He doesn't want to get into power does he?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
He doesn't want to get into power does he?
Ugh.
4D chess right?
Don't forget that those of us living in the EU need the UK more than they need us.
He might be right about that...but the problem with such anti-EU arguments is that there's no consideration given as to how the UK would be able to successfully disentangle itself from that system. Ultimately cutting ourselves off economically from close European allies completely isn't particularly viable, as we're currently seeing, and again any complete break with the EU involves a hard border in Ireland...something that obviously isn't viable. Trying to push for the EU to adopt more left-wing stances on various issues is clearly a better approach, albeit a very difficult one. Although due to its size as an organisation, the EU isn't necessarily completely anti-worker and has plenty of protections and rules in place which benefit individuals as well.
Most of the anti-EU left-wing arguments don't really work because they're painfully outdated don't acknowledge that the times have moved on and that some things have changed for good. We're in a more globalised, more interconnected world and that's not going to change.
Like the students did on tuition fees, right?
You can vote on principle and get all high a mighty about it but if the reality is that just helps the greater of two evils then that's on you too.
The electoral system is an affront to democracy, I agree. But I think it's also true that people have been kidding themselves about Labour's outlook on the EU for a couple of years. It should've been obvious when Corbyn said article 50 should be triggered the day after the referendum.
Corbyn really is the worst thing to happen to Britain since the Brexit vote.
I think anyone that expected the Liberals to stand against tuition fees, even as junior coalition partners, has a right to think twice about whether to vote for them again, which many obviously have, and of course Clegg probably lost his job because of it.
The difference is that Corbyn isn't breaking a commitment, he promised Brexit all along, and still does, yet his supporters completely ignore that and will back him again.
Clegg was finished for breaking his commitment, the sooner Corbyn goes for upholding his the better.
Way to go against what the majority of people who voted you in want, Corbyn. It’s a stupid move and a bad one politically.
Its not labours fault that those people dont know what labour stand for.
They wanted an old school labour man in charge, they got him, why the surprise that he wants out of europe?
It doesn't get more directly democratic than a referendum though does it? including the one we had on changing the system. Also it is amazing how often the system people want to change to gives their political view more weight.
Weird, you literally just said the system forces people to choose the lesser of two evils and I agreed with you.
I'd largely given him the benefit of the doubt until now, viewing him as someone who was fairly anti-EU but understood the potentially disastrous consequences that leaving would entail, and viewed his position until now as one of mild pragmatism. Increasingly less convinced that's the case though. And the arguments his supporters continually use to support his current approach rather hilariously involve them suddenly being selectively reliant on polls when they were happy to ignore them before.
It isn't as simple as you claim though is it. The only thing standing in the way of a conservative majority and carte blanch to do the Brexit they wanted was probably people like me who voted remain and then voted Labour despite Corbyn. We live in confusing times.
Firstly, stop doing that.
Secondly, on this issue it couldn't be clearer that its not the system it is the people.
Lastly, its kick off why am I even in this thread right now god only knows.
No it isn't simple. Where people say they 'voted Labour despite Corbyn' then I understand, and was close to it myself, the people I'm getting at are those who, because they support Corbyn, even though they're massively anti-Brexit, just ignore it, pretend it isn't true, and carry on supporting him. He should have been chucked out at the last Labour conference.
I mainly posted it as a reminder to some that Corbyn is very critical of the EU. There seems to be a pattern of every few months certain people being shocked that Corbyn is a politician on the far left.
I would say something similar to the pro reform arguments, which seem based on 90's era incremental ''change''(Actually it's just forcing right wing economics onto people). They don't seem to have realised that global crash in 2008 happened and that their polices afterwards destroyed people lives. That actual fascist are popping up all over Europe at the EU answer is to make sure the budgets are in line.
Also it's only very recently in the UK I've heard talk of reforming EU, for years it's was viewed as a final barrier to stopping tory policies, I have reason to believe that the people who talk about ''reforms'' are actually in interested in forming the eu(Not to mentioned it's pretty much impossible to change treaties).
Oh man, he's always looked like an absolute fecking weapon. The time before beard trimmers.
Fair on the first point, irrespective of his actual views on the EU he's not exactly been saying he'll keep us in the EU recently, and in that regard a lot of the outrage seems manufactured if not misplaced.
I think the thing with 'reformists' though is that it's difficult to put them all into one group, because they're ultimately incredibly varied, coming from different political alignments and in different countries who have different interests within the EU. The wishes of the reformist right in France will be different from a reformist left in Sweden, or Spain, or somewhere else, even if there's plenty of overlap.
And the extent of overlap can vary as well, from mild change to completely overhauling the EU from back to front.
The EU's fairly neoliberal but by the same token I think it's fairly unrealistic to characterise it as entirely right-wing. They've been important in implementing certain initiatives and policies which have either helped workers to a certain extent or which have been beneficial to the environment. And at this point there's no reason leftists across Europe can't push for the left to have a bigger influence within Europe and implement more left-wing policy, even if they struggle to completely reorganise the underlying principles of the organisation as a whole.
That may seem unrealistic to expect, and to an extent it probably is, but as I've established there's not really any way to disentangle ourselves from the EU financially unless we want the economy to suffer badly (therefore hurting the people Corbyn's meant to be helping) or unless we want to break the GFA and reignite tensions in Northern Ireland. I think criticism of certain parts of the EU are fair but unless you've got a response to those two problems above, it's difficult to take serious any argument which defends Corbyn's stance as a Leaver. Whether you view him as as an actual Leaver, or someone doing it because he thinks it's best to stand by the result.
A lot of Corbyn policies on nationalisation, spending, etc violate the EUs, budget and state aid rules and probably require Brexit to be implemented properly?
I believe however it's going to be a mute point. Theresa May has botched the EU withdrawal agreement so badly that it's fairly probable Brexit won't happen. Once the agreement and all other terrible options are voted down, the government / parliament will then prioritize avoiding a no deal Brexit. Despite the drivel being spouted by Leadsom et al neither the parliamentary labour or conservative party support a no deal scenario, despite what there leadership wants or says and there are other options.
Theresa May has walked in to an EU trap. They know the WA won't pass, they've given us the option of unilaterally revoking article 50 as the way out. That is why they've closed negotiations with May, Corbyn or anyone else.
There will likely be a either a referendum or a general election next year imo.
Gone a bit quiet since José was sacked.
I'm not sure all 27 will agree the time extension to do that... Especially macron
Brexit/Corbyn sending Rowling off the deep end.
Fairly sure they would if Brexit could be reversed. Point is article 50 can be revoked unilaterally. A referendum is a terrible idea anyway, result would never be accepted as May hasn't honourably tried to implement the first one.
The EU have realised parliament won't support no deal and the government will collapse if they try. Hence no renegotiation. I don't believe Corbyn wants no deal either even if he supports Brexit.
If no deal looks likely Corbyn can call a confidence vote and win it. Most Tory MPs don't support no deal, Boles already said he would resign the Whip and I'm certain there are a huge amount more.
Once Corbyn wins a confidence vote there are 14 days before a general. Unless half the house votes and passes a confidence motion in the same or a different government. I believe we could see a grand cross party no deal coalition in parliament win such a vote and then rescind article 50, or a labour led one. Labour could attempt to renegotiate, I believe the EU would say "no" though then the same outcome. Would have to be a general after that.
Brexit/Corbyn sending Rowling off the deep end.
If you go on the media section of her Twitter that is all that's been on there since at least Novemeber
Brexit/Corbyn sending Rowling off the deep end.
Got to love it when Harry Potter starts citing scripture. ;0
Significant numbers, as the BBC puts it, of illegal migrants crossing the channel to Britain, in December. Whilst this has nothing to do with EU freedom of movement, it may well have a lot to do with the result of a second referendum, if we have one.
Absolutely nothing to do with the Tories continuously cutting the UK border force budget of course.
If we get a GE instead of a straight referendum I'd want Labour to promise a significant boost in funding for our border force. I'm sure that wouldn't satisfy the proper racists but perhaps it can convince some xenophobes that its a bigger step in getting control of our borders.
I don't know whether such cuts have encouraged the new boat people or not. If there were better checks on ferries and airports wouldn't more migrants turn to the boats rather than fewer?
I agree with the rest, and if Labour wants to win elections that's the sort of thinking they need to do.
Did the border force manage to stop small boats before and turn them around before? Thought this was a newish tactic of people buying small boats and the UK is actually picking them up but is unable to make them turn around due to laws no? We could have ring of boats around the UK but if one of these migrant boats turns up we have to bring them ashore and process them.
I've heard a fair amount of these stories over the last few years so don't think it's that new of a tactic its just the Dover MP has chosen to make it bigger news this week. Whether he's any evidence to back up these claimsof criminal gangs or not is another question.
We only have a measly 2 patrol boats and have for a couple of years i gather largely due to funding cuts. There was a small storm about it last year.
John Redwood awarded a knighthood. This political system and the Royal family need to be binned.
Does that mean he will be voting for May's Brexit deal after all?
Brexit/Corbyn sending Rowling off the deep end.
She absolutely ripped off @Plechazunga's Kopite post
I think not...
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/why-john-redwood-wont-be-mays-knight-in-shining-armour/amp/
He made a blog back in november when his peirage became strongly rumoured that it wouldn't change his vote and indeed if it was seen to change his vote it would be an abuse of the system
The Queen standing in front of a golden grand piano telling people be happier is sure going to rub folks the right way....
Britain's trade minister Liam Fox says 50 per cent chance Brexit may be stopped
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...nce-brexit-may-be-stopped-paper-idUSKCN1OS0OG
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...nce-brexit-may-be-stopped-paper-idUSKCN1OS0OG