sullydnl
Ross Kemp's caf ID
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2012
- Messages
- 34,063
I'd rather have the deal, because once the March 29 deadline passes I think there may be some subtle softening of positions. If the prospect of no deal could guarantee a second referendum, I'd obviously choose that - but I don't think it would, and any deal is better than no deal (in my opinion).So a question for the British posters on here (almost all Remainers) - would you prefer that May’s deal gets approved or would you want it voted down? Accept the certainty of leaving but with the assurance of short term stability or take the risk on political deadlock which could result in the chaos of crashing out with no deal but does leave open the possibility that parliament might throw this intractable mess back to a second referendum?
Go on then...knife her.
Pretty sure her days are numbered regardless.
I'd rather have the deal, because once the March 29 deadline passes I think there may be some subtle softening of positions. If the prospect of no deal could guarantee a second referendum, I'd obviously choose that - but I don't think it would, and any deal is better than no deal (in my opinion).
A part of me actually empathises with May as she literally has an impossible job.
I dunno, she seems to continually cling on irrespective of what happens around her. The main job remains a bit of a poisoned chalice and so I still struggle to see who wants to actually step up to the plate. Especially when the candidates on show are so incredibly uninspiring.
I do worry how (if it does happen, and I think it will) another referendum/People's Vote will alter the political make-up of our country. I can't help but feel it would perhaps act as a catalyst for a rise in support for more right-wing politics if a new vote was granted and the country voted to remain. Law of unintended consequences and all that.
A part of me thinks it's just better to leave and deal with the fall out, however bad it may be.
The whole thing is just a gigantic mess. Surely history will judge Cameron as the worst PM in modern history, if it doesn't already. A part of me actually empathises with May as she literally has an impossible job.
I'd prefer Mays deal gets approved 100%So a question for the British posters on here (almost all Remainers) - would you prefer that May’s deal gets approved or would you want it voted down? Accept the certainty of leaving but with the assurance of short term stability or take the risk on political deadlock which could result in the chaos of crashing out with no deal but does leave open the possibility that parliament might throw this intractable mess back to a second referendum?
What do you mean by leave properly?I voted remain but I tend to agree with the idea that we have to leave properly now.
We are a democracy and with that comes the responsibility to honour even bad decisions.
We have to be able to self destruct....will it cripple a generation? Probably! and then the people who wanted that can be castrated by history as far I’m concerned. I can’t bear the idea of the Tory backbencher bleating on about the patriotic perfect brexit anymore.
Almost certain no general electionAs the DUP are so unhappy won't they withdraw their supply and confidence agreement? I'd be surprised if they don't, so will the Tories continue as a minority government, or is a general election a certainty?
I do worry how (if it does happen, and I think it will) another referendum/People's Vote will alter the political make-up of our country. I can't help but feel it would perhaps act as a catalyst for a rise in support for more right-wing politics if a new vote was granted and the country voted to remain. Law of unintended consequences and all that.
A part of me thinks it's just better to leave and deal with the fall out, however bad it may be.
The whole thing is just a gigantic mess. Surely history will judge Cameron as the worst PM in modern history, if it doesn't already. A part of me actually empathises with May as she literally has an impossible job.
I do worry how (if it does happen, and I think it will) another referendum/People's Vote will alter the political make-up of our country. I can't help but feel it would perhaps act as a catalyst for a rise in support for more right-wing politics if a new vote was granted and the country voted to remain. Law of unintended consequences and all that.
A part of me thinks it's just better to leave and deal with the fall out, however bad it may be.
The whole thing is just a gigantic mess. Surely history will judge Cameron as the worst PM in modern history, if it doesn't already. A part of me actually empathises with May as she literally has an impossible job.
I voted remain but I tend to agree with the idea that we have to leave properly now.
We are a democracy and with that comes the responsibility to honour even bad decisions.
We have to be able to self destruct....will it cripple a generation? Probably! and then the people who wanted that can be castrated by history as far I’m concerned. I can’t bear the idea of the Tory backbencher bleating on about the patriotic perfect brexit anymore.
The DUP get literally billions of £ to stick with the Tories, so they wont walk away easilyAs the DUP are so unhappy won't they withdraw their supply and confidence agreement? I'd be surprised if they don't, so will the Tories continue as a minority government, or is a general election a certainty?
Can Cameron be blamed for people being stupid enough to vote leave ?
Yes he should never have given the option and clearly got carried away with Scotland vote but I would put more blame on Farage and his racial scaremongering as well as Boris who knew voting leave would be a disaster but used it in a desperate attempt to grab power at any cost .
They and the idiots who listened to their lies are the people to blame the most here
I fact I would blame Ed Miliband for stabbing his own brother in the back as none of this would ever have happened otherwise
Betfair odds on the year of the next general election has the favourite as 2019 (5/4) and the least likely as 2021 (10/1). This obviously proves bog-all but I find it interesting nonetheless.Almost certain no general election
Possibly enough labour MP's hate Corbyn more than the brexiteers hate may (and she gets The Deal through)
And for certain the dup hate Corbyn more than they hate may
More likley they try to take may down but that only triggers a conservative leadership election most likley won by a eurosceptic such as Johnson Davies or mogg... But no requirement for a general election
Dup will probably support the new leader based on a hard brexit
It was £1 billion extra, I believe, which isn't actually a lot as a proportion of the Northern Irish budget. Irish politicians seem incredibly passionate about their causes to me, I can't see that as being anywhere near enough to influence their decision. The loyalists want complete union, I reckon they would sacrifice anything for thatThe DUP get literally billions of £ to stick with the Tories, so they wont walk away easily
Paddy power similar with 2022 at 6/4Betfair odds on the year of the next general election has the favourite as 2019 (5/4) and the least likely as 2021 (10/1). This obviously proves bog-all but I find it interesting nonetheless.
Anythibg... Including the peace process... Yeah actually sadly I think your rightIt was £1 billion extra, I believe, which isn't actually a lot as a proportion of the Northern Irish budget. Irish politicians seem incredibly passionate about their causes to me, I can't see that as being anywhere near enough to influence their decision. The loyalists want complete union, I reckon they would sacrifice anything for that
Could be. I am a gambler but I'm staying right out of this one!Paddy power similar with 2022 at 6/4
Suspect 2019 skewed by significant short term bets
Agree although would help if they stopped voting tory.Politicians of both parties who consciously ended heavy industry, left the worst affected areas to rot and blamed it on the EU and immigration are culpable for Brexit. For many places in this country changes in government over the last 35 years haven't yielded any concrete improvement to peoples' lives, many people saw Brexit as a once in a lifetime chance to effect real change.
Cameron deserves especial blame for doing more than most to make people miserable and scapegoat EU migration whilst reading the mood so disastrously that he actually gave people the chance to vote on it.
It's a multi-faceted issue and obviously the blame can't be fully laid at Cameron's feet, but as PM he should never have put a referendum on the table, and did so only because UKIP was taking away Tory votes. He was arrogant enough to think the country would never vote leave, despite half a decade of austerity and immigrant bashing.
However, simply labeling anyone who voted leave as an idiot isn't at all helpful. People voted for many different things, and it's a complex issue.
Most were at least naive and easily fooled. That includes my Dad who's otherwise a smart, reasonable guy and voted Labour all his life, but fell for some (imo obvious) lies about how it would somehow improve British industry, which he's worked in since he was 16. Still totally ignores all the implosions we see and pretends it's all ok, like most of them from what I've seen. I'm not sure why he thought giving complete power to a Tory government was ever a good idea for it, but also don't think many looked much further than the flurry of crappy 'info' thrown about at the time.
I'd rather we do it again because I think it will actually put all those who've already seen it as justification for their right wing views in their place, rather than see them rise up, and at least in the long term that's surely safer then allowing them to feel like they have some power because they 'won'.
Why are people here so confident that if there was a second vote, the previous vote would be overturned?
Why are people here so confident that if there was a second vote, the previous vote would be overturned?
They won’t though. The irony is that if you offered any of them this deal one week before the referendum they’d have bitten your hand off.Time for brexiteers to put up or shut up.
You are right, thought it was more.It was £1 billion extra, I believe, which isn't actually a lot as a proportion of the Northern Irish budget. Irish politicians seem incredibly passionate about their causes to me, I can't see that as being anywhere near enough to influence their decision. The loyalists want complete union, I reckon they would sacrifice anything for that
A part of me thinks it's just better to leave and deal with the fall out, however bad it may be.
You also have the fact it's taken this fecking long to figure out what the hell the plan is with regards to Brexit, and it's still not clear.I'm the same. The sticking point for me is that Brexit will enable us to negotiate our own bilateral trade deals with whichever nation we want to. The absence of this ability would render Brexit completely pointless and it looks like that could happen! In effect we will remain tied to the EU on far worse terms than we used to have (we had a great deal previously!).
They were discussing on Radio 4 yesterday the idea that a hard Brexit would be 'cleansing' or a chance for a full economic re-calibration and approach. The problem with this is that a lot of people are going to get burned during that process. The people that promote these ideas are nearly always economically Brexit-proof.
I swear i've seen that statement or a differently worded version of it in here a million times already, and it makes less sense every time.I voted remain but I tend to agree with the idea that we have to leave properly now.
We are a democracy and with that comes the responsibility to honour even bad decisions.
We have to be able to self destruct....will it cripple a generation? Probably! and then the people who wanted that can be castrated by history as far I’m concerned. I can’t bear the idea of the Tory backbencher bleating on about the patriotic perfect brexit anymore.