Climate Change | UN Report: Code Red for humanity
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Why? The evidence is that things are accelerating and we are doing feck all about it. Or far far too little, far far too late.
We are witnessing a mass extinction. That's just reality, there's no optimistic spin on it, we're causing large parts of it, it's happening, it's significant. You might not remotely care about other organisms but expecting other people to just skip along happily is fecking stupid.
When you're in a crisis, you need people who take crises seriously. Bumbling into it aimlessly doesn't make it better. Trying to tackle it is painful and sad and all sorts of other bad things. Yes there's lots of great things in the world. Closing your eyes to the bad things is not just dangerous but outrageously selfish, and taken to its extreme could obviously threaten our species too.
And that's ultimately it. There's really not much to be done now. Obviously as a country we should work towards being fully renewable, (which will have the added effect of boosting the economy if we can do it before everyone else), but China and India aren't going anywhere. Africa is a billion people sitting on the sidelines...
The best we can do is get our own house in order.
It's not even the governments and leaders that irritate me... Why am I still buying food in plastic boxes and bags? Why are half of them still not recyclable? It's the people at the bottom letting the side down, just as much as it is the people at the top.
Whatever about climate change deniers, the worst are those who say "well yeah, sure, I don't deny it has something to do with us but like.. the earth is changing so we don't know how much, so why do anything?"
Why not do anything? Even if our impact is minimal, the earth is clearly changing, we're clearly heading towards a mass extinction event, so why not at least attempt to do something about it?
I think at this stage it's clear we're doomed, or the poorer countries are, at least. Africa and most of middle Asia and South America will be wastelands by 2100 at the latest - the US will probably migrate most of their citizens to Canada and the North Pole and be fine. Ireland, the UK and Scandanavian countries will likely be completely overwhelmed by refugees from Southern Europe and Africa. Fun times.
Why not do anything? Even if our impact is minimal, the earth is clearly changing, we're clearly heading towards a mass extinction event, so why not at least attempt to do something about it?
I think at this stage it's clear we're doomed, or the poorer countries are, at least. Africa and most of middle Asia and South America will be wastelands by 2100 at the latest - the US will probably migrate most of their citizens to Canada and the North Pole and be fine. Ireland, the UK and Scandanavian countries will likely be completely overwhelmed by refugees from Southern Europe and Africa. Fun times.
Am I allowed to agree completely with Greta but still find her irritating?
Why is she irritating?
Not the beginning. We are well into one and the current rate is phenomonally high. Probably the highest rate since the meteor strike that caused the Cretacious-Tertiary extinction event.
She is saying thing people either don't want to hear or don't want to think about too much.
Also being young and female with a strident opinion tends to piss men off.
I reckon we shouldnt wait till we are at the brink of extinction before doing anything about it
There is nothing to be optimistic about. She is not a doom mongerer, we are heading towards a catastrophe. The effects of climate change arent being felt in first world countries, but the third world is in dire starits. Recently a women in Delhi who hasnt smoked her whole life was diagnosed with lung cancer which was attributed to the toxic air in Delhi. Meanwhile countries like the US instead of trying to curb pollution are accelearting. The establishment needs to wake the feck up and smell the coffee.
Of course. However, if your entire schtick is we're destroying the planet and we need to change drastically before it's too late, you are probably going to have to be a bit irritating like.
Yes. It’s not even controversial and we are not at the beginning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
Except she's not an idiot. Anyone who has seen her interviews can clearly see she's mature beyond her years. The enivironment in which she has grown up is very different compared to yesteryear. Children are exposed to the world at a very young age because of the internet. Its not her parents who have failed her, its society. She is fighting for her future. Imagine how cities like Delhi would be like in 30+ years.
Waiting for scientists to come up with a solution isnt going to work. We dont have the time instead the populace needs to wake up and vote in politicians like Bernie Sanders who actually believe in climate change and are commited towards working for a solution.
So much of the criticism I've seen directed at her has been heavily informed by this. Some very insecure men don't seem to like the idea that a teenage girl might have a better grasp of something than they do, or can have an impact on the world as a result. The idea that a kid by default can't know much is a refuge for people who already know that most adults know more than them too.
After all, dismissing her an idiot kid is so much easier than actually engaging with the science she is directing them towards.
She seems to ooze sanctimony like the annoying, know-it-all kid at school.
Plus, living in India where many kids don't have food, I found her 'stolen dreams and childhood' spiel grating hyperbole (especially unnecessary when the rest of her points were on point and grounded in science).
But I guess I must be a sexist.
Doesn’t really matter if you like her or not. A better question is, why does it need a teenaged girl to keep the most important issue in the world in the headlines?
Yes I thought that comment showed a striking lack of perspective but she's a teenage icon - that's an inevitable consequence. You would be the same. The important thing is that flaw shouldn't hinder her assessment on the societal challenges, just her own.
Of course her entire life is likely to be better than many people in war torn countries now, and victims of various atrocities in the past. Her lost childhood is incredibly insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Scandinavia in 100 years time will be easier to live in than many parts of the world are now.
It's not a productive attitude to stop there and shrug your shoulders and say just suck it up. Syria in 100 years' time will likely be in an even worse place. It'd be better to try and mitigate it rather than say "been there, done that (almost)".
I guess I'd rather a crusty old scientist with a couple of decades experience making the point. But they did and were ignored. I'll take a win where I can get it
Of course, it doesn't.
I think most people, and especially those in power, simply cannot look beyond their own self-interest. For all the progress humanity's made we still can't feed everyone. No idea how we're going to tackle an even more complex problem like climate change.
I though she was very impressive. And people who are already in a state of poverty will be most affected by climate change so framing this as misplaced priorities is deeply misguided.
That people are irritated by her passion is a huge part of the problem.
That's so true. Nobody listened when the distinguished professors and scientists were screaming. Now a teenager has found a way to activate millions of young people and also re-activate the old Green movement and everybody is bending over to find flaws with her, attack her because of her youth, her privilege, whatever. But what she is talking about is real and threatening every aspect of civil society. But yeah, capitalism and free market. I guess. Also haha she's a girl.
Very good question.
I think Yes Minister may have had the answer.
Sir Richard Wharton: In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
Sir Richard Wharton: In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we *can* do.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now
I hope she's still fighting the fight in a year or two as this movement needs real momentum. I get why people don't like her but we need someone and a young girl made it a story.
And to be fair it should be the youth, if they can be shown they have power to demand action then hopefully we'll see a real generational push
That, and she even said "I’m one of the lucky ones", which I’m pretty sure was meant to acknowledge that she’s on the top of the pyramid, along with the rest of us enjoying the securities of the west.
People are going out of their way to be annoyed. Fact is, Greta is actually showing a reaction that’s very sane considering what we’re facing... and yet people want to label it hysteria.
It’s fecking maddening to me.
I read an article on theliberal.ie about her yesterday (I know, why am I reading that shit). They were calling her unstable, saying that the crowd sat in silence and didn't applaud her, which wasn't true. It said she was almost screaming. She wasn't, though she was clearly angry.
This is a 16 year old kid, talking about the biggest challenge facing mankind in our lifetimes and the agenda by certain areas of the media against her is disgusting. It's quite obvious no one can find any scientific evidence to refute her claims, so they pile on making her out to be some maniac going around shouting and screaming.
What was worse then, was the comments. Loads of grown men and women ridiculing, mocking and laughing at this girl. A girl who, even if you don't believe the science is getting a message out there that we should look after the planet. There was a poll was done shortly after on the liberal's facebook page and 34% of people who voted don't believe that humans are impacting climate change. The comments and the poll made me really sad and fearful for the future. Not long ago I thought that this was a small minority of rednecks in the south of the USA that were denying that humans were impacting climate change. It was easy to dismiss them.
This crisis really isn't going to be solved in time.
This is a 16 year old kid, talking about the biggest challenge facing mankind in our lifetimes and the agenda by certain areas of the media against her is disgusting. It's quite obvious no one can find any scientific evidence to refute her claims, so they pile on making her out to be some maniac going around shouting and screaming.
What was worse then, was the comments. Loads of grown men and women ridiculing, mocking and laughing at this girl. A girl who, even if you don't believe the science is getting a message out there that we should look after the planet. There was a poll was done shortly after on the liberal's facebook page and 34% of people who voted don't believe that humans are impacting climate change. The comments and the poll made me really sad and fearful for the future. Not long ago I thought that this was a small minority of rednecks in the south of the USA that were denying that humans were impacting climate change. It was easy to dismiss them.
This crisis really isn't going to be solved in time.
An activist-adult wouldn't ever give this much attention, tbf. And politicians don't care, while businessmen want the status quo to continue.
We've been at the beginning of one for the last 20 years. At least.
I remember being told in school that Amsterdam would be under water by now. No doubt action needs to be taken but the seriousness has always been hugely exaggerated by a variety of pressure groups, and are we really now going down the road of allowing Greta Thurnberg, a child, to set government policy?
No. But we should be allowing her (and others) to make sure the government DOES have a policy.
She can mentally break down infront of TV all she wants. Nothing is going to change dramatically because you'd have to abandon capitalism for real changes and it's not going to happen. Going from fossil fuel cars to 2.2 ton electric cars with 500 kg batteries which require enormous ressources to produce as well as dispose changes next to nothing.
Only when your private consumption is state controlled and you are not allowed to have or do certain things then we are starting to talk.
We are on a football forum so let's start with that. Anyone match going? Away games especially? Why? How do you get there?
Watching all 50 games a season and talking about football before and after matches for hours on the Internet? Where does all the electricity come from?
Collecting shirts from players? They are all produced in and shipped from 3rd world countries.
Etc.
No one is willing to compromise and give up his privileges. Only when it doesn't concern him personally.
Everything from renewables is a pipe dream. It's only September and there is no more sun shining here in Germany and it will stay so until about May next year.
Only when your private consumption is state controlled and you are not allowed to have or do certain things then we are starting to talk.
We are on a football forum so let's start with that. Anyone match going? Away games especially? Why? How do you get there?
Watching all 50 games a season and talking about football before and after matches for hours on the Internet? Where does all the electricity come from?
Collecting shirts from players? They are all produced in and shipped from 3rd world countries.
Etc.
No one is willing to compromise and give up his privileges. Only when it doesn't concern him personally.
Everything from renewables is a pipe dream. It's only September and there is no more sun shining here in Germany and it will stay so until about May next year.
I never heard about them moving Germany to the arctic. Funny how these things pass you by.
You also never heard of winter coming, I assume.
Weather camera in Berlin right now in the middle of September, afternoon:
https://www.wetter.com/hd-live-webc...erplatz-fernsehturm/5763bb96cebfc038198b457e/
Weather prediction:
Tip: It ain't getting better in November, December, January, February, March ...
Good luck with solar energy.
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So. She is wrong because of her age ?
A UN report compiled by the absolute top minds in their respective fields states: That natures dangerous decline is unprecedented and that species extinction rates are accelerating. If you want to name it mass extinction which is a broad term, is really down to how you define the it.
Some key points from the report.
- 8 million: total estimated number of animal and plant species on Earth (including 5.5 million insect species)
- Tens to hundreds of times: the extent to which the current rate of global species extinction is higher compared to average over the last 10 million years, and the rate is accelerating
- Up to 1 million: species threatened with extinction, many within decades
- >500,000 (+/-9%): share of the world’s estimated 5.9 million terrestrial species with insufficient habitat for long term survival without habitat restoration
- >40%: amphibian species threatened with extinction
- Almost 33%: reef forming corals, sharks and shark relatives, and >33% marine mammals threatened with extinction
- 25%: average proportion of species threatened with extinction across terrestrial, freshwater and marine vertebrate, invertebrate and plant groups that have been studied in sufficient detail
- At least 680: vertebrate species driven to extinction by human actions since the 16th century
- +/-10%: tentative estimate of proportion of insect species threatened with extinction
- >20%: decline in average abundance of native species in most major terrestrial biomes, mostly since 1900
+/-560 (+/-10%): domesticated breeds of mammals were extinct by 2016, with at least 1,000 more threatened - 3.5%: domesticated breed of birds extinct by 2016
- 70%: increase since 1970 in numbers of invasive alien species across 21 countries with detailed records
- 30%: reduction in global terrestrial habitat integrity caused by habitat loss and deterioration
- 47%: proportion of terrestrial flightless mammals and 23% of threatened birds whose distributions may have been negatively impacted by climate change already
- >6: species of ungulate (hoofed mammals) would likely be extinct or surviving only in captivity today without conservation measures
- Three-quarters of the land-based environment and about 66% of the marine environment have been significantly altered by human actions. On average these trends have been less severe or avoided in areas held or managed by Indigenous Peoples and Local Communities.
- More than a third of the world’s land surface and nearly 75% of freshwater resources are now devoted to crop or livestock production.
Firstly. I am extremely concerned about the effects of Man Made Climate Change.
And if it takes Greta Thunberg to bring it to everyone's attention then I am a fan of hers.
Secondly. For a large number of species then yes absolutely they are either at the beginning or in many cases at the end of mass extinction.
And the reason for that. Human greed. We think and act as if this planet was here for us alone and to hell with anything else.
It is the human population that has brought this climate emergency on itself and it is the human population that will have to deal with the consequences.
Let's not make our kids suffer emotionally.....
It is going to be much more than their emotions that are going to suffer.
And I am delighted to see that they are already doing the right things.
Challenging the world leaders to do much more than spout more hot air.
What's the point of making her feel so scared that she has to cry and say stuff like they ruined her childhood, I mean really why give such responsibilities to a kid, and I've seen with war the power of using kids to your agenda and I think it's unethical.