Champions League Semi Finals (30th April - 8th May)

Cait Sith said:
All of this really sounds funny when you consider that Liverpool have only pasted Arsenal once (5-1) this season from all the top 6 Premier League sides. They did not even create 1 chance against United when the Premier League pole position was at stake. They got obliterated by PSG in Paris with only 1 shot on target (from a penalty) when the group was extremely close with Napoli, PSG and Liverpool and they could have gone out. If not for Hazard's woeful finishing or Lloris gifting them that goal, their Premier League title chase would already have ended by now.

This is a Barca side that only lost 1 meaningful game in 2 seasons and that only after winning 4-1 in the first leg and being completely complacent and switching off in the second, so it was their own doing (or undoing) rather than anything else. The record is 101 undefeated in 110 games.

Busquets has coped well and been part of a midfield that handed out some heavy defeats to a 3 times CL winning Real Madrid side with Ronaldo in it in recent years. Think he'll cope well with Henderson chasing him down.

If this Barca can dish out Man United's biggest defeat in a 2-legged Cup tie in 2nd gear, imagine what they can do when they are forced to turn it on a lot more, which they are capable of.
Click to expand...
The problem here is you're not considering the athleticism of these sides and why things can play out differently from team to team. Barcelona are not the above; they have different strengths, weaknesses and approach play. Liverpool are not the team an unathletic side want to match up with, and to offset the disparity in athleticism and mobility, Barcelona will have to play them off the park, which is not what this incarnation of Barcelona are likely to do, imo, for the reasons stated.

Messi is obviously the X-factor, depending on which one turns up, and if both he and Busquets are on top of their game, things look different. However, I think the likelihood of Liverpool's key players being on their game and executing the plan is higher than Barca doing the same, for me.

Since the draw to the final was made, I've felt Liverpool were the worst possible opponent for Barcelona and I think that's even more the case after we played them.
 
Mark_Barca said:
Man City are really overrated on here. People claiming best 11 and squad in Europe etc.

The back 5 is average. Ederson is not a top 5 GK, Walker is a speed Merchant, Kompany past it and never produced in Europe. Mendy injury prone. Laporte is good but prone to mistakes as evident on Wednesday.

City have more depth but the sub quality is not superior to Barca.

Cillessen > Bravo
Semedo > Danilo
Umtiti > Stones
Dembele = Sane
Otamendi > Vermaelen
Jesus > KPB
Mahrez > Malcolm

Going by the comments on here Barca first 11 is weaker and City are far stronger overall which is inaccurate. Many players at City not strong enough.
Click to expand...


They're not. 100 points last season, possibly again this season with a domestic treble to boot. They're a great side.

Name me 5 clearly better right backs in the world than Walker. Fullbacks are an issue across the board with only a handful of great ones in the entire world. Laporte has been excellent all season but had one poor game, Kompany is still a very effective CB when fit. They've conceded a mere 22 goals in the league all season and Ederson is absolutely perfect for their playstyle and the best keeper on the ball in the world.

Barcelona and City are pretty close in terms of starting XI, but City have the superior manager and are the better coached side. Barcelona obviously have the Messi factor though, so ..
 
I've got a soft spot for Ajax so I'm really hoping they win this year. This will be there last chance for a long time, this team won't see out the summer in one piece.
 
SuperiorXI said:
Barca will play Liverpool off the park.

They couldn't even beat a severely depleted United side.
Click to expand...
Don't think so, I think you're speaking based on your liverpool envy at the moment.
Liverpool's high press will surely test barca's defense and midfield. We could only do it for 15 minutes against them, Liverpool can do it for 90 minutes. You also need to consider that the Liverpool team has an attack with at least 2 levels above ours.
 
Fortitude said:
The problem here is you're not considering the athleticism of these sides and why things can play out differently from team to team. Barcelona are not the above; they have different strengths, weaknesses and approach play. Liverpool are not the team an unathletic side want to match up with, and to offset the disparity in athleticism and mobility, Barcelona will have to play them off the park, which is not what this incarnation of Barcelona are likely to do, imo, for the reasons stated.

Messi is obviously the X-factor, depending on which one turns up, and if both he and Busquets are on top of their game, things look different. However, I think the likelihood of Liverpool's key players being on their game and executing the plan is higher than Barca doing the same, for me.

Since the draw to the final was made, I've felt Liverpool were the worst possible opponent for Barcelona and I think that's even more the case after we played them.
Click to expand...

Atleticism is overrated in this context. Liverpool have to be athletic because they lack the quality to win games any other way but going full throttle and being intense so they play like that all the time. "Heavy metal football", as Klopp would say. Whereas this Barca can win games in many ways, including sitting deeper or playing a slower paced controlled game or going full throttle as well. Alba-Dembélé is the fastest flank in world football right now, there is athleticism for you.

Liverpool's main threat for Barca is VVD on set pieces.
 
Spurs without Kane and Son don't stand a chance against Ajax. Quote me.

Think Barcelona will win the thing though. Messi on form, Coutinho sort of finding his feet, they're just a level above the rest. The biggest game left is Pool, Barcelona, if Barca win that, the final will be a formality.
 
_00_deathscar said:
Are we talking history or very recently?

If it's very recently, this is a different Barcelona beast to the MSN version, nevermind Guardiola's Barca.
If it's history, I can certainly tell you one English side Barca has always had a problem with...
Click to expand...

Just recently, also I think Barca will be immune for the Liverpool counters. But tbh, there is not really something to say about this match, its so unpredictable really
 
KirkDuyt said:
Spurs without Kane and Son don't stand a chance against Ajax. Quote me.

Think Barcelona will win the thing though. Messi on form, Coutinho sort of finding his feet, they're just a level above the rest. The biggest game left is Pool, Barcelona, if Barca win that, the final will be a formality.
Click to expand...

True, but Ajax is weak against opponents that play on counter, Spurs has proven to be great at countering in awaymatches. Ajax lost to Feyenoord earlier this season with 6-2, they got countered away like hell. Also keep in mind that Ajax is now fav in this match.
 
I don't think people have actually watched us play this season if they think we still play 'heavy-metal, full-throttle' football. We don't and we're far more controlled with our approach to games now.
 
Cait Sith said:
Atleticism is overrated in this context. Liverpool have to be athletic because they lack the quality to win games any other way but going full throttle and being intense so they play like that all the time. "Heavy metal football", as Klopp would say. Whereas this Barca can win games in many ways, including sitting deeper or playing a slower paced controlled game or going full throttle as well. Alba-Dembélé is the fastest flank in world football right now, there is athleticism for you.

Liverpool's main threat for Barca is VVD on set pieces.
Click to expand...
I think you misconstrue my point - a hard running team are offset by extreme ball retention and composure; things Xavi-Iniesta were renowned for, or even the MSN side being able to alleviate the midfield via carrying from deep as an interchanging trio.

This current Barcelona are not this press-resistant, possession team. As Busquets has faded, they've had to make concessions, one of which is Messi dropping further and further into midfield to pick up the flack and playmake from deep. Not that this was ever Busquets' role, but in the past, he was a dead certainty to retain under extreme pressure and get Barca 20 yards up the pitch to initiate their play via the rentative midfielder - in the past, this was Xavi, now it's Arthur, from there, the retainer could take the reins, exasperate the opposition and then further advance the play onto the playmaker who in turn opened up the field for the front line.

That is just a jumble and hope now, with Messi having to do two of those jobs himself now at a frequency that leaves the front line barren unless Alba makes the third man and the others shuffle over to balance, in the meantime, Messi then had to get up in support... that's an exhausting, impractical process against a highly athletic, drilled team and it can fall short at the first hurdle if Busquets is not on his game.

Barcelona have done this or that just doesn't factor into this tie unless it was against very similar style opposition to Liverpool, which it wouldn't be as they're probably the best in Europe at what they do and it is very specific, Klopp-centric football.

To stop that dead, you either play them off the park, or you match their energy, fitness and athleticism. The second option is not available to Barcelona; the team, I don't think, are good enough as a unit to execute the first. I think Messi has to be outstanding if they're going to be the side some in here are hoping to see. He, as well as Busquets enable the whole team in different ways. If you can get at Busquets, you force Messi even further back... the further back he goes, the more normal Barcelona's front line will become. Smalling had Suarez's number in isolation, but once Messi entered the equation everything fell apart. Van Dijk will not struggle one vs one with Suarez and Messi cannot be in two places at once, which means the ball has to be progressed in a way that doesn't Traveller him inside 60 minutes.

It's a harder tie for Barcelona than Liverpool, imo. Liverpool have more, safe, ways to hurt Barcelona than the reverse - Alba is such an important component in how Barcelona attack, but him doing so is just hazardous and full of easy chances to 'attack the space ' on the counter, which is Liverpool's bread and butter.
 
Roffa said:
True, but Ajax is weak against opponents that play on counter, Spurs has proven to be great at countering in awaymatches. Ajax lost to Feyenoord earlier this season with 6-2, they got countered away like hell. Also keep in mind that Ajax is now fav in this match.
Click to expand...
Oh believe me I remember the 6-2 part :devil:
 
It is overestimated how Liverpool can hurt Barcelona by staying tight in defense and launching balls into free zones for their runners. It can work against City, who don't react well when teams get into their face and disrupt their flow.

City players are less dangerous when recovering the ball in such situations. They are more likely to unnecessarily slow the play down due to their playing schematics. Also, some of their players lack composure and will lose it, or hold on to it for too long.

This version of Barcelona are not as good as a team, but still have a higher technical level, and are better at improvisation and opportunism. They don't mind soaking up pressure and receiving some punches, and are not likely to panic.

Liverpool's counters still demand players committing to making runs, which leaves space for opposition. And unlike City, they won't overplay or dilly dally with the ball as much. Busquets squares it to Messi between the lines, and good luck dealing with that on repeated basis, while having couple of players out of play. I think they will be very conservative, and for a good reason.
 
Last edited:
Find it amazing that Ajax are faves for the Spurs tie. It's a massive overreaction to the last couple rounds. Ajax are a decent side but they aren't better than Spurs.
 
Come on Ajax!!!!

Everyone outside of Spurs fans wants you to make the final.
 
Stocar said:
It is overestimated how Liverpool can hurt Barcelona by staying tight in defense and launching balls into free zones for their runners. It can work against City, who don't react well when teams get into their face and disrupt their flow.

City players are also less dangerous when recovering the ball in such situations. They are more likely to unnecessarily slow the play down due to their playing schematics. Also, some of their players lack composure and will lose it, or hold on to it for too long.

This version of Barcelona are not as good as a team, but still have a higher technical level, and are better at improvisation and opportunism. They don't mind soaking up pressure and receiving some punches, and are not likely to panic.

Liverpool's counters still demand players committing to making runs, which leaves space for opposition. And unlike City, they won't overplay or dilly dally with the ball as much. Busquets squares it to Messi between the lines, and good luck dealing with that on repeated basis, while having couple of players out of play. I think they will be very conservative, and for a good reason.
Click to expand...

Messi doesn't care about any of that. Barcelona are a different team when Messi is on form and he is. Liverpool give up chances, and Messi doesn't even need a chance with the way he is playing, a misplace pass is all he needs.
 
It seems that Liverpool strategy for the first leg will be shamelessly parking in bus in Camp Nou, and then "attack attack attack!!" in Anfield.

Let's see how that works out, let's see if they can't stop Messi at CN, or beat Busquets (Vidal)-Roberto-Piqué-Lenglet-Ter Stegen at Anfield.

Barça vs Ajax would be a cracking final. Liverpool vs Spurs would be a letdown. No glamour. And a safe bet for Liverpool's 6th title, with belongs to Barça.
 
Last edited:
With PSG,Real Madrid,Man City,Juve gone I think its Liverpool's Champions league title to lose now and ideal opportunity for them to go one better than last year. (no dodgy keeper this year to stop them)

Barcelona is the only team that might stop them but this current Barcelona team aren't a patch on their vintage teams. The way they play will leave themselves open for Liverpool to exploit. For all the talk about Messi against United it should not be forgotten is was fairly anonymous in the 1st leg and his goals in the 2nd leg were due to errors that Liverpool are highly unlikely to make. Their other main threat is Suarez who looks well past his best at the top level. I'll predict 1-1 in the camp Nou and for Liverpool to win 2-0 in Anfield.

Ajax have been the story of this champions league. Great to see underdogs winning like that but like Roma last year they will likely face semi final knock out to English opposition.
 
Barcelona look a lot better and hungrier than last season when it fell apart for them. I'll be very surprised if they don't see off Liverpool. As others have pointed out, the midfield battle is likely to be as one-sided as the Champions League final last season against Real Madrid.

Ajax have been so impressive in the CL this season. I fully expect Ajax to beat Spurs, but Barcelona's big match experience will prove too much for them in the final unfortunately.
 
Fortitude said:
The problem here is you're not considering the athleticism of these sides and why things can play out differently from team to team. Barcelona are not the above; they have different strengths, weaknesses and approach play. Liverpool are not the team an unathletic side want to match up with, and to offset the disparity in athleticism and mobility, Barcelona will have to play them off the park, which is not what this incarnation of Barcelona are likely to do, imo, for the reasons stated.

Messi is obviously the X-factor, depending on which one turns up, and if both he and Busquets are on top of their game, things look different. However, I think the likelihood of Liverpool's key players being on their game and executing the plan is higher than Barca doing the same, for me.

Since the draw to the final was made, I've felt Liverpool were the worst possible opponent for Barcelona and I think that's even more the case after we played them.
Click to expand...
You're making some very fair points. Liverpool have a clear edge in athleticism and their style can certainly cause Barcelona loads of trouble if they play at a reasonably high level. I believe the importance of the teams' athleticism in this tie is slightly overstated, though. Even in the context of Liverpool's style, awareness and discipline are bigger factors than athleticism in my opinion and I don't see a massive advantage for either team in that regard. No athlete in the world can outrun a crisp short pass so he still always needs to be aware and in the correct spot in relation to his teammates or the whole thing crumbles.

And just as Liverpool's strengths seem tailor-made to attack Barcelona's weaknesses (which they are, in fairness!), the same is – at least potentially – true vice versa. The best antidote against any pressing style has always been a team that is skilled, patient and comfortable enough under pressure to keep playing the ball horizontally until the first pressing line is navigated. This was one of Johan Cruyff's key mantras.

Now if we simply assume that Liverpool will be able to hound Barcelona without ever allowing them to exploit the inevitable gaps that this leaves in behind, Barcelona are certainly doomed and Liverpool will crush them. If Barcelona continue to give the ball away sloppily in their own half the way they did at Old Trafford, they are doomed and Liverpool will crush them. If they keep losing possession in generally non-dangerous areas of the pitch but still leave themselves exposed to quick counterattacks by way of laziness or lack of discipline, they are doomed and Liverpool will crush them.

But of course there's just as good a chance of Barcelona not being overly rattled by the press and breaking it somewhat consistently, which would allow them to find open spaces in the middle of the pitch and breathing room for Messi and the midfielders. There's also a decent enough chance that they don't leave themselves exposed too often and don't give the ball away recklessly. And obviously not every Liverpool attack will come on the counter so it will be interesting to see what they do with their own (lengthier) spells of possession. This is especially true because Barcelona themselves are half decent at pressuring up front and winning the ball back high up the pitch, so Liverpool's defenders and midfielders will also be tested in this regard.

In short, this is a 50/50 proposition all the way in my eyes. Neither team will play flawlessly throughout the tie and it's obviously silly to predict catastrophic individual mistakes that may end up deciding the tie, even though it could very well come down to just that. Both teams have been exceptional at home and mostly average away in Europe recently so I have to give a slight edge to Liverpool for having the second leg at Anfield.

Hope I'm wrong and they get smoked, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude
Spiersey said:
Find it amazing that Ajax are faves for the Spurs tie. It's a massive overreaction to the last couple rounds. Ajax are a decent side but they aren't better than Spurs.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I’ve made plenty of money on Ajax this season v Madrid and Juve (so I do see merit in their team this season) but I can’t get behind them for this Spurs tie. Ajax were too young, too athletic and too intelligent for the ageing Madrid and Juve sides but they won’t have that luxury v Spurs. Spurs will beat them easily over the two legs, I feel. Similar to the Dortmund aggregate, if I’m being pushed to give a scoreline.
 
The Spurs considered better than Madrid and Juve...

What's the world coming to. Barça and Ajax are favorites for the final.

I've said many times that people are overrating PL 18-19 way too much.
 
Casanova85 said:
It seems that Liverpool strategy for the first leg will be shamelessly parking in bus in Camp Nou, and then "attack attack attack!!" in Anfield.

Let's see how that works out, let's see if they can't stop Messi at CN, or beat Busquets (Vidal)-Roberto-Piqué-Lenglet-Ter Stegen at Anfield.

Barça vs Ajax would be a cracking final. Liverpool vs Spurs would be a letdown. No glamour. And a safe bet for Liverpool's 6th title, with belongs to Barça.
Click to expand...

I’d fancy Spurs v Liverpool actually. In their league games this season, particularly at Anfield and particularly in the second half, Spurs dominated Liverpool and were without question the stronger team.
 
Buchan said:
I’d fancy Spurs v Liverpool actually. In their league games this season, particularly at Anfield and particularly in the second half, Spurs dominated Liverpool and were without question the stronger team.
Click to expand...
In the game at Wembley we were the better side. I'd fancy us in a one off game against them.

I actually think the winner of our tie with Barcelona will win it now. I wasn't confident about playing Juventus or City in a final but I'd fancy us against Ajax or Spurs.
 
Buchan said:
I’d fancy Spurs v Liverpool actually. In their league games this season, particularly at Anfield and particularly in the second half, Spurs dominated Liverpool and were without question the stronger team.
Click to expand...


What I said. Time for Pool and Spurs to face Barça in the semis or final (?), respectively, not Watford, Cardiff or Sarri's Chelsea.
 
Spiersey said:
Find it amazing that Ajax are faves for the Spurs tie. It's a massive overreaction to the last couple rounds. Ajax are a decent side but they aren't better than Spurs.
Click to expand...
Spurs have both of their goalscorers out for the first leg, and one out for the second. They have to hope there's still a tie to play for by the 2nd leg. Pretty sure Ajax are being made favourites for a lot of people off the back of that.
 
Bulldog United said:
Barcelona look a lot better and hungrier than last season when it fell apart for them. I'll be very surprised if they don't see off Liverpool. As others have pointed out, the midfield battle is likely to be as one-sided as the Champions League final last season against Real Madrid.

Ajax have been so impressive in the CL this season. I fully expect Ajax to beat Spurs, but Barcelona's big match experience will prove too much for them in the final unfortunately.
Click to expand...

I've been sayin' that for weeks. 2018-19 Barça seems dull and even boring next to 2008-13 Barça or even 14-16 Barça, but that's because this season they've been mostly on autopilot, relying on a "third golden age Messi (his best season since 2011-12, in my opinion, even better than 14-15). There's a (huge) difference between "struggling" (Madrid and Atlético, for example) and "autopilot". It's almost too easy for them. 2019 Barcelona doesn't have many "highs-memorable games" but no "lows-disasters" either (zero defeats in the UCL, and a few La Liga accidents vs lesser teams)

People doubting Barça should remember the three games vs Madrid, and arrogant-confident Barça fans should remember the Villareal game 4-4. But predicting a 2-0 at Anfield is bollocks.
 
Casanova85 said:
What I said. Time for Pool and Spurs to face Barça in the semis or final (?), respectively, not Watford, Cardiff or Sarri's Chelsea.
Click to expand...
Barcelona will face Liverpool, and maybe Tottenham, not Getafe, Eibar or Levante..
 
Fortitude said:
If they score first at Camp Nou, they will sit deep and compact and break from deep. Alba then cannot overlap with any certainty and your midfield will have to take risks mindful of the disparity in pace and stamina - for this not to happen you'll have to perform at a vintage as a team I'm not sure you're capable of anymore. You have effective players who aren't devastating: Suarez on his last legs, Coutinho who I don't think anyone would bet their house on to deliver, Dembele, who is erratic and barely trusted to start these games. Your midfield does not score goals - you're a frontrunning team, which is perfectly fine so long as you don't concede.

I think you're going to find Liverpool more stifling than you realise. You've mentioned superiority of players and midfield whilst not acknowledging tactical planning and what they bring to the table. I believe Liverpool are the worst team you can face in this year's competition, not because they are an amazing side, but because they are pretty much custom made to really get under your skin and disrupt your flow as well as you not having a prayer on their counters unless you betray your own game (Alba) which would blunt your attack and make you over reliant on you know who.

Not that he can't do it, moreso it's a tricky condition to put upon him.

As above. Nobody's disputing man for man or technical level just raw effectiveness, where Liverpool's midfield enables the line ahead of them aptly and achieve their objectives effectively in Europe for two seasons straight now. It's not a fluke, they are good at what they are tasked to do. Busquets better roll back the years! ;)

They're a more polished product now and it takes a lot of work to suppress their midfield. They got jittery with nerves but seem to be over that now, unfortunately.

They're not a great team, but they are very good at what they set out to do and that's all that matters.
I think the Messi fest ensures a lot of people watch Barca all season long. I don't think you're an unknown quantity anyway. La Liga isn't the key factor for assessment anyway, just your body of work in the CL.

I think I've covered this in my posts. I think if you don't compromise, the space in behind your fullbacks will actually be your downfall. To me, this is where the tie will be decided, that and how Busquets performs.

By 'great' let's hope that is you putting on a clinic rather than it being a knife edge match or a fire fight as I don't favour you in a back and forth contest with a team of superior fitness.
Click to expand...

Dembele can absolutely be trusted to start, he just came off an injury otherwise he’s comfortably barca’s Second best attacker. When he came on against Lyon the whole match changed. The fact that Barca has been steamrolling teams without him is frightening.

I’ve enjoyed this convo, I’ve spent far too much time in the Messi vs Ronaldo thread so this is a welcome change

:lol:
 
Halds said:
Barcelona will face Liverpool, and maybe Tottenham, not Getafe, Eibar or Levante..
Click to expand...
Same Barca that beat Atletico and Real Madrid. Arguably the best team Liverpool has faced all year. And Barca will be facing the toughest team they’ve played all year.
 
Klopper76 said:
I don't think people have actually watched us play this season if they think we still play 'heavy-metal, full-throttle' football. We don't and we're far more controlled with our approach to games now.
Click to expand...

Let's keep this quiet until after the Barca match. Got to hope Valverde, or whomever is in charge now, is listening to the masses. ;)

Geniuses on here still think Milner and Hendo are our regular midfielders. :lol:
 
Daysleeper said:
Same Barca that beat Atletico and Real Madrid. Arguably the best team Liverpool has faced all year. And Barca will be facing the toughest team they’ve played all year.
Click to expand...
I agree. It's a 50/50 for me. Looking forward to a hard challenge.
 
Daysleeper said:
Dembele can absolutely be trusted to start, he just came off an injury otherwise he’s comfortably barca’s Second best attacker. When he came on against Lyon the whole match changed. The fact that Barca has been steamrolling teams without him is frightening.

I’ve enjoyed this convo, I’ve spent far too much time in the Messi vs Ronaldo thread so this is a welcome change

:lol:
Click to expand...
Here's hoping you do the business! If Dembele does start, he's got the chance to make himself a hero as he'll be the outlet ball with Alba then being able to sit.
 
Dumbstar said:
Let's keep this quiet until after the Barca match. Got to hope Valverde, or whomever is in charge now, is listening to the masses. ;)

Geniuses on here still think Milner and Hendo are our regular midfielders. :lol:
Click to expand...
I hope Klopp doesn't make the mistake of playing his 'trusted' midfield of Henderson, Wijnaldum & Milner. It seems like he's moved away from that now after finally realizing that Henderson as a deeper midfielder doesn't work. I'd go for Fabinho, Wijnaldum & Keita for the first leg.

Would be good if Gomez can get some game time against Cardiff & Huddersfield. Think I'd prefer him to Matip.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.