When one of your children graduates in journalism, does an assignment in Saudi , tweets about human rights in Saudi and then gets mysteriously arrested, 1000 lashes and eight years in prison without a trial, dont start crying outside Old Trafford because your protests fall on deaf ears.
Saudi sports minister gives update on buying club from Glazers
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
When one of your children graduates in journalism, does an assignment in Saudi , tweets about human rights in Saudi and then gets mysteriously arrested, 1000 lashes and eight years in prison without a trial, dont start crying outside Old Trafford because your protests fall on deaf ears.
Bore off mate. How many people have we had killed over the years. America, with our help, have totally destabilised an already troubled area in the world and slaughtered thousands.
Tennis fans aren't boycotting the sport. Boxing fans aren't judging by last night either.
The world is a dirty place. Not just the Saudis.
If my memory serves me correctly (for once), IBM helped Hitler. Not sure they are that much better.
The difference being that we are not talking about the US or the UK purchasing United. And as far as I know, no boxer, wrestler or tennis man/woman is currently owned by the House of Saud.
From the posts I remember read of yours you seemed extremely pro-Saudi ownership...
Do the UK or US govt own the club?
And staging tennis and boxing matches is very different to owning a club isn't it.
Perhaps we should have applied the same logic to Hitler and let him carry on invading countries all over Europe and exterminating Jews after all we have killed many over the years so who were we to interfere?
Yes the world is a dirty place and the first responsibility of Government is to protect its own people before taking the moral high ground.
This is why you and I have a secure sleep every night and don't have to take turns guarding the house from foreign invaders. The difference between us and the Saudis is despite the fact that we are not perfect, our system is based on protecting its own citizens and having a judicial system that applies equally to all. The Saudis lock their own citizens up without trial.
Fans are not boycotting the tennis, boxing and no one on this forum has suggested that they do but that does not mean that you can not express your disapproval and preference to not have them as an owner!
It’s 100% different. We are not selling our club to the UK government of 1847.
I think this is bound to happen sadly. But as supporters we don't have to like it.
So according to you the problem and the separation between Saudi Arabia and the western culture is caused by people who speak out against atrocities and express a moral stance? If you can't refute the problems poses by people then it's not a fair sided debate? That's a bit fickle.
We already have Saudi money running through the club. Saudi Telecom and we've just signed another deal with a Chinese firm of which the Saudis own a considerable chunk of.
You best go and support another club then haven't you? Surely one penny of Saudi money is too much????
People need to get real. There aren't many Bill Gates type people in the world. Some of the richest families in the world aren't squeaky clean. Abramovich n the Sheikh certainly aren't.
I wouldn’t want us to be owned by Abramovich or the Sheikh either!
The world is full of oppression and injustice and so your contrubution to the world is forget trying to take a stand and make the world a better place to live in as long as we are top of the league and winning trophies who cares!
We opened ourselves up to this the day we became a PLC. Inevitable.
I would rather we don't have a sugar daddy, no matter where he is from. I'd like us to do things the proper way. The sad thing is we generate enough revenue to challenge at the top and be successful, all we need is An owner who would let us spend our own money.
Yeah everybody knows we have sponsors from everywhere. That's not news. But Saudi govt doesn't own the club. And you're going on making comparison to the UK and US governments who don't own the club either... making false equivalences here. And we're not talking about just a "family" taking over the club... it's a whole government here.
Since you're the one who's so desperate for this Saudi ownership maybe YOU should support another club where money is all that matters.
True but it doesn’t mean that I have to say I want it to happen.
I am expressing my preference for this not to happen. If it does happen and everyone just gives it their approval then they will not be under pressure to change.
The only silver lining if this happens is that the spotlight will be on them if fans show their disapproval of their human rights record at matches with a world audience.
This pressure might just help them to change their attitude or release political prisoners locked up without trial.
But if everyone just has your attitude “feck everyone as long as we win trophies” then an opportunity to improve this world a little bit will be missed.
It could be your child or anyone elses who gets wrongfully arrested and imprisoned without trial on some trip or something!
Money does matter though. £500m debts. Glazer leaches. Crumbling stadium.
I swear the caf have had this argument a million times already. Mental.
I guess money is ALL that matters to people like you doesn't matter where it comes from. That's on you.
I'm honoured that you remembered my posts. I hardly remember any posters post. But would be great to read again what made you think I'm pro Saudi. I'm just as interested to know what pro Saudi even means?
Knee this thread would be depressing when I opened it. It didn't disappoint. Some would sell their mothers so Man Utd can be running trophies.
No of course the atrocities are to be condemned, what I’m saying is that simply shouting and wagging your finger at them isn’t going to change anything.
Integration into western culture will only help the situation over there.
Look at the boxing last night, the more we integrate the more willing they will be to conform to modern standards and human rights.
Recently the Saudi’s have allowed women to attend cinema, they’ve had music venues which women can attend and I believe they are allowed to drive.
The above sounds crazy normal to us but they are big big changes and it’s directly influenced by western culture.
To integrate and influence rather than shout and condemn with every word is the way forward.
Some would sell their mothers just so a football team doesn't have saudis as owners.
The Glazers would sell to the Devil, if they got the right money. We as ordinary fans can't do anything about it, unless of course we have the money to buy. It's up to the individual if they no longer want to support the club if the Saudi's or whoever, buy.
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Pointing out and speaking out against atrocities isn't "shouting" and "condemning".
Saudis may have allowed women in to cinemas and to drive but there are still activists in jail and on trial for protesting human rights. You can look that up. Speaking out for these people isn't shouting and condemning.
How is a boxing match integrating? It's only a money making scheme - how exactly does it influence anything?
If the Saudis want to financially benefit from the west then they have to listen and actually act in a meaningful instead of getting offended when their atrocities are pointed out and dismissing them as "shouting" and "condemning".
I knew you were struggling with this debate when you responded with “Bore Off” to one of the posts.
I think you should re-examine your post and try again..
I respect you as a poster but that’s pretty dumb, if anything it’s for concern for your mother that you’d be against having anything to do with these people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loujain_al-Hathloul
On a lighter note....
Despite what they say, sarcasm is the highest form of wit and this is sarcasm at its very best.
It was a response to a poster who felt the need to bring 'Mothers' into a discussion revolving around a football club. Which I found pretty strange.
I would never have anything to do with anyone that suppresses human rights. But in this particular case with the saudis I'm just a customer that tends to pay £££s to support my so called club. We're customers of the the club and because of the vast number of customers we have, the Glazers bought us via a LBO.
I have always preferred a fan ownership model that is already well established at top clubs around Europe, but that style of ownership isn't forthcoming anytime soon. And I can understand why people would want a Saudi ownership due to the vast resources they have at their disposal which would potentially see the club become dominant, not just in England but also Europe. Most people around the world watch football as a release from everyday stressful situations and care very little about who the owners are.
And i also respect people who are strongly opposed to such a takeover on the grounds of morality. But if I had to choose between relegation or the Saudis, then I choose the Saudis, because I love united and would never want to see the club relegated.
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The thought of cameras cutting to a smiling MBS in the United stand every other week is depressing.
Well your proving my point exactly by being argumentative instead of looking at the issue objectively with a balanced view.
The boxing helps on a global scale, Saudi is in those moments being televised around the world and from what I hear they are really promoting Saudi boxing in the country.
Any benefit they are aiming to gain from this publicity is directly diminished when further atrocities occur. Surely you can see that argument?
Oil money will weaken through duel fuel and electric cars, now is the time to integrate and use that integration to coerce them into more western cultures and more acceptable human rights.
We are a PLC. Have been for five years. I own shares. Just go buy some if you want some influence.
It’s quite clearly a figure of speech though, and not a completely unapt one considering we’ve had posters outright say that they don’t care about being associated with the saudis and their crimes as long as the club is successful.
Even if we were successful under Saudi ownership it would all feel incresingly hollow. Having to watch as the manager be forced to answer for every crime comitted by the owners and the club being held in association with human rights violations would kill any joy from whatever success we’d see.
And then, when winning trophies start to become a routine thing and the shine starts coming off, that’ll be what we’re left with.
Wherever you are you’ll never be content in football, just look at City fans currently. You can’t buy eternal happiness. Premier league winners two years in a row yet a little bit of adversity and they crumble.
That’s all assuming a takeover would actually make us the best in the land again of course. I don’t think that’s a given at all, the work that the Qataris have done in PSG doesn’t impress me much.
Very much doubt he'd attend many games if any. The Sheikh only been to a handful in nearly 10 years.
All I want to see right now is a DoF type figure appointed to run the football side. That for me would be better than any signing we can make right now and would make me alot more optimistic for the longterm. I understand your concerns too, but under our current CEO we don't seem to be learning from our mistakes and I fear we're gonna repeat our mistakes from previous years.
Maybe the Saudis are trying to turn a corner like the British supposedly did all those years ago?
Ok. Thanks for that.
buying shares does not give you influence unless you buy a lot of shares (51% ideally). Only a small portion of United is traded. This was simply a cash raising exercise by the Glazers a few years back. We are mostly still privately owned.
Yes, your right.