Nope because of historical and power dynamics at play.
"Blackface" Discussion
- Thread starter Mister_Stubbs
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Nope because of historical and power dynamics at play.
again, no one is saying that every person blacking up is racist.
no one is saying Antoine Griezman is racist because he blacked up once.
but that doesn't mean the act itself isn't racist. you don't have to be a racist to perform a racist act.
what you can do is acknowledge the sensitivity around the issue, reflect upon it, try and understand why it could be conveyed as insensitive, learn from it, and move on. oh and don't do it again.
Last edited:
Neither would his supporters
I agree. He's always looked very transparent, insincere and weasley to me.
This is probably the best answer to that question
If someone is willing to become an out and out racist because blackface has been deemed offensive, they probably were pretty racist to begin with.
This is the correct answer. Do it once in ignorance and apologizing doesn't make you racist. Doing it again after being told it's racist, does make you racist.
With Trudeau it's mostly funny because of his image of being progressive while not actually being very progressive. The water cartons thing is still more funny than this though.
Alright guys, lighten up (pun unintended). Here's a funny meme to make it all better...
PS: If I end up getting thread banned for this, I want it to be on record that I think it was totally worth it.
PS: If I end up getting thread banned for this, I want it to be on record that I think it was totally worth it.
My thoughts on this are that people have to stop bigging up politicians to be something they aren't. It seems like another good reminder that it's insane how the level of political discourse has put them into a position where they're elevated to a status far above what they should be. Happens on both the right and left.
Just my thoughts but certainly some of the high level politicians we have fall far below a standard we expect of them and in general far below the standard displayed 30 - 40 years ago. Times change certainly but shouldn't we expect things to get better not worse?
In my opinion yes but we seem to different standards for politicians these days. For a start, we seem to only elect think they're good if they have a strong media personality. I think that's part of the problem - that we don't really care how well they govern us as much as how it appears they govern us.
I mean if you look at post-1990 in both the US and UK we've seen Clinton, Blair, Bush, Obama, Cameron, Trump, Johnson (although not elected). All personality-first types.
What's the chance of a stuffy, boring, work-first John Major or Gordon Brown-esque type getting into office anytime soon? Doesn't seem too high.
I don't personally believe this. I think politicians are simply under a lot more scrutiny now than they were 30-40 years ago and with phone cameras and social media practically ubiquitous, more stuff comes up.
My genuine thoughts on this, beyond my genious memes, is that we also need to grasp the concept of forgiving people when sincere apology is offered. There's no doubt in my mind that blackfacing in 2001, in a multicultural society like Canada, by a 29 -year-old was an inexcusable racist act. But owning up to mistakes and reforming is part of life. Not defending the act, but defending one's chance to reform.
I don't much follow Canadian politics to have a strong opinion on Trudeau. At a superficial level at least he seems like a guy fighting for inclusivity, diversity and equality as far as social policies go. If (big if) that impression holds up under scrutiny and with an apology offered I think it's reasonable to say "fair enough".
Few things are quite as toxic as an unforgiving attitude and crucifying someone for past mistakes even when they own up to them and try to correct them. Doubly so when it's part of a politically motivated character assassination.
We had to use some brown makeup for a play at school, I would have been around 13/14.
tbh, I didn't think anything of it in this context. There were 3 of us who needed to do it and we were all more worried about the teacher of dubious sexual preference putting it on for us than the thought it might be offensive to anyone.
tbh, I didn't think anything of it in this context. There were 3 of us who needed to do it and we were all more worried about the teacher of dubious sexual preference putting it on for us than the thought it might be offensive to anyone.
You're forgetting someone aren't you? Likes to perform the robot dance at events... Maybe that was enough personality to leave her out of that group?
Last edited:
I don't disagree that they are in public view to a greater extent but Ministers and MPs actually used to resign when caught out in a lie, either from cabinet or for example caught fiddling their expenses. Heseltine who resigned over the Westland Affair. Look at how many lies Johnson has been caught in. I think that it is different not just easier to see.
I agree with everything you say, to the cost of trust in our politicians - not that I guess that's ever been in full supply.
Ah, the old ‘black friends’ justification
, was wondering when in the thread this would rear its ugly head. And yeah, poor Antoine griezmann for engaging in an act that has a historically racist context to it, he should’ve known how these sensitive lefties would react.
Last edited:
I was born and raised in Canada (class of 74). I'm not sure when the first time I saw blackface was but I know I was very young and even then I knew it was wrong.
Lads...Colin blacked up when he was younger. We've got him.
I'm taking this to the mod forum to discuss his removal.
So what about all these people who dress up as X-Men? Haven't mutants been unfairly persecuted throughout history? Is mutants an acceptable term anymore?
Ah, the old ‘black friends’ justification
It's interesting. Growing up where I live there was no historical black face context. I honestly never knew much about it or what it signifies in the United States up on till recently . I can't speak for France but one must remember that we aren't all from the USA or actively know about there history. What is bad context for them is sometimes acceptable in other places around the world as it has no meaning.
That's fine tbh but once you learn the historical context at that point you simply don't do it again.
The origination of minstrels in the USA is interesting. There is certainly an element of white people jealousy of 'cool' black culture that has persisted throughout. But mostly it consisted of highly offensive lampooning of POC to entertain. It's really strange that it was popular enough in England to actually become a long-running TV show on the BBC though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show
Ah, the old ‘black friends’ justification
No, for Europeans bar UK (because conections with US) has no historical racist context. We are recently learning that blackfacing is racist
Really?
I'm a young non white person. If I say ya'll are free to be racist, does it make it okay? Avoid using this sort of logic. Doesn't help. Call people out for their shitty views without telling them "you're X you wont understand"
Really
why is that so hard to believe?
60 years ago I used to dress up in a cowboy outfit and pretend to shoot ' Red Indians '.
Makes me a Racist ??
Damn....If only someone had told me that 60 years later the answer would be ' Yes ' then I might not have done it.
Makes me a Racist ??
Damn....If only someone had told me that 60 years later the answer would be ' Yes ' then I might not have done it.
That blackfacing is racist? is absolutely not hard to belive. Is completely racist if you link it to Minstrel. But as I and most of europeans we didn't know that link,it wasnt racist. In what concerns Spain, now we know that offends people and act accordingly. Historically the guy blackfacing in christmas was a revered character and one of the 3 and equaly most important characters in the parade and was not depicted as dumb, poor but as wise man, generous and intelligent. With that characteristics, you can't feel that blackfacing was considered racists. Also, In Spain, seeing a black citizen in the 80 and 90 was really really rear and maybe in big cities than Madrid and Barcelona therefore you couldn't find people to depict the character. Now, immigration changed that and we can progress and respect and not offend. Is transitioning to the right way with the new knowledge we have
I was more asking why is it hard to believe that someone just realises that black face is racists up on till recently. I am from a country that is 90 percent african decent. Had no clue about minstrel and Jim crow and all of that. Black people from the united states have a very different history of racial issues than others. I think we have the same thoughts on this. We are learning about it for the first time. The world doesnt revolve around the USA and UK so its quite understandable for some people to have not known that black face is offensive or know why it is offensive.
Oh I see
Is ok. for americans and english the world is anglocentric and is what it is. But I can understand the outrage on a matter that is racism and hurts sensibilities. I express my point of view that blackfacing is a new phenomena (I am sure that I ask 90% of my friends and still don't have a clue and 100% don't know anything about minstrel representations) and it seems still hard to understand for people that knew since always, but had a respectful exchange of point of view some pages ago. I discover it in this thread actually, though the word was in the street already, I didn't know the origin
At the political level, it may be, but there are still many people who do not know it.
Griezmann, Ramos or Iniesta painting their faces was completely overlooked in the press. It has not created any kind of social alarm/debate and I doubt that it will do in the near future.
Even in some towns like Alcoy they reacted very quickly to defend the party.
I think they(the blacks) have to move much further socially until people take blackface seriously and this coming from Anglo-Saxon countries, it is taken as a modern extension of the black legend and will be replied and underestimated by politicians
Who is ‘we’? I’ve known about the history for a long while now.
we are you from?
I agree that is more about PC that people that actually know. but is increasing on knowledge and the feeling still is not racist but we try not to offend
The UK
Then read the sentence that you quoted
Basically anglocentrism
Also, I am sure there are people here and there that knows but is not common
And yes, maybe I am assuming too much. I am talking more specific on my closer circle. Starting for me, then family friends, my town, my country and then Europe. The bigger the circle gets the least assumption I should do
Hard to believe this thread went further than "Yes, blackface is racist". What's next, "was owning slaves racist?".
Can I just add as well that it’s fine to not know that it’s racist but once its racist context has been explained to you and you are still trying to justify doing it, THAT is the problem