Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Paul the Wolf said:
So some 35yo gets only 60% of a vote for an election mandate that last only 5 years. Sounds fair. Not.

Admittedly it's the only way Corbyn would ever get elected but be careful what you wish for.
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The article discusses 'once in a generation' votes (i.e. brexit), which I feel this would be suitable for. I said I agree with the general point, there are some specifics I disagree with. I would probably have votes from everyone below the age of 40/50 weighted equally, then some sort of scaling based on how old you are. Like I said, I think this would work better for 'once in generation votes', but I also think it could work with periodical elections. As the article states, this system motivates politicians to deal with the problems of the future in a pro-active way.
 
Sigma said:
I'm pretty swayed towards this argument in general to be honest.

https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/nnydd8/brexit-proves-baby-boomers-should-get-less-of-a-vote
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It sounds reasonable for genuinely transformational issues like Brexit. The pensioners who overwhelmingly voted leave are also a very inconvenient fact for those trying to portray Brexit as largely some kind of great, misguided cry for help from the left behind. It was in some cases but in many others it was comfortably off old people in the shires reacting to the “this country has gone to the dogs” stories they read in the Daily Mail or Daily Telegraph.
 
MoskvaRed said:
It sounds reasonable for genuinely transformational issues like Brexit. The pensioners who overwhelmingly voted leave are also a very inconvenient fact for those trying to portray Brexit as largely some kind of great, misguided cry for help from the left behind. It was in some cases but in many others it was comfortably off old people in the shires reacting to the “this country has gone to the dogs” stories they read in the Daily Mail or Daily Telegraph.
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I think it was in plenty of cases. The country has gone to the proverbial dogs, but nothing to do with the EU. It's been due to relentless cuts to public services and a decade of stagnating salaries due to the financial crisis. At least in my book. I guess in the phrase itself there's a suggestion of subjectivity in the matter. Easiest thing of all is to blame it all on immigration, which is what the Brexiteers did.

You may argue these cuts were needed in order to re-balance the economy (usually opinions differ on this whether you are left or right leaning) instead of borrowing and hoping to grow our way out of the debt. Assuming that it was the correct course of action simply implies a finality in that the country would go to the dogs post financial crisis no matter what. It still hurt people and keeps hurting them though, and it was all down to a financial asset bubble that bankers and policy makers allowed to get out of control, while leaving the taxpayer to foot the bill. Another reason for a protest vote.

Obviously that doesn't explain the angry pensioners. Their pensions were safe, their properties kept increasing in price due to construction stopping and the jobs market was a complete irrelevance to them. I'm chalking that off to standard old person syndrome, aka "back in my day...". Always complaining and always nostalgic of their youth. No matter how much better things are compared to the past, they will always and forever prefer what is familiar to them and would drag everyone back to that if they could.
 
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Adisa said:
This is what "control" looks like.
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Let’s face it, the average joe blogs in the street didn’t vote for control of ports etc that the MPs drivel on about. They voted on issues such as the perception that Johnny Foreigner is taking too many jobs, ‘sovereignty’ even though no one really has a clue what this buzzword meant and of course the big red bus of lies.

Average joe bloggs looks at reports like this, shrugs and says gerronwithit
 
Adisa said:
This is what "control" looks like.
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So you could have a window of opportunity to smuggle anything you want into the UK, pay no duty, pay no VAT, import all kinds of stuff that don't meet safety standards, firearms, bombs, drugs, immigrants. The gangsters will be getting ready.

Will only last a few days because it won't be the same going back the other way.
 
golden_blunder said:
Let’s face it, the average joe blogs in the street didn’t vote for control of ports etc that the MPs drivel on about. They voted on issues such as the perception that Johnny Foreigner is taking too many jobs, ‘sovereignty’ even though no one really has a clue what this buzzword meant and of course the big red bus of lies.

Average joe bloggs looks at reports like this, shrugs and says gerronwithit
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It all leads back to one problem, there never should have been referendum such as we had. Its been said many times but such a drastic change to the political and economic system should have never been decided by a simple majority.
 
Sassy Colin said:
I never took JRM to be a liar, I thought he had more integrity than that, but...
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It's always hard to have a perceived reality come crashing down around you. This reminds me of the time I discovered my penpal Chinuebze from Lagos wasn't actually third in line to the throne.
 
Brexit is a coup.
 
Sigma said:
The article discusses 'once in a generation' votes (i.e. brexit), which I feel this would be suitable for. I said I agree with the general point, there are some specifics I disagree with. I would probably have votes from everyone below the age of 40/50 weighted equally, then some sort of scaling based on how old you are. Like I said, I think this would work better for 'once in generation votes', but I also think it could work with periodical elections. As the article states, this system motivates politicians to deal with the problems of the future in a pro-active way.
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How ridiculous. Why not find everybody that would vote how you want and ban the rest? Kids these days and their idea of democracy. Fkin loons the lot of them.
 
Stanley Road said:
At the Tijuana border the guards wave yank cars through while there are massive queues getting back to US. Seems logical to me.
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US and Mexico are members of NAFTA and they have bilateral agreements. No deal literally means no deal.
 
JPRouve said:
US and Mexico are members of NAFTA and they have bilateral agreements. No deal literally means no deal.
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Don’t engage with him, he clearly lacks any kind of basic understanding of trade deals (brexiter, colour me surprised) . UK in the no deal scenario would be trading under WTO terms (which it would violate) meaning literally any country would be subject to the same standards (waiving through in this case) when it comes to exporting the goods to the UK.
 
Stanley Road said:
How ridiculous. Why not find everybody that would vote how you want and ban the rest? Kids these days and their idea of democracy. Fkin loons the lot of them.
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The reason for this idea is not based on the way they vote. It is based on how long you have to live with the consequences of the vote.

Anyway, I disagree with referendums in the first place, especially on complex issues such as Brexit. The UK is a parliamentary democracy for a reason.
 
Sigma said:
The reason for this idea is not based on the way they vote. It is based on how long you have to live with the consequences of the vote.

Anyway, I disagree with referendums in the first place, especially on complex issues such as Brexit. The UK is a parliamentary democracy for a reason.
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No less ridiculous.
 
golden_blunder said:
Let’s face it, the average joe blogs in the street didn’t vote for control of ports etc that the MPs drivel on about. They voted on issues such as the perception that Johnny Foreigner is taking too many jobs, ‘sovereignty’ even though no one really has a clue what this buzzword meant and of course the big red bus of lies.

Average joe bloggs looks at reports like this, shrugs and says gerronwithit
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Good post, unfortunately.
 
Sigma said:
The reason for this idea is not based on the way they vote. It is based on how long you have to live with the consequences of the vote.

Anyway, I disagree with referendums in the first place, especially on complex issues such as Brexit. The UK is a parliamentary democracy for a reason.
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I only read in this thread that UK politicians are insane, morons, dumb, incompetent, that they don't know anything, liars, thieves, with personal interests, etc... What they make them any better to decide than a referendum? I mean, sounds pretty worse IMO
 
4bars said:
I only read in this thread that UK politicians are insane, morons, dumb, incompetent, that they don't know anything, liars, thieves, with personal interests, etc... What they make them any better to decide than a referendum? I mean, sounds pretty worse IMO
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They are but also self-serving. If they thought longterm policies would win them votes, they would do it. Giving younger people's votes greater weight would naturally shift focus towards the longterm.

At the moment, almost everything they do is short-term because most of the voting power lies with people who are so not arsed about the longterm.
 
RedChip said:
They are but also self-serving. If they thought longterm policies would win them votes, they would do it. Giving younger people's votes greater weight would naturally shift focus towards the longterm.

At the moment, almost everything they do is short-term because most of the voting power lies with people who are so not arsed about the longterm.
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Im not sure i would trust a bunch of 18 year olds to vote for the best long term solution.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
Im not sure i would trust a bunch of 18 year olds to vote for the best long term solution.
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It wouldn't just be a bunch of 18 year olds, though. It is just that their views would weigh a bit more as they should in things such as Brexit, which will impact younger people's lives more than older people.
 
4bars said:
I only read in this thread that UK politicians are insane, morons, dumb, incompetent, that they don't know anything, liars, thieves, with personal interests, etc... What they make them any better to decide than a referendum? I mean, sounds pretty worse IMO
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Theres a reason the vast majority of the House of Commons voted to remain. Because they understand these complex issues to a far greater detail than the vast majority of the population. We have elections so our representatives can represent us on difficult issues. Some MP's are bad, we have the choice to vote them out in the next election.
 
RedChip said:
It wouldn't just be a bunch of 18 year olds, though. It is just that their views would weigh a bit more as they should in things such as Brexit, which will impact younger people's lives more than older people.
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Its not a sensible solution.

The sensible solution is a mixture of education, prosecution for lies & manipulation, and not holding referendums for such complicated issues.
 
RedChip said:
It wouldn't just be a bunch of 18 year olds, though. It is just that their views would weigh a bit more as they should in things such as Brexit, which will impact younger people's lives more than older people.
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Older people are still parents and grandparents to them though. Likely any decision they make is taken with their children and grandchildren in mind. It may be an old fashioned one fuelled by their dislike of the way the current world is going in contrast to the way they brought up but that doesn't give them any less of a right to have a vote. This idea that young people should be given more of a voice is dangerous and should never come to fruition.

Besides, we'll probably all be those older people in the future with views not aligned to the current world at the time. Should we also be refused the right to vote?
 
Older people are part of society, they are part of the balancing act that we are continuously performing in order to live together in the best conditions possible. Like @GloryHunter07 said, the next step is to educate, make sure that politicians are accountable and collectively have enough humility to understand that there are question that we can't answer and that shouldn't be asked.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Older people are still parents and grandparents to them though. Likely any decision they make is taken with their children and grandchildren in mind. It may be an old fashioned one fuelled by their dislike of the way the current world is going in contrast to the way they brought up but that doesn't give them any less of a right to have a vote. This idea that young people should be given more of a voice is dangerous and should never come to fruition.

Besides, we'll probably all be those older people in the future with views not aligned to the current world at the time. Should we also be refused the right to vote?
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The problem, as I see it, isn't that older people's perspectives are not valid; the problem is that they have less of a stake in the future. As such, even with the best will in the world, they are unlikely to be as mindful of longterm consequences, say a generation down the line, than younger people. Furthermore, without meaning to be rude or ageist, older people haven't the best understanding of what matters to younger people. I work with younger people and, half the time, I do not understand their priorities but I do trust them to choose their own future.
 
JPRouve said:
Older people are part of society, they are part of the balancing act that we are continuously performing in order to live together in the best conditions possible. Like @GloryHunter07 said, the next step is to educate, make sure that politicians are accountable and collectively have enough humility to understand that there are question that we can't answer and that shouldn't be asked.
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Correct. I hope.matey will tell his grandparents tomorrow that they have no right to an opinion.
 
I'm really worried about the kind of repercussions Brexit would have on the EU's stance against vaping. The UK was the only fighting force against the TPD.
 
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