Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Kentonio said:
You’re right that the second part should have just been ‘if the vote is leave, would you prefer May’s deal or no deal’. As for all the ‘why nots’ you posed, I’m just interested in the simplest most effective answer. You could quibble about variations until the cows come home, but the one I suggested covers the bases in a way that would be fair to both sides. You certainly can’t have a 3 answer question like the one you suggested because it would be a flagrant attempt to rig the vote for Remain.
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This serves nothing. The leavers as it is doesn't care if you leave with may or without may's deal.

It doesnt work.

Imho the best solution is to exit eu totally. Feel the pinch. Reenter the eu in 2 or 3 years without referendum etc. Just made it an executive decision.
 
Raabs doing his pitch for the leadership on the Andrew maar show right now

The EU bullied may into a deal... I can't sign up the country I love into this deal

Avoiding the would you stand in a leadership election question... I am not getting sucked into answering that ..

Yup he's in full campaign mode
 
vidic blood & sand said:
The EU isn't better off without us, and TM's deal is not an option, as it will be rejected by just about everyone.
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I think it will in the long term. The UK is no friend of the EU or Europe for all that matters. With the UK out of the way we would have one less enemy within/US lackey to work with. Regarding your second part, well the EU had agreed with TM's withdrawal deal. Id say let the UK electorate vote between this deal, a no deal and staying in the EU.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Obviously if you divide leave options in two, you're lessen the chances of a leave outcome.
I added that this kind of vote would never happen because its DOA in the commons.
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You're not understanding the questions. Maybe you had the same problems trying to understand the intricacies of Brexit?

Slow down. Work through the questions for every possibility, and then come back...
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Obviously if you divide leave options in two, you're lessen the chances of a leave outcome.
I added that this kind of vote would never happen because its DOA in the commons.
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Genuine question. Are you reading the posts you're replying to or just assuming they say what you want them to?
 
devilish said:
I think it will in the long term. The UK is no friend of the EU or Europe for all that matters. With the UK out of the way we would have one less enemy within/US lackey to work with. Regarding your second part, well the EU had agreed with TM's withdrawal deal. Id say let the UK electorate vote between this deal, a no deal and staying in the EU.
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If this was true, why would anyone want to remain in the EU?
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Obviously if you divide leave options in two, you're lessen the chances of a leave outcome.
I added that this kind of vote would never happen because its DOA in the commons.
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Leave isn't divided, it's two different questions with two different options. The second question is only relevant in one scenario, if leave wins the first binary question.

It's the same format than:

Do you want to go to the cinema or bowling?
If you want to go to the cinema which movie do you want to see, Spiderman or Batman?
 
NinjaFletch said:
Genuine question. Are you reading the posts you're replying to or just assuming they say what you want them to?
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Pay attention, fletch.

devilish said:
The problem with that is that it assumes that the EU would be willing to renegotiate. I think patience on that side of the border is running thin

In my opinion the UK should ask the EU if and in what terms the UK will be in if they decide not to leave the EU. Then a second referendum should be set offering the following

A- No deal brexit
B- leaving the EU on the deal negotiated by TM
C- staying in the EU on the conditions discussed and agreed upon with the EU
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How many leave options are there?
How many remain options are there?

What would the likely outcome be if a leave vote was divided?
 
Sky1981 said:
This serves nothing. The leavers as it is doesn't care if you leave with may or without may's deal.

It doesnt work.

Imho the best solution is to exit eu totally. Feel the pinch. Reenter the eu in 2 or 3 years without referendum etc. Just made it an executive decision.
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How is it the best solution? Maybe the only solution but best? :wenger:

Just the poor getting fecked over by the rich and powerful again. No doubt there'll be an exchange of money/power from the poor to the rich while this all works itself out...

Anyway just wanted to say, that bolded bit doesn't cut it. If the leavers don't care how we leave or how it affects people then maybe we should use the 3 questions for vote alternative so they have to actually put some thought into it, and you know, seek information rather than feck themselves by splitting their vote.

Fed up of the apologists just accepting feckries from leavers.
-Don't call them thick they were tricked.
-They're not bigots/xenophobes it's just those on social media.
-They don't care about minutia... So we have to accept that and work around it.

Bollocks... And yes I woke up on the wrong side of the bed...
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Pay attention, fletch.



How many leave options are there?
How many remain options are there?

What would the likely outcome be if a leave vote was divided?
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I don't have a clue about that and honestly this argument has nothing to do with the issue at all. The electorate should have all the options available to him and all the information needed to make an informed decision
 
sun_tzu said:
To be honest I think any 3 option vote would have to be single transferable vote so you end up with a 50%+
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I disagree. Why would the vote of those who want to leave with a deal be transferred to those who want to leave without a deal? As if someone who want to remove an ingrown toe nail would be more then happy to amputate a leg if his preferred option is not available to him.
 
devilish said:
I don't have a clue about that and honestly this argument has nothing to do with the issue at all. The electorate should have all the options available to him and all the information needed to make an informed decision
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I understand that it was an honest idea to give the electorate some feasible options, but the maths would obviously favour remain with your example. That's all.
 
devilish said:
I disagree. Why would the vote of those who want to leave with a deal be transferred to those who want to leave without a deal? As if someone who want to remove an ingrown toe nail would be more then happy to amputate a leg if his preferred option is not available to him.
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You haven't been following this closely enough mate. There are people who would literally choose to regress to a third world country if it meant we "control our borders" and "make our own laws".


Something I haven't seen discussed yet is how we're going to police our fishing waters. There's already an issue with French, Spanish and Dutch trawlers encroaching into British waters. The UK Government even sold a large portion of the UK fishing quotas to a Dutch company, something that wasn't forced by the EU in any way shape or form and is a perfect example of the UK blaming the EU for it's own greed and stupidity.

So what's going to happen when these huge trawlers come into our waters and scoop up all our fish? Which court are we going to take that to? We're probably going to have to spend an absolute fortune building a border force which protects our coastlines and fishing industry. Much cheaper and safer to be under the same arm of EU law.
 
Sky1981 said:
This serves nothing. The leavers as it is doesn't care if you leave with may or without may's deal.

It doesnt work.

Imho the best solution is to exit eu totally. Feel the pinch. Reenter the eu in 2 or 3 years without referendum etc. Just made it an executive decision.
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Why do you imagine the EU would allow the UK back in after a hugely disruptive exit?
 
Sky1981 said:
This serves nothing. The leavers as it is doesn't care if you leave with may or without may's deal.

It doesnt work.

Imho the best solution is to exit eu totally. Feel the pinch. Reenter the eu in 2 or 3 years without referendum etc. Just made it an executive decision.
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This is a fantasy.
 
devilish said:
I disagree. Why would the vote of those who want to leave with a deal be transferred to those who want to leave without a deal? As if someone who want to remove an ingrown toe nail would be more then happy to amputate a leg if his preferred option is not available to him.
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Look at all the referendums ever done in the UK.... It's always structured to get 50%+
It's either gonna be a choice of 2 options (dunno how you do that) or transferable vote

But there is no way they have referendum 1 showing a majority to leave and then end up with say 40% remain and 60% split over 2 versions of leave and then actually leave.
 
sun_tzu said:
I suspect as he won't even say how he would vote he's just going to avoid giving an opinion...

Straight forward honest politics indeed
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:lol:

He said he didn't know because he has no say on what the question in that referendum would be. Not even the fecking People's Vote cretins can decide on what they want it to be. Practice what you preach.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
This is more confirmation that there are some seriously thick stupid morons leading the Leave campaign like Davis, Fox, Raab but Farage is way ahead of them in terms of sheer stupidity. Add to that his xenophobia. How anyone could follow a pathetic moron like this is beyond belief.
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Quite incredible that after all that has gone on, they still believe shite like this. I can see the fallout from Brexit being one of those stupid civil wars that no sane outsider can comprehend.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
The EU isn't better off without us, and TM's deal is not an option, as it will be rejected by just about everyone.
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A federal European Union is easily formed with the UK out of the equation.

So I disagree. Whilst it is disruptive in the short term that the UK leaves it is better that they do so in the long term.
 
RW2 said:
A federal European Union is easily formed with the UK out of the equation.

So I disagree. Whilst it is disruptive in the short term that the UK leaves it is better that they do so in the long term.
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That's interesting that people here are now realising that the EU is evolving into a federation. There's been talk of an EU army recently. People here dismissed these things when I raised them during the run up to the referendum.
 
Pexbo said:
You haven't been following this closely enough mate. There are people who would literally choose to regress to a third world country if it meant we "control our borders" and "make our own laws".


Something I haven't seen discussed yet is how we're going to police our fishing waters. There's already an issue with French, Spanish and Dutch trawlers encroaching into British waters. The UK Government even sold a large portion of the UK fishing quotas to a Dutch company, something that wasn't forced by the EU in any way shape or form and is a perfect example of the UK blaming the EU for it's own greed and stupidity.

So what's going to happen when these huge trawlers come into our waters and scoop up all our fish? Which court are we going to take that to? We're probably going to have to spend an absolute fortune building a border force which protects our coastlines and fishing industry. Much cheaper and safer to be under the same arm of EU law.
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That is fair enough. That is why they can vote a no deal brexit
 
RW2 said:
A federal European Union is easily formed with the UK out of the equation.

So I disagree. Whilst it is disruptive in the short term that the UK leaves it is better that they do so in the long term.
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More easily... But still not easy....possibly in the longer term as they wouldn't have to overcome what would be strong UK objections

But a federal Europe would require more money and I'm not sure there is huge appetite for that at the moment politically ... Especially as the UK contributions will be stopping either very or quite soon depending how things go.

It would probably see financial rules more rigourously enforced ... Watch out for quitaly and grexit

Plus I'm not sure the appetite is there in some of the smaller countries if it means greater power to Germany and France (which I guess given they would be likley to pick up the bill they would want)

So in the short term I don't think it makes it any more likley... Medium to long term quite possibly
 
vidic blood & sand said:
That's interesting that people here are now realising that the EU is evolving into a federation. There's been talk of an EU army recently. People here dismissed these things when I raised them during the run up to the referendum.
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It's destiny.

EU cannot be a list of nations with a common economic policy in the 21st Century with dominant China in the East.
The United States can no longer be trusted and, indeed, even if it is it is time for Europe to move on.

If the UK doesn't want to join then so be it, but it would be a weak and powerless entity out of the EU and very much at the mercy of world events.
 
sun_tzu said:
Look at all the referendums ever done in the UK.... It's always structured to get 50%+
It's either gonna be a choice of 2 options (dunno how you do that) or transferable vote

But there is no way they have referendum 1 showing a majority to leave and then end up with say 40% remain and 60% split over 2 versions of leave and then actually leave.
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The only way it can work is for a preferential system to be set if the 50%+1 threshold isn't reached

Thus lets say remain get 41%, leave without a deal get 39% and TM's option get 20% then the system will investigate the second preference of those on 20% and add them to the tally.
 
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