https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/brexit-party-bus-stuck-brecon-16658483
Couldn't make it up.
Couldn't make it up.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
People's vote seized the opportunity
Im not even sure they will finish second?
What does Ireland do about the backstop now? Yes it's disgraceful how the UK is risking breaking the GFA and Ireland have the right to insist on the backstop and the EU will, honourably, stand by them to the end, let's just agree the UK is 100% in the wrong, I'm not questioning that. As it stands if Ireland tells the EU they will accept the backstop being removed from the Withdrawal Agreement then it is highly likely parliament will vote the deal through and everybody can move on, whilst if they don't it looks like hard brexit and a hard border, or at the very least something unacceptable to many of the Irish.
So, leave aside how horrible the UK is for a moment, and how the UK is solely to blame for it all, what does Ireland do, nothing and accept an imminent hard border, or withdraw the backstop and risk a hard border anyway at some indeterminate time in the future? Officially it's the former, but will Ireland change it's mind?
So, leave aside how horrible the UK is for a moment, and how the UK is solely to blame for it all, what does Ireland do, nothing and accept an imminent hard border, or withdraw the backstop and risk a hard border anyway at some indeterminate time in the future? Officially it's the former, but will Ireland change it's mind?
The EU knows Johnson does not, and despite how many elections he holds will never have the numbers, for no deal so they will not fold.
I didn't ask about the EU, I asked specifically about Ireland.
But to answer your point, No Deal is the status quo. The only way to avoid that is for parliament to have the numbers for an alternative, what do you have in mind that hasn't already been rejected?
Exactly. Political parties need to realise that there needs to be a good reason for people to vote for them whereas traditionally people voted along party lines.
To be honest I struggle to think of a good reason to continue to vote Labour.
But I also cannot think of a reason to vote for any other party.
The main alternative is a vote of no confidence, and it actually looks like the numbers might be there.
I didn't ask what would happen in the UK, I asked what Ireland should do.
But to answer your point, yes there could be an election, although there is no guarantee that the EU would give another extension again, and if it didn't my question would still stand. And if the EU did give an extension there is no guarantee that the new UK parliament would be able to come to agreement on anything anyway, article 50 would be just the same with a new deadline, and again my question would still stand.
I'm predicting stagflation incoming. Might finally wake up some leave voters but it will be too late.
Our economy will go into recession but the rest of the world won't so prices will get higher and so will interest rates but wage growth etc will stagnate. Gonna be fun.
Our economy will go into recession but the rest of the world won't so prices will get higher and so will interest rates but wage growth etc will stagnate. Gonna be fun.
I agree with you, but not in the near future, as I think Boris will borrow shedloads to create a boom with tax cuts and public spending, the shit will come later. Much as Trump is doing, although he just does the tax cuts.
Hopefully you are right. Then trump's economy might tank at the same time and things won't be so bad.
Ireland is the EU, throughout they have negotiated as a whole, they're not about to divide now.
Many tories have constantly said they will bring down the government to avoid no deal. It only requires 10 of them and a lot of the ones that would have backed it are out of government now and a few Tiggers have left the party.
Bojo is gearing up for an election and he is trying ti fight off the Brexit party, he's just set up a ministry for veterans the ultimate Brexit (party) backers.
I don't think tax cuts and borrowings would offset the flight of capital and the shock in the immediate aftermath.
Read my post again, I already said the EU will back Ireland, we know that. Ireland has a parliament of it's own, my question is what should they do?
As for the government being brought down, I'll repeat my reply to Kentonio in case you missed it:
But to answer your point, yes there could be an election, although there is no guarantee that the EU would give another extension again, and if it didn't my question would still stand. And if the EU did give an extension there is no guarantee that the new UK parliament would be able to come to agreement on anything anyway, article 50 would be just the same with a new deadline, and again my question would still stand.
My question was 'What should Ireland do' and your answer seems to be nothing, which is fair enough if they think there is nothing they can do to avoid imminent hard brexit, that would answer the question.
If the VoNC leads to a new election and the Tories win then we leave with no deal. If its Labour or Lab/Lib then we have a new referendum. The EU would extend for that, and if the result comes back as still leave then either Labour fudge some deal with the EU in the time remaining on that extension or we leave with no deal.
Possibly, but profits are profits, and if UK companies forecast big profits from a spending boom, public and private, capital will take advantage of that, and move later when the cycle changes. I could very easily be wrong, but it's not out of the question either.
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Again you've deliberately avoided the question 'What should Ireland do?' for some reason, although I'm guessing you actually think nothing too. Apologies if I'm wrong.
But to answer your point, the Tories winning a general election would not guarantee a no deal at all, there would still be a large number of individual Tory MPs against no deal, and they would still be willing to vote for a deal acceptable to them, ie one with no backstop, so my question for Ireland would still stand, should they help them or not?
I've no idea what Labour would want to do, or more importantly what they might actually achieve with the EU, if they won an election, and I don't believe anyone else does either, so I'm sorry I can't comment on that.
My answer was clear, Ireland will continue to maintain the European stance which is one. They negotiate and make decisions at European level not at invidiual parliament level.
There isn't a credible prospect of no deal as far as the current UK parliament is concerned so the EU will not blink.
As far as the extensions are concerned EU will continue to give them in perpetuity because it is in their interest for UK to stay or leave with an agreement.
I still don't accept that Ireland has no parliament or free will of it's own I'm afraid, but no matter, your answer is do nothing different, which is fair enough, and if there is no hard brexit you will be proved correct. Hopefully hard brexit won't affect me too much personally, but I feel for those it will.
I actually wasn't joining in on the Ireland thing at all, but honestly what Ireland should do is stand by their current position and then if the UK leave with no deal then erect the necessary border controls that they have been forced into. Ireland can't allow themselves to be blackmailed by Britain, and they have the weight of the EU behind them. To capitulate now would be foolish and hugely damaging.
A Tory win under this leadership would pretty much guarantee a no deal, because no deal is still the default position. As you said, the numbers aren't there for the May deal, and Boris is insisting he won't renegotiate without the Irish backstop being removed, which the EU won't do. All that is left is no deal.
I fail to see how the UK functions under a no deal scenario.
Thanks, a full and realistic answer.
Yeah, that's the shit I was afraid of, I was hoping for something different!
Ireland will form a border in the Irish sea and also on the land border there will have to be checks that will utterly decimate cross border trade and travel.
They will blame the UK (rightly so) but they will do it because they have to.
Ireland will demand the backstop remains. Therefore we are heading for GE and likely no deal. Ireland will not be bullied by English politicians, it's now a point of principal. The fact England (and I say this purposely) feel they can bully Ireland is just a symptom of England's empire heritage which has got them into this bloody mess in the first place.
Thanks. I think most English people would say they have no interest in the empire whatsoever in 2019 so I don't get 'bullying', but the empire did obviously create the current situation so I understand you feeling that way.
Today Boris insists on removing the backstop. Tomorrow Boris insists on Northern Ireland remaining in the CU and SM.
The day after that...
The day after that...
Wales voted for Brexit too and now Bojo has landed the Tories are leading the polls there.
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Anyone else starting to get the ominous feeling that shits about to hit the fan?
In a way Boris might be better for the remain cause because his blatant bullshit is causing friction and stronger opposition. He's touring the country spouting bullshit and generally pissing people off.
In a way Boris might be better for the remain cause because his blatant bullshit is causing friction and stronger opposition. He's touring the country spouting bullshit and generally pissing people off.
I'd say those are blatant liars, then. Yearning for the good ol' times of the Empire has been and is one the main drivers for the leave crowd.
Oh their not a polling company. They just retweet or post finding from recent polls.
Scotland, by and large, has the same feeling about England. Without derailing the topic, theres a very real sense of bullying when it comes to UK politics.
"Taking back control", "Sovereignty, "Commonwealth", just to name a few of the frequently used terms. But yeah, laugh on...
Not really. Who is he pissing off except for folks that already hate him? He's got a 6 point boost in the polls in Wales. It's all fluff at the moment.
Only one of those has connotations of the Empire really and its a pretty logical step to move towards closer cooperation and trade with commonwealth nations if we leave the EU.
That said, I do feel that some on the right are guilty of what you say, especially among the less intelligent factions.
Oh I will. It’s a nonsensical statement borne of pure ignorance and gullibility. Not at all surprising mind