Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It's not even funny... as she would know this. Can't stand these snakes.
Seems like you choose what you want to see. If my posts are triggering and hurting your feelings, you can always put me on ignore
I think you may have something there!
No one more surprised than Farage and Boris, etc. when the result went in, they'd 'struck oil' without realising it was there! No planning however meant there was no cap for the well, no pipes to take it away and no barrels to store it. The situation was compounded however, because the genie (or oil) was out of the bottle and won't go back.
Remain (who had also done no real planning) had a golden chance to take the initiative by addressing the real reasons most leavers voted to leave, instead it chose to carry on with project fear, the 'economy stupid' which had clearly failed in the referendum and then goodness me they allowed 75 year old Vince Cable to initially lead the charge for Remaining. There were even more mistakes, allowing Tony Blair (of all people) to appear as its spokesman in Brussels.
May has made some terrible mistakes, but she has been out done by Remain leadership (if it has one now) the scattered almost routed Leave leadership suddenly realised what it was facing and instead of continuing to scurry from the battlefield, turned and started to dig in, wheeling out JRM/ERG to rally the troops and woo the electorate.
If as seems likely (unless its so much hot air) the EU stands firm, then May will have to make the final choice, leave with no deal, or call Brexit off, either way she wont be around to pick up the pieces.
The way I see it, the issue would be with so called ‘mixed’ trade deals, which require ratification by individual EU member states. In simple terms, these are trade deals that include services, intellectual property rights and other things not deemed an exclusive competence of the EU.
If the UK has an effective veto over these types of trade deals, that would be a big thing for the EU to concede. And if the UK doesn’t have a veto, then we all know it doesn’t mean anything.
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Personally think May will bow down to Corbyn's invitation, slightly altered form of the proposal he put forward is going to get accepted by the EU and will pass through UK parliament I believe. UK will have to stay within the EU Custom Union rather than Turkey's variant though as otherwise it doesn't solve Irish border issue. No-deal isn't going to happen, UK done zero preparations and they know it. The hit would be enormous at all levels no PM is going to take that kind of responsibility on their shoulders.
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Not for the EU but for member states, I mentioned it in a following post.
Sky News reporting:
- May had feck all new to offer
- Donald Tusk much more favourable towards Corbyn plan
- May had feck all new to offer
- Donald Tusk much more favourable towards Corbyn plan
The EU will never accept Corbyn's proposal nor will parliament approve it.
Why do you think EU wouldn't accept it with few modifications? I'm pretty confident it would pass through Parliament given the binary choice between a no deal and this hypothetical agreement with no time for maneuvering.
It would need a lot of modications for the reasons I pointed out earlier but parliament would be better accepting the current agreement (if they're pro-brexit) and they rejected that by a large margin and if they're anti-Brexit they should cancel it.
It's almost like 2016 revisited.
It's like Joseph Fritzl waiting all week for his turn on the prison computer only to spend his half hour emailing family reunion invitations around.
Read between the lines bud. It's not happening.
Is it possible to have a/the CU without being part of the single market and therefore FoM?
What is the downside to CU, independent trade policy?
I laughed at it yesterday - it was an honest reaction. But if the idea of joining a commonwealth with england, australia etc was floated 3 years ago I'm pretty sure I'd have reacted differently. I doubt we'd have wanted to but we'd probably still be diplomatic enough to humour the idea or politely decline as opposed to laugh in their face and tell them to feck off. So the point about Brexit doing a great deal of harm to the relationship is kind of true.
Possibly, they made a good few compromises to put May's deal together. Hard to see FoM not being an issue with the Irish border. Independent trade policy would be an issue obviously. You'd have the same trading standards, if a country was unwilling or unable to make a deal with the EU, they'd have the same issues with you. You wouldn't have much room to maneuver on trade deals.
Realistically your going to align with American or EU trade standards (or maybe China but that seems a tad unrealistic). Everyone does. It means that if you want to trade with some random third country they'll probably also be aligned with the same standards as you and it makes life easier basically. Not to mention that if you dont you've cut yourself off from the 3 largest markets in the world and ... there just isn't much left afterwards and even less once you take out all the countries willingly aligning themselves with them.
No deal brexit means a trade deal with America really.
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Bank of England's forecasts getting bleaker.
Wonder about the look on May's face after Tusk suggesting Corbyn's plan . May can't accept it of course as government would then fall to a no confidence motion.
Nothing changed still. Options are the same as December. The farce continues.
. May can't accept it of course as government would then fall to a no confidence motion. Nothing changed still. Options are the same as December. The farce continues.
Turkey is in the cu but not the single market
Norway is in single market but not the customs union
And yes inability to do your own trade deals would be one of the big drawbacks
We had the UKIP lot in 2016 , now we'll have the Corbynistas. @Sweet Square et al
Just for a start :
Second line of Corbyn's proposal
"a common external tariff" - so the UK are going to have the same external tariff as the EU - decided by the EU - slight problem there possibly - I haven't got time at this moment , will come back later
Wonder about the look on May's face after Tusk suggesting Corbyn's plan
What we informally call the single market is in fact the EEA, it's made of EFTA and the EU. The CU is the custom territory of the EU, Andorra, Monaco and San Marino, Turkey are partially integrated to it when it comes to agricultural goods. In both the EEA and EUCU, member states share their territory which means that everyone is involved in the decision made about what rules apply, who gets in and how, one is strictly about actual trades the other is about their control and registrations.
So I can't objectively answer your second question what one sees as a downside is very subjective, while the UK could see independent trades as a downside, Belgium could see it as a perk.
Would love to see Tusk belt out "oh Jeremy Corbyn"
Your toryism knows no boundries. What is it you actually want?
I don't really care - I'm just an observer pointing out the problems.
It's a fascinating story of voluntary self-destruction.
John Major was the last PM I voted for so Toryism is history unless you're a Blairite.
As regards May and Corbyn - they are the two most atrocious leaders of their parties in my lifetime and that's saying something.
Still he is right and what of the main reasons I don't like EU, The financial crisis showed the true colours of the Union and if a Brexiteer would base his reasons on that and how the EU treated the immigrants, I would understand...if the UK would not do exactly the same, of course
@JPRouve explained it.
Actually the biggest problem is going to be with the UK parliament, imagine the Tory Brexiters being told they had no control over tariffs, I can see JRM's face now.
What about the ECJ, freedom of movement. Almost all the reasons for Brexit are wiped away by Corbyn.
You made the distinction a/the
Being in the CU/SM would remove the need for the backstop, I don't think Corbyn meant that and I think Tusk, if he said it, thought he did.
Here's a pro hard Brexit argument I don't get:
The UK needs to leave the EU and strike up it's own trade deals with the rest of the world because WTO terms aren't good enough. But a no deal Brexit means we'll be on WTO terms with our biggest trade partner, the EU.
This makes no sense to me. Am I missing something?
The UK needs to leave the EU and strike up it's own trade deals with the rest of the world because WTO terms aren't good enough. But a no deal Brexit means we'll be on WTO terms with our biggest trade partner, the EU.
This makes no sense to me. Am I missing something?
Not only with the EU but the rest of the world including the countries that the UK did have trade deals whilst inside the EU.
None of it makes sense.
Mogg wants to eliminate tariffs but even if he could why would anyone need a trade deal. What he really means is that expects the rest of the world to dance to the UK's tune.
Britain wants a pink unicorn and the EU are saying pink is fine but it is the unicorn bit that is impossible.
You can't time limit the backstop because there isn't another condition in there relating what will allow it to end. Tory Brexiteers won't allow it.
Then blame the EU. We negotiate like our only objective is to stop a giant toddler throwing a tantrum.
Surly Teenager: "I'm starving"
Patient Mother: "I'll start dinner, what would you like?"
ST: "Don't care"
PM: "Come on now, what would you like and I'll make it".
ST: "Don't care"
PM: "How about I do Bangers and Mash, you love that"
ST: "No I don't want it"
PM: "You're going to have to tell me what you do want so"
ST: "Fine I'll have Lobster and Caviar"
PM: "Come on now, you're being unreasonable"
ST: "FINE! I'll starve"
PM: "OK, suit yourself"
ST: "You want me to starve! That was your plan all along!"
PM: "I don't want you to starve but I can't make anything until you tell me what you want.
ST: "I told you but you never listen!"
PM: "I'm listening now, what would you like?"
ST: "Don't care"
PM: "Stop being such a little shit!"
ST: "Oh my God I can't believe how abusive you are being. I'm calling child protective services"
Patient Mother: "I'll start dinner, what would you like?"
ST: "Don't care"
PM: "Come on now, what would you like and I'll make it".
ST: "Don't care"
PM: "How about I do Bangers and Mash, you love that"
ST: "No I don't want it"
PM: "You're going to have to tell me what you do want so"
ST: "Fine I'll have Lobster and Caviar"
PM: "Come on now, you're being unreasonable"
ST: "FINE! I'll starve"
PM: "OK, suit yourself"
ST: "You want me to starve! That was your plan all along!"
PM: "I don't want you to starve but I can't make anything until you tell me what you want.
ST: "I told you but you never listen!"
PM: "I'm listening now, what would you like?"
ST: "Don't care"
PM: "Stop being such a little shit!"
ST: "Oh my God I can't believe how abusive you are being. I'm calling child protective services"
Except you are looking at the proximate cause rather than the ultimate cause. The fundamental flaw is that leaving at all is an idiotically destructive act.
Thatch and Major were the worst, Blair part one was good. Corbyn has never been pm so doesn't really count. Wasn't Hague once party leader? What a total cnut he was.
I meant as politicians rather than policies. I despised Blair's reign as PM but he was an intelligent politician.
IDS was awful as well.
There is nothing appealing about May as a politician and Corbyn reminds me of an unintelligent version of Michael Foot who I also thought was hopeless.
Why disaster capitalists are praying for a no-deal Brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...saster-capitalists-no-deal-brexit-environment
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...saster-capitalists-no-deal-brexit-environment