they'd vote that way again. Where as you seem to be of the Republican Senate ilk which is to force things through regardless of any negativity if it happens to be something that you personally want to happen.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It seems like leavers are worried a little that they're no longer the majority, I would have thought that having been lied to about all kinds of things, a normal fair and rational person would understand that public sentiment might change after that becomes apparent and if the majority of the country still wanted to leave, they'd vote that way again. Where as you seem to be of the Republican Senate ilk which is to force things through regardless of any negativity if it happens to be something that you personally want to happen.
Listen mate, i really could not give 2 fukks. Brexit is the least important thing in my life.
You have 2,000 posts in this thread, that's clearly not true. If they made a second vote, you'd be posting here about how it's stupid. In fact I'm sure you were saying that back when the vote happened and people started talking about it, even though your side themselves came out and said they'd push for a second vote if they lost. At least we're pushing for a second vote because your lot changed their minds when they realised they were lied to, rather than what your side said which was 'if we lose we'll just do it again'.
Reading some comments about a second referendum being embarrassing, I thought it was a caf thingy
Is really a thing in the brexit argumentary, now?
After Farage saying that they would persue a second one if they would lose?
Is really a thing in the brexit argumentary, now?
After Farage saying that they would persue a second one if they would lose?
I guess it's the whole "we go high" mindset?
Actually in the original thread pre brexit i said id be surprised if leave won as i didnt think voters had the stones for change. As it turns out I'm half right, 2 GE later and the same shit in charge. Now, keep voting for the same shit and suck it up, i really do not care. You werent lied to by cameron, he promised you the ref and you got it, he did however lie during the campaign about real change and that he would still be there to lead if brexit was chosen. You know this situation is as much the fault of Tory voters as anyone else, until they realise that i cannot take their stance seriously, or that of the British public in general.
Such a WUM. So many posts in this thread, mostly blaming everyone else but Brexiters for your beloved tory brexit.
You've been a mainstay in this thread. People have come and gone and you're still here!
The negotiations were meant to wrap up last week so the UK and the EU 27 could go to their parliaments and ratify the agreements. If this keeps dragging the only options become to withdraw A50 or leave without a deal.
I didn't say anyone was lied to by Cameron? I'm not sure why that's relevant in any way. You're totally right, he didn't lie to us, but everyone on the leave side did with regards to the NHS, the free movement, the trade we were going to have, the impact on our economy, the immigration issues, the laws that supposedly governed us supposedly enforced by the EU, fecking bananas and pillow cases, that's what made people vote, and they were lies. It's hardly surprising that some of the people who voted to leave when they realised they were voting based on bullshit lies they'd been fed, changed their mind. If there is a second vote and those people who voted leave originally not vote remain then that's clearly the sentiment of the country. When new evidence comes to light, it's always appropriate to allow a reaction to that.
What we're seeing (in general, not with you) is those who are still voting leave for their own agenda, are basically reacting with "feck no, I was about to get what I wanted, feck that we were lied to, I want those muslims out of my country, feck off there can be no second vote, fecking remoaners" when they're conveniently overlooking that if it was the remainers, then the second vote would be exactly the same. It's their own side having changed their mind that would lead to a change in the second result, not seeing many leavers acknowledge or reconcile that.
You've been a mainstay in this thread. People have come and gone and you're still here!
Including Nick, I'm still disappointed he's done a runner.
I agree with this.
Indeed... I do wonder if the dup and brexiteers might vote down the budget knowing it would get rid of may and virtually guarantee leaving with no deal as there would be no negotiating for a month or so as they had a leadership election
They want to maintain power after Brexit. They'll just do what they've being doing, kicking every issue down the line then kicking May out and letting her take the blame when no deal is confirmed.
We need him now more than ever because he claims to know what everyone voted for.
I think he voted Liberal at the last election, didn't he? Which would make him one of the very few here that voted for a party not committed to upholding the referendum vote to leave. Along with any SNP voters of course.
He was a staunch Tory pro-brexiter
Yeah, he was pro-brexit. If he wasn't liberal I'm mixing him up with someone else then, my bad.
Almost the polar opposite to me, shame, quite liked him till he revealed his colours.
Not really, i have been blaming tory voters for giving people the platform for brexit. Geddit?
So many posts in this thread, mostly blaming everyone else but Brexiters for your beloved tory brexit.
So many posts in this thread, mostly blaming everyone else but Brexiters for your beloved tory brexit.
Stanley Road - 1813 posts in this thread to be exact. Impressive number.
From what I remember, he said he voted Greens in 2010 but back to the Tories in 2015, as he wanted the referendum.
And realistically, while he was always polite, informed and engaging in conversation, his views pretty much always fell in line with whatever the Tory policies of day happened to be.
No chance he voted Lib Dem.
Whatever helps you and your tory mates sleep at night.
Both sides told a pack of lies in reality, its a bit silly that the remain side keeping talking about the lies as if the remain campaign wasn't also lying to the public. Both sides lied and so which ever way you voted, you were lied to and didn't have all the facts, simple as.
EDIT: It is also disingenuous to suggest that the voters were not aware that a deal would have to be negotiated AFTER the vote.
All in all the structure of the referendum was just really poorly setup, and in reality this whole mess was created by a tory government who really didn't believe the vote would result in a LEAVE victory.
Anyway it's a real shame that people keep voting for this tory government, but I guess the alternative (Labour) are also a mess. We need some serious political change in the UK
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Well this is quite a revelation and the more you look into it....
Although I have a feeling he said he had voted or was thinking about voting Green before Brexit came into the equation.
I agree that the political system needs to change in the UK. The Remain argument was poorly presented in the media but I don't see what the Remain camp lied about. Here I'm talking about facts, not opinions. Leave lied about facts.
The best thing the leave campaign did was label the remain campaign Project Fear, in many senses it was genius and worked a treat.
In reality it probably should have been called Project Reality.
Agreed, even now after the government themselves have published warnings of what would happen in the event of no deal, the Brexiters still don't believe them and still class it as scaremongering because they now believe it is an invention of Theresa May who they think is a Remainer in disguise while the Remainers think she is for the Brexiters. How easily people are manipulated.
The only valid argument for a second referendum is if the original referendum was illegitimate and it's a stretch to say that. I don't think the public were any less informed than usual GEs.
As much as I'd prefer a second referendum in my view it would be circumventing democracy, a vote should follow through to action and a terrible precedent would be set if we overturn referendums and GEs.
We will end up voting to go back in and when we do they'll be difficult challenges as part of those negotiations and huge compromises. Can people really say they'd accept a second referendum in that situation too?
As much as I'd prefer a second referendum in my view it would be circumventing democracy, a vote should follow through to action and a terrible precedent would be set if we overturn referendums and GEs.
We will end up voting to go back in and when we do they'll be difficult challenges as part of those negotiations and huge compromises. Can people really say they'd accept a second referendum in that situation too?
Why do you think this? I'd say that your average Joe - including remain supporters - had no idea what they were asked to vote on. The only comparison to a GE would be if people were voting for new parties they don't know much about. Either way GEs are held every five years to curb this type of thing.
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Why do people keep asking what you would do about a referendum if the roles were reversed. You are either for a ref or not right? Unless we are just expecting hypocrisy as standard? Well... I guess we are, evidently...
What's good for one is good for the other, you can't pick and choose.
What's good for one is good for the other, you can't pick and choose.
When the referendum was made official the choice was made though.
Either ignore the result or stand by it, having another one doesn't make sense.
I stand by my point. There's no way the electorate properly informed themselves about the topic and it's only in the year or so that's past that people have been forced to engage with it properly.
The realities of a potential Brexit are no longer just the stuff of two chinless dudes discussing it on TV. It's now part of debates at work about hire policies, freezing wages and possibly moving offices or warehouses to somewhere in Europe. It's become more manifested in people's every day lives and has a much different atmosphere to the one that preceded the vote.
I'd say it's a good reason for a second vote but you can feel free to differ.
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https://news.sky.com/story/dyson-to-build-new-electric-car-in-singapore-11533056
Pro-Brexiter James Dyson to build electric car in Singapore rather than the UK. Wonder why.
Pro-Brexiter James Dyson to build electric car in Singapore rather than the UK. Wonder why.
Marching for these things will literally have no effect on anything whatsoever.
Come off it Oates, you're a reasonable bloke!
Even if Fener hadn't been from the UK, surely you can see how people from within the EU, having spent years listening to the British complain about the union, listening to their government blame all it's failings on Brussels and then listening to the nonsense, lies and disdain with which the rest of us have been treated over the last few years of this process, might be inclined to think "feck them, let them go and see how green the grass is on the outside... the self important feckers".
It's obviously not every one of you - 48% and probably a few more at this stage are much sounder. But unless you lads are going to deal with the clowns at the helm, you can't expect the rest of us not to want them dragged down a peg or two.
There was a poll a few months ago in which a sizeable percentage of your country said leaving Europe was more important to them than peace in Northern Ireland. On the whole, Britain has more than earned a little bit of insulting.
This is true. 17.4 million is a colossal number of so-called angry people. Pre-June 2016 you'd think that just about everyone, in their daily lives would be seeing anti EU sentiment wherever they looked. You would think that there would be arguments all over the place. Marches, protests, TV documentaries, civil unrest even. But no. I was not aware of any of it apart from news reports regarding the Ukip cause and a small group of backbenchers being a thorn in the side of successive Tory governments.
There may have been some sentiment expressed by some groups regarding the political direction the EU was heading. Immigration was seen to be a problem but the net figures were as high from non-EU as they were from the EU and we supposedly had control over non-EU.
However, I do not know anyone who could tell me what EU regulations were causing their daily lives to be a misery, or how much the UK paid in net contributions to the block. Nor did anyone seem that bothered that the ECJ could trump the UK Courts.
The majority of people, like me, may have had minor issues with the EU but not to the degree that they would want to vote themselves a worse standard of living out of pure principle. The case was not that strong for most I would say.
The mere act of asking the question will lead people to think that they must answer it one way or another (perhaps 'Not Bothered' should have been on the ballot paper). Human nature suggests that people will inevitably find things to be disgruntled about even though they were not particularly worried about them before.
Farage is a an excellent speaker, he is clever and knows exactly what levers to pull. He played to the immigration fears and extended that to suggest that the influx of EU immigrants was directly responsible for the deterioration of the lot of poor disenfranchised people in depressed regions. He and the other Brexiteers whipped up a sentiment almost akin to the rise of Nazism. When people have nothing they always look for someone to blame. Back then it was Jewish people and this time it was EU immigrants.
They convinced the masses that there was no good side to immigration.
For me it was a protest vote and a very large proportion of the 17.4 million had no idea of the consequences.
You will find very few those who will admit to it - this is why you get loud voices on the radio and TV debates shouting "we knew what we were voting for".
Some of them did. But an awful lot didn't.
Should we have another referendum? No.
Should we ignore the referendum? No.
We have to suck it up - in the least painful way possible.
I don't know what that is. Nobody does.