Let them riot, then let the army out on the street with rubber bullets and live rounds. Then they might get a little taster of what it was like to live in NI during the troubles seeing as they’re all so happy to walk away from a peace treaty
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Let them riot, then let the army out on the street with rubber bullets and live rounds. Then they might get a little taster of what it was like to live in NI during the troubles seeing as they’re all so happy to walk away from a peace treaty
Can you imagine that! The brexiteers try to be clever getting the extension blocked and so we end up having to revoke A50 as no deal has been voted down. That would be sweet.
It’s actually a criminal offense in the US although they almost never prosecute it.
It would be sweet - but the amendments to tonight's motion are key, really.
It's all astonishing, really. And Cameron sits in his swanky new shed, having caused all of this for party political reasons.
UK Parliament is like an over cooked parody at times
Off they go.
Fox trying out his leadership speech, they're so obvious it's pathetic
It means, if there were *some* calls for a second referendum after the first one, there will be ten times as many calls for a third one.
The Telegraph, the Sun, the Mail (even with it's new chief), all the right-wing press will keep on and on. 40% of MPs will want it. The tories will vote for a leader who wants another referendum.
It will never end.
it will never end no matter what happens
Can we not just install me as supreme leader?
At least I've had 40-odd years of being British and part of Europe, with all the benefits that that entails. I'll still be British and part of Europe, but not whilst living in the UK. Brexit has been the over-riding reason why we have become Italian residents.
What makes me sad is to think that so many who voted leave probably aren't even giving it a second thought now. They certainly won't be watching parliamentary debates online on a Wednesday night.
Maybe, i guess at least then all these elections will end. I never knew it was a problem but apparently so
I am starting to think this is the least worst solution. Effectively some sort of BRINO (in name only).
We know that the leave vote was overwhelmingly carried by the older generations. I am not too worried about riots etc. I would rather a few people get offended and feel betrayed, than the entire country gets fecked.
Putting it another way - surely following through with Brexit despite all of the warning signs, sets a very dangerous precedent that we [the country] arent interested in experts, and that public opinion must always be right.
There is a popular (and largely inaccurate) phrase that "the customer is always right". If you offered a referendum on drastically cutting taxes, people would vote for it. If you offered a referendum on massively increasing spending on the NHS, people would vote for it. Unfortunately neither of these scenarios might turn out to actually be feasible or realistic. Just because someone wants something, doesn't always mean they need to get it. This is a basic lesson taught to children.
A slightly more cynical and controversial note is on the very nature of capitalist democracy at the moment. We have seen in the USA and in the UK that the truth doesn't really seem to matter any more - what matters is marketing, appealing to the lowest common denominator and rallying people to your banner at any cost. These behaviors have now utterly eclipsed any notion of "doing the right thing" or "the greater good" when it comes to winning votes, sadly.
There is an ideological question here of what the purpose of our MPs (and other countries equivalents) actually is. Is it to implement the "will of the people" at all costs, or is it to do what they believe is best for the people they represent? Ideally the two should of course be aligned, but when they aren't - what do you do then? This is frankly a bigger question even than Brexit. It is a question of ideology and of the very nature of our democracy.
Good post @Walrus, and you're absolutely right about the dilemma that always exists in any democracy.
Did No deal just get rejected under any circumstances?
Jesus only majority of 4. Half that room needs a swift kick in the balls.
Really want to see the breakdown of votes now.
Really want to see the breakdown of votes now.
Wow that was close
Amendment A goes through!
4 votes 
Yes, but not legally binding, interesting to see the response to this
No, that's the Spelman amendment that's been debated, not the motion.
when do we find which way they all voted?
Just for clarity, the amendment that's just been narrowly passed by 4 votes:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...mpt-rule-out-no-deal-revoke-article-50-brexit
*title partially ripped off from the internet
4 bleeding votes. Jesus.
I’m still a bit confused. There’s still a bunch of ways we could get no deal:
- MPs reject extension
- EU reject extension
- With or without extension, if we don’t get a parliamentary majority to some deal
The second amendment that's being voted on right now is the "Malthouse Compromise":
It's fairly meaningless, IMO.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...mpt-rule-out-no-deal-revoke-article-50-brexit
It's fairly meaningless, IMO.
So to get it right, the motion (excluding a no deal brexit) was amended to make it even clearer and now they are voting that the government should try to avoid no deal by exploring the malthouse option with the EU?
I am new to British parliamentary process, so I am asking for help to understand it...
I am new to British parliamentary process, so I am asking for help to understand it...
That was way closer than it should be.
Brexit feels like a plane being flown by Stevie Wonder trying to land in fierce crosswinds and zero visibility with Helen Keller on ATC.
Blind leading the effing blind.
Blind leading the effing blind.
Yup, unreal how close that is. If you didn't know it already, we're fecked. The MPs are a bunch of feckwits
It speaks volumes of our MP's that it was only a 4 vote margin in favour of the only logical and sensible option on the table.
Brilliant at telling us what they don't want but don't tell us what they do want, which is usually the impossible.
If they can only get a majority of 4 against no deal I have no idea how they will get a majority for anything?
Yes, although in effect they tend to be the same as the main motion. If there was a majority for the amendment the main motion should pass
The one advantage of these votes is that it gives cover for no deal not to be included in any referendum, not that we'll get one.
The Tories whipped against it.
Am I wrong, or isn't this just votes on amendments?
Majority of 4 on Spelman/Dromey will translate to a higher majority on the actual motion.
Majority of 4 on Spelman/Dromey will translate to a higher majority on the actual motion.