Red white and blue vs the red white and blue.
WWC19 | Final: USA v Netherlands
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Final will be fairly one sided I think. Dutch incredibly fortunate to be here. They’ve been massively second best for large parts of the game against Japan and Sweden now. USA will have a similar pattern of play but they’ll take their chances and punish them.
There is a never ending background of parts USA feeling they are ‘not-good-enough runaways from the British aristocracy’. It’s founded on truth, and even if it’s mostly well out dated (Clinton - Blair: who was the lap dog?), imperialistic history warrants some extra tolerance from time to time, don’t you think? Though there is a point there.
Nothing against knetball, but fecking yes!
USA has an injured Lavelle and not a completely fit Rapinoe so it's not exactly optimal USA. Their backline against England, especially their two CBs were crap. Easily pulled out of the flat line and bypassed by simple balls in behind. Not exactly a straight forward match for USA as some are already saying. They were too vulnerable in the second half against England when considering the talent should be better than what they are showing tactically.
Even though no one sane would disagree the Dutch will be the underdogs, they do seem to have winners luck on their side. Don't forget the US needed two pks in one of their games or they would ve lost it. The US won't sit as deep as Sweden and physically the Dutch will be able to stand up to the US better so it should be a decent game I hope.
Will be cheering the Dutch on from the first minute like I'm supporting England but I doubt they can do it. Haven't really looked anything special in any of the games I've seen them in.
That said, something to be said for getting to a final without playing well, and they're European champions so clearly a good side. Come on, do the world a favour!
That said, something to be said for getting to a final without playing well, and they're European champions so clearly a good side. Come on, do the world a favour!
There would be a lot of irony in the Dutch women winning an EC and WC during such a short period of time since they started taken women s footie serious over there. Meanwhile the Dutch men...
USA are big favourites, no doubt. The two most difficult questions posed by them is to the Dutch central defence (luckily Van Veenendal is the best keeper of the tournament in dominating the box), and to the physical stamina of the Dutch team. They are not able to pass-and-move-and-interchange for ninety minutes. They are able to punish very defensively diciplined teams though, as they have shown against Canada, Japan, Italy and Sweden.
Maybe a bit victim of their own success - it’s important to remember the Dutch team was a big surprise two years ago when they albeit deservedly won the Euro’s. They lost to Norway in the qualification to this WC despite being on the whole the better team, but they really come gere as outsiders, not favorites.
I agree, deserved! She’s played very well but not fancily eye-catching this WC, and that goal was brilliantly taken and couldn’t happened to a more exciting Red Devil!
Is there a single non American that want the US to win?
Being Dutch i obviously don't want the US to win . Being realistic the US will win . Next WC will be a different story .
Maybe one of the USWNT partners is an immigrant? Other than that, I doubt it.
It's hard to tell. There are like 6 billions of non-Americans out there.
Are they all members of this forum?
What do you think?
I don't think this will necessarily be an easy game for the US. Netherlands are not European champions and in the WC final within 2 years for no reason, they have a very talented team. I don't think they have shown their best side all tournament long though, and I suppose that too is a testament to their quality. They have however, also had a good deal of luck to make it here, specifically against Japan where they were clearly on the ropes toward the end of the match and won it against the run of play with a dubious penalty.
I think the US will need to make their chances count early in the game, as they have done all tournament long. The Netherlands, contrary to the US have started slow every game and ramped it up towards the end (aside from the Japan game) yet somehow have never trailed. I'm not sure how they will react if they fall behind. Perhaps they will throw caution to the wind and play the more appealing attacking style they showed in the European championship or perhaps they will simply wilt.
I think the US will need to make their chances count early in the game, as they have done all tournament long. The Netherlands, contrary to the US have started slow every game and ramped it up towards the end (aside from the Japan game) yet somehow have never trailed. I'm not sure how they will react if they fall behind. Perhaps they will throw caution to the wind and play the more appealing attacking style they showed in the European championship or perhaps they will simply wilt.
You’re quite a pompous cock aren’t you?
The USA didn't look unbeatable to me. This England team has the potential to do it. Japan as well, I think. Possibly not this Netherlands team though. I think USA are very well organised & play in a controlled way against the better teams. They also look fitter than the rest. But I don't think they have all the best players or anything like that.
I've got to go back to VAR & that White penalty.
There is absolutely no way that anyone can tell the extent of the contact that White gets from the knee on the leg. So unless ANY contact is a penalty - the VAR decision on its own ought not to be to give the penalty. If the referee has given it - then probably VAR ought not to rule it out. But according to the VAR fanboys - it's stonewall & obvious & so on & so forth. It might be, but you can't tell that from the TV pictures.
IMO, it wasn't a penalty anyway - unless you show me a clear push or trip from behind which White was trying to with her ludicrous dive, tbf.
But why? - because a ball across like that is there to be competed for, even if it is an open goal for the attacker. Once White starts waving her leg around as though she is entitled to have a free swipe at it - she ought not be surprised if she gets blocked, pushed, obstructed whatever. Or at least that's what or how the 'rule' used to be interpreted. Attacker stays in a compact shape, gets to the ball first, and she scores.
But here we are. Welcome to VAR, welcome to non-contact football in the penalty area. And be very careful with the position of your arms too. The thresholds are now non-existent if VAR happens to look at it.
Should possibly have done that on the VAR thread, but no one really wants to talk about that game last night do they?
I've got to go back to VAR & that White penalty.
There is absolutely no way that anyone can tell the extent of the contact that White gets from the knee on the leg. So unless ANY contact is a penalty - the VAR decision on its own ought not to be to give the penalty. If the referee has given it - then probably VAR ought not to rule it out. But according to the VAR fanboys - it's stonewall & obvious & so on & so forth. It might be, but you can't tell that from the TV pictures.
IMO, it wasn't a penalty anyway - unless you show me a clear push or trip from behind which White was trying to with her ludicrous dive, tbf.
But why? - because a ball across like that is there to be competed for, even if it is an open goal for the attacker. Once White starts waving her leg around as though she is entitled to have a free swipe at it - she ought not be surprised if she gets blocked, pushed, obstructed whatever. Or at least that's what or how the 'rule' used to be interpreted. Attacker stays in a compact shape, gets to the ball first, and she scores.
But here we are. Welcome to VAR, welcome to non-contact football in the penalty area. And be very careful with the position of your arms too. The thresholds are now non-existent if VAR happens to look at it.
Should possibly have done that on the VAR thread, but no one really wants to talk about that game last night do they?
Yes, here. Maybe only because of the Rapinoe-Trump showdown.
Why the heck did I spell it like that? It's like you have to knit a scarf while putting the ball through the hoop.
Oh yeah, the tea celebration, 
.
Not the classiest thing I've ever seen, but also mildly amusing.
I wouldn't mind a clampdown on excessive celebration. I don't see a whole lot of difference between going into the crowd, waving your shirt about, going completely over the top and/or pass-agg provocation.
.Not the classiest thing I've ever seen, but also mildly amusing.
I wouldn't mind a clampdown on excessive celebration. I don't see a whole lot of difference between going into the crowd, waving your shirt about, going completely over the top and/or pass-agg provocation.
That sounds like such a typical British sport invented in the 19th century to prevent women from excerting themselves, though.
I can't really agree on this. I don't think any American's feels the way you indicate anymore. The 'Americans' were imperialists anyway, the founding fathers were British colonists that became separatists from the rule of the monarchy. They continued with their imperial mindset by obliterating the natives and enslaving Africans. They're not exactly deserving of sympathy around British imperial history.
I don't think she was making a political statement from what she has said about it. I think she just thought the lazy stereotype would be a cool celebration. It isn't particularly offensive I was just making the observation that I can't really think of another nation that would behave like that.
Yeah, but that happened this year, so I doubt such a monumental disturbance of the universal equilibrium will occur again this soon.
Simple facts. Your celebrations the other night represent everything people expect from an American when you win something.
I agree, makes her all the more attractive to me. Those queen bee bitshy types tend to be freaks
The Americans and British here should get a room. Maybe start a pompous cock touching contest.
I thought her celebration was aimed at Piers Morgan?
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Not to derail this thread into Anglo-American post-colonialist history, I’ll keep with saying I get your points, and that I’m neither impressed with nor particularly negative to their celebrations.
Mind you, if Parris had made four-nil from the pen and stormed towards the Noregian fans with hands forming two mock viking horns, I’d be jumping livid and probably still writing long accusational comments on The Guardian web pages.
I want them to win. I'm getting a bit tired of the anti-American sentiment. This team is great, their attack is a joy to watch and that alone is reason enough. Meanwhile, this Dutch side is functional but nothing to get really excited about. There's something to admire about getting the most out of such a team, but I want more from a world champion.
American players and 'experts' complaining that the WWC final is being played on the same day as the Copa and Gold Cup finals. Aly Wagner saying this never would have happened with the men's world cup. No shit. For obvious reasons they wouldn't be playing Copa or Gold Cup during the men's world cup you dumb feck.
I don't get the issue, there's 5 hours between the WWC and Copa and then another 4 hours or something til the Gold Cup.
FIFA want to expand the WC to 32 teams and create a Club World Cup. Expansion is probably a tournament too early I think. Will be some huge scores if they do it, unless it's more European sides. 2027 would make more sense as the overall quality will have improved a lot by then.
A Club World Cup will end up being a bit farcial. The Oceanic Fed side would lose 20-0 at least to Lyon or whatever US side qualifies. African sides wouldn't be near competitive either. Asian sides would do alright. Would rather they just did a Europe v North America. Would be a genuinely good competitive game. Might sound selfish but the level around the World just isn't good enough to justify a CWC in my opinion. Obviously the mens isn't competitive in terms of the top v bottom sides either but they would never end up in any massive scorelines.
A Club World Cup will end up being a bit farcial. The Oceanic Fed side would lose 20-0 at least to Lyon or whatever US side qualifies. African sides wouldn't be near competitive either. Asian sides would do alright. Would rather they just did a Europe v North America. Would be a genuinely good competitive game. Might sound selfish but the level around the World just isn't good enough to justify a CWC in my opinion. Obviously the mens isn't competitive in terms of the top v bottom sides either but they would never end up in any massive scorelines.
FIFA only care about making more money.
It gets better. Morgan now finds the criticism of her tea celebration reflects a clear double standard. Because men are never called out for celebrations, I guess is her belief.
It gets better. Morgan now finds the criticism of her tea celebration reflects a clear double standard. Because men are never called out for celebrations, I guess is her belief.
It’s a tough travelling day, though.
That was my first reaction as well, particularly given the biennial schedule for the Gold Cup and the seemingly random one for the Copa - hard to avoid a clash with something and not a particularly bad one in TV terms.
But then if I look at it in a UEFA context instead, because I know I'd have moaned if they'd scheduled it to clash with the Euros. The USA have two finals - so where are the press, where are the senior FA reps etc going to be?
From my perspective they're all teething troubles really. So I can't blame them for moaning about it now, ready for the next WWC, because it'll be too late to moan about it in 2023 when everyone's schedule is fixed.
It was also weird that she used the example of Simeone's celebration to suggest men get away with it, when there was loads of discussion about that celebration and he got fined for it.
The celebration didn't really bother me, but it's kinda ridiculous that she did an attention grabbing celebration and then is annoyed that it got people's attention.
I think you're right - it all sounds a bit "putting the cart before the horse"' stuff. I can't see the depth of football quality being there to support it in time for 2023.
That said, FIFA will claim it promotes the game, attracts sponsors and acts as a money earning / money redistributing event - and they might be right about that. Group stage could be a real mess though - we had a couple of hopelessly unbalanced groups this time, it could make every group look like that, and remove the element of random fun/luck offered by the best third place thing.
They need to stop trying to mirror the men's set up and let it develop organically.
I thought the 24 team World Cup was an expansion that came too early, so 32 teams is just going to end up with either some farcical results, or a lot of complaining about the allocations for each confederation.
I wouldn't even say 2027 is realistic. 2031 would be my aim for it.
Some secondary competitions are needed, I feel. I have no idea how it'd work, but a sort of "not quite" World Cup in 2021 might go some way towards developing the game in some of the nations that are lagging a bit behind the top sides. Thailand immediately spring to mind as a team ripe for a mid-level competition.
I think Morgan has a point
but isn't making a like for like comparison.
The hopefully-triumphant Dutch should take the piss out of America's cultural heritage & see how they get on.
but isn't making a like for like comparison.
The hopefully-triumphant Dutch should take the piss out of America's cultural heritage & see how they get on.