Has political correctness actually gone mad?

AFC NimbleThumb said:
Of course.

The galas, events, underground meetings that the character often has to infiltrate are dominantly ‘white’ in their make up. The character often has to go under the radar for parts of this which he does by ‘blending in’ before being identified then having to fight his way out of some ridiculous situation.

Idris in these spaces would immediately stand out for the obvious reason; ‘who’s the big black lad in this members only event that is 99.9% white to begin with’.

I just think the discourse for that franchise has been set for decades; [rightly or wrongly] he’s a white man of a certain build & characteristic that is [rightly or wrongly] intrinsic to the way the story is told. ‘007’ is one of many ‘bonds’ so perhaps Idris could be ‘008’ or something; of course I’m overthinking a fictional character but I think a black bond would become so gimmicky it would actually hinder ‘the cause’.
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As a fan of the Ian Fleming novels when I was a kid in the 1980s and the movies the only characteristic of James Bond that I inferred as important was that he was British.
A black Englishman fits the James Bond archetype far more than any white American "of a certain build" would
 
Dante said:
This is Elba's Twitter profile pic (posted only this March).

tsN02qrm_400x400.jpg



He's got good genes. If you put him on a training program, I reckon he could easily be bond for 14 years. Tom Cruise is currently 57, by way of example. All it takes is a good diet, regular excercise and thorough thetan cleansing.
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:lol:
 
afrocentricity said:
I get ya now. This is 007 we are talking though, in the list of unrealistic happenings in each movie that would easily be way down the list....
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I really don’t think it would though, it should but if Idris Elba were Bond I doubt there would be any critique about his Aston Martin that can drive under water or fly him to the moon.

This all spawned from my comments on the Little Mermaid & I’m now in a Bond debate but given that The Little Mermaid is not only about cryptozoological finned woman but also has a signing Jamaican lobster & people are falling over themselves because the main character isn’t white I think we’re as far as ever from having people understand that a James Bond of ‘colour’ could be picked on merit.
2 man midfield said:
I’m just saying you’d hope that little detail could be overlooked. These things can have a little artistic license, and it certainly shouldn’t stop him getting the role if the producers think he’s the man. It’s no less believable than him driving his car off a cliff and walking out without so much as a crease on his suit.
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Agreed but I can’t recall [& I don’t speak for every/anyone here really] there being hashtags & social movements to stop people watching the films because his cars drive parallel to a wall but I would guarantee some backlash if Idris were James Bond.
oneniltothearsenal said:
As a fan of the Ian Fleming novels when I was a kid in the 1980s and the movies the only characteristic of James Bond that I inferred as important was that he was British.
A black Englishman fits the James Bond archetype far more than any white American "of a certain build" would
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You’re preaching to the choir here but I can name 2 Americans & an Australian [all white] that have played the role - Can you name me one Black British [or even non British; in-fact let’s open it up to non-white] person that has?

You’re entering this debate with sensibility so I am sure the British characteristic is the most important to you but it’s quite simply not for the majority of the dominant race in the countries the films are marketed towards.
 
Carolina Red said:
Elba is younger than Craig
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Craig is also now too old for Bond. Bond is a guy in his mid to late 30s in the books and Craig is now 51.

And by the time the 26th Bond movie starts getting shot (probably 2023-24), Elba will be older than Craig is now.
 
MadMike said:
Craig is also now too old for Bond. Bond is a guy in his mid to late 30s in the books and Craig is now 51.

And by the time the 26th Bond movie starts getting shot (probably 2023-24), Elba will be older than Craig is now.
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I know that Craig is now too old for Bond. Both of them are.

That said, how tightly are we going to adhere to who "Bond" is? If we adhere tightly to the author's description and illustration of Bond, then there's really no way Elba could be 007 anyway.
 
Carolina Red said:
That said, how tightly are we going to adhere to who "Bond" is? If we adhere tightly to the author's description and illustration of Bond, then there's really no way Elba could be 007 anyway.
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That ship sailed long ago, even before Craig was announced Bond. Bond as a property has surpassed what Fleming is viewed it as.

Elba does look great for his age though so even with my doubts he could pull off 2 movies.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
That ship sailed long ago, even before Craig was announced Bond. Bond as a property has surpassed what Fleming is viewed it as.

Elba does look great for his age though so even with my doubts he could pull off 2 movies.
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If that's the case, then does the age of Bond matter that much?

I'm admittedly a bit of a purist when it comes to adapting literary characters to the screen, because it keeps things (relatively) simple. When you start changing the character, then how far do you/can you go?
 
Carolina Red said:
I know that Craig is now too old for Bond. Both of them are.

That said, how tightly are we going to adhere to who "Bond" is? If we adhere tightly to the author's description and illustration of Bond, then there's really no way Elba could be 007 anyway.
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To be fair even a loose adherence would rule Elba out. If we're being honest he doesn't really fit the profile of a 30-something, posh, upper-class, privately educated, naval academy white boy. It's a stretch too far, even with Elba's impressive acting abilities.

I do have a curiosity to see what he would make of the role, but I feel they'd have to have make a different kind of Bond, unlike the one portrayed in the books. A more gritty, street-wise, human Bond.
 
Carolina Red said:
If that's the case, then does the age of Bond matter that much?

I'm admittedly a bit of a purist when it comes to adapting literary characters to the screen, because it keeps things (relatively) simple. When you start changing the character, then how far do you/can you go?
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It probably doesn’t in the grand scheme of things given how old Roger Moore was by the end of his reign.

The preference on age isn't to do the film itself though, more if the actor is able to leave a mark on the series.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
The preference on age isn't to do the film itself though, more if the actor is able to leave a mark on the series.
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Gotcha. I would agree with this. I really don’t want to see another one film bond.
MadMike said:
To be fair even a loose adherence would rule Elba out. If we're being honest he doesn't really fit the profile of a 30-something, posh, upper-class, privately educated, naval academy white boy. It's a stretch too far, even with Elba's impressive acting abilities.
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I agree.
I do have a curiosity to see what he would make of the role, but I feel they'd have to have make a different kind of Bond, unlike the one portrayed in the books. A more gritty, street-wise, human Bond.
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Yes, he would be perfect to play a more grizzled Bond character. I really enjoyed his roles like that in Luther and The Wire.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
It probably doesn’t in the grand scheme of things given how old Roger Moore was by the end of his reign.

The preference on age isn't to do the film itself though, more if the actor is able to leave a mark on the series.
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A view to a kill was ridiculous with Moore about 70 covered in liver spots.
 
I remember there being hell up when Craig got the role. He was “too short” or “too blonde”, and people got over that. I’m not sure he necessarily has to be identical to Fleming’s aesthetic design, just as long as he follows all the character criteria.
 


From 2016 but still fairly relevant every time there’s a blowout regarding a black actor casted in a previously white role.
 
FlawlessThaw said:


From 2016 but still fairly relevant every time there’s a blowout regarding a black actor casted in a previously white role.
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Very relevant. Obviously told from a ‘funny’ perspective but so damn true.

“Whitewashing might not be an issue if every time a black person was cast in a lead role people didn’t go apeshit”

This is the exact point the Ariel debacle raised again.

*Whitewashing is wrong btw

If anyone has an interest in hearing the perspective from a minority perspective give this podcast a listen

http://blackmenpodcast.com/

3 young black actors reviewing films with black actors in lead roles - I’d recommend ‘The Help’ & ‘Hidden Figures’ episodes if you’re wondering what the video above means about placing white actors in the foreground of minority led films.

*I don’t agree with everything these guys say at all but they make me look at films from a different perspective.

**Anyone with similar recommendations please let me know, I drive a lot in my job so any podcasts you guys listen to. . .
 
MadMike said:
To be fair even a loose adherence would rule Elba out. If we're being honest he doesn't really fit the profile of a 30-something, posh, upper-class, privately educated, naval academy white boy. It's a stretch too far, even with Elba's impressive acting abilities.

I do have a curiosity to see what he would make of the role, but I feel they'd have to have make a different kind of Bond, unlike the one portrayed in the books. A more gritty, street-wise, human Bond.
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60 years of Bond films and various interpretations of the role would makes this a non issue for me. If you can't accept experiments with roles by that stage when can you. I can understand people feeling protective of a source material if it is the first adaptation, at that stage staying as close to the original vision would be my preference but in subsequent versions exploring the characters from different angles can only add to it. I say that having experienced some weird, wonderful and awful takes on Shakespeare over the years.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Daily Mail readers are definitely utter pricks but aren’t they also anti-authoritarian? Definitely get a whiff of libertarianism from most comment threads.
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They appear to be quite happy with conservatism and tradition when it is authority they approve of (notably organised religion). His Dark Materials is anti authority in general, but also specifically against organised religion. It also celebrates education, knowledge and sexuality which is clearly not going to go down well with this mob. Note the use of the term amoral. I don't think they're libertarian in general: they certainly seem to want to control anyone who does anything they don't approve of...which is everyone pretty much.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Depends how you frame anti-authoritarian, they'd love to impose their world view on everyone else.
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Probably. Although the right wing’s modern obsession with free speech and small government is definitely a little different to the old fashioned conservatism you would typically equate with DM readers.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Probably. Although the right wing’s modern obsession with free speech and small government is definitely a little different to the old fashioned conservatism you would typically equate with DM readers.
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I think it's just a different way of expressing the same thoughts. They care about free speech because they don't like not being able to denigrate those they don't like, they care about small government because they see that as the way to preserve the halcyon past.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
I think it's just a different way of expressing the same thoughts. They care about free speech because they don't like not being able to denigrate those they don't like, they care about small government because they see that as the way to preserve the halcyon past.
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They care about small government because they believe it means lower taxes more like.
 
afrocentricity said:
I get ya now. This is 007 we are talking though, in the list of unrealistic happenings in each movie that would easily be way down the list....
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Isn't 007 a woman now?

“There is a pivotal scene at the start of the film where M says, “Come in 007”, and in walks Lashana who is black, beautiful and a woman,” the source said. “It’s a popcorn-dropping moment. Bond is still Bond but he’s been replaced as 007.”
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afrocentricity said:
Thought that was fan fiction at first. Well, they have my attention.
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I'll wait and see how she does before making any decision as I have on any 007. I go into any show or film series with an open mind.

I have liked Daniel Craig as 007. He's probably my favourite as a rather darker 007 than the ones before him. I hope they continue down the darker path even after DC leaves the series.
 
hobbers said:
Context from the twitter thread.
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Are there any actual sources, though? Twitter is probably the second worst place to get information from, after YouTube comments. I checked a few of the articles linked, and while they had a very clear stance on the issue ("those silly SJWs"), I didn't see any mention of what you're talking about.
 
nimic said:
Are there any actual sources, though? Twitter is probably the second worst place to get information from, after YouTube comments. I checked a few of the articles linked, and while they had a very clear stance on the issue ("those silly SJWs"), I didn't see any mention of what you're talking about.
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Its screen caps with archives of tweets of that guy's about ogling women in changing rooms and trying to organise 12+ topless pool parties with "no parents"
 
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