If he was genuinely (albeit mistakenly) under the impression at the time that it was consensual - which neither you or I know, then this isn't physically possible.
Kobe Bryant - What’s his legacy?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
If he was genuinely (albeit mistakenly) under the impression at the time that it was consensual - which neither you or I know, then this isn't physically possible.
What in the hyperbole is this? & why is this issue only now so important after his passing?
This information has been readily available for almost 20 years.
Just heard a couple people at work discussing the Armenian genocide.
Why is this issue so important now? This information has been readily available for decades. The international criminal court didnt convict the people involved so it's pretty arrogant to act like internet posters know better. None of us were there. How can we say what really happened?
Why is this issue so important now? This information has been readily available for decades. The international criminal court didnt convict the people involved so it's pretty arrogant to act like internet posters know better. None of us were there. How can we say what really happened?
I think you will find that the Armenians consented as the Ottoman Empire hasn't been convicted. Apparently they are sure that they had consent because when they asked the Armenians if they could come on their face they said no (or probably made no response as they had already been killed).
Okay then, I'll alter that part. Instead he should have considered it while he was behaving in such a way that caused him to miss the fact that the person he was having sex with didn't want to have sex with him. After all, he felt the need to apologize to the victim for that behavior "and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year." If he felt the subsequent events were a consequence of his own behavior, I won't argue.
It's not suddenly important. As you say, everyone has been aware of this for years and he has been criticized for it over the years too. It was always important, it just wasn't always newsworthy.
It is suddenly newsworthy though as he has just died in a plane crash, leading people to assess his life and legacy, of which this is a large part. So it naturally gets mentioned again.
Comparing genocide with a man who's case was dismissed
I've learned that some of you really really hate Kobe. Usually have a lot of time for your posts but this just sickening.
For the record you've all made it perfectly clear that you´think he's guilty. I can accept that. Acting as if he was convicted just because you don't like the fact that he wasn't, is in my eyes wrong.
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Believing Kobe Bryant raped a woman when he said he understands why she feels she was raped, is sickening? Or is disliking a rapist (in their eyes) sickening?Comparing genocide with a man who's case was dismissed
I've learned that some of you really really hate Kobe. Usually have a lot of time for your posts but this just sickening.
The comparison Ebou threw up was just to highlight that we can discuss old shit now
Comparing the definite death of 100 000's of Armenian Woman, Children and men, with a rape that may or may not have been a rape is disgraceful. End of.
But we live in a world where 1 American life is worth 10000 brown ones, so who cares. Ok.
He's not actually comparing them.
Using.
Fine. Whatever word you fancy. Either it has something to do with this thread or it's just a random post about it. If it's the latter apologies @Eboue.
It was (very obviously) in response to the ridiculous notion that the case happened ages ago so everyone should just stfu and forget about it.
The same way that when people reference the OJ case it’s to counter the stupid idea that the case being dismissed means he’s innocent, and not to suggest the crimes are the same.
These things are obvious.
Who in this thread asked anyone to just stfu about it though? All i've done is ask people not to act as if he's been convicted and I can't see anyone else asking anyone to shut up about it either?
OJ was used to make the Kobe case look as clear cut as the OJ case.
Which, fair enough, they are entitled to that opinion. But equally I'm allowed to state that I don't think it's even comparable and question the motives to use that perticular case in a thread about Kobe.
Thank you!
It was always important. To me, he was a rapist since that happened. End of story. I won't slobber about what a great player he was, because that is less important to me. I find it important to stress that now, because I am hearing a lot of noise like hero, genius, role-model about him.
Brilliant!
you are clutching for straws mate
Oh no he wasn't.
The quote of the person doing so is right underneath that sentence? At least that is how I understood "personally I think it’s as likely that Kobe was a rapist as OJ is a murderer. ".
Which, again, is fair enough if that's what he thinks. I've stated my reaction to it.
If OJ is brought up just to state that it's theoretically possible to not be found guilty while still being guilty... It's the non statement of the year. Are you going to bring up OJ though when people discuss the person who accused SAF of matchfixing ? Or would you take exception to that? (I would)
As if American citizens know that Armenia is a real country.
I did so too and you misrepresent the intended meaning the way it suits you to I'm afraid.
This thread actually has been encouraged by the likes of you and others to become longer and longer because you want to deny simple and more complex truths and does you no favours to bring up strawman arguments.
I find it funny that people are convinced this was the single blemish on the life of a saint also, I mean if he was just randomly accosting staff in hotels within 15 minutes of arriving, then this wasn't the first(or probably last) time he cheated on his wife. I don't know about the general opinion of that in America, but to me that's scummbaggery in itself.
This thread is titled "What's his legacy" but if anyone says anything that isn't "He was credibly accused and that's all there is to say about his legacy, the case and his character" he gets ridiculed, insulted or is denying simple and complex truths.
I see no point in this anymore.
Good, I'm glad you see no point in it anymore because tbh when you called us all racists without knowing what could possibly be in our hearts I nearly left the Caf because I was thoroughly sickened and depressed but then I thought 'sod you' and continued to talk plain truth.
You're missing the point.
Rape is a non-consensual sexual encounter. That's the definition. When he admits that the woman did not consider the sexual encounter consensual, he per definitionem admitted it was rape.
You might say he was not aware of her lack of consent but his perceived ignorance doesn't mean it's not rape.
You might say it was a calculated statement designed to make the case go away and he didn't actually mean it. It might even be true but the actual words he said still mean that he had a non-consensual sexual encounter, ergo rape.
Whether there was enough evidence to satisfy the standards of a criminal trial, I don't know. On that basis I'm not sure he should have been convicted, if only because of the sanctity of the due process. But again, the words he said still mean that it was rape.
How does he know when apparently the only thing she said no to was ejuculation on the face. "No" or "I don't wanna do this" would be the legit thing to say. Kobe is being labelled a rapist because a girl agreed to come back to his room, get intimate and not communicate she didn't want to go all the way. The case fell apart obviously. He apologised as he was advised to but it was not an admission of guilt
Oh cool somebody else that hasn't read the victim statement. Thanks for your contribution.
Like I said, it's he said she said.
It opens the muddy waters of what is consent? is it a written statement from a woman or a man. Most of the time when "making love" with partners, people tend to not ask each other. It was more non verbal cues as well as physical escalation. Anyways, the case fell apart with too many doubts so...........I ain't coming on here calling man a racist like I am a prosecutor
MJ was innocent and that’s a hill I’m willing to die on.
In the latest accusations (Wade and Safechuck) I would agree. The others I just don't know
I tend to think he was guilty but admittedly the lack of other accusers since the recent two doesn't help their accusations. Personally I'd never die on a hill for someone that I've never met or know.
There is no sliding scale to consent. You either consent to have sex, or you do not. She did not consent.
There are similarities to this case and the Ronaldo case. Probably not in the manner you think, though.
It’s just an expression
Comparing genocide with a man who's case was dismissed
I've learned that some of you really really hate Kobe. Usually have a lot of time for your posts but this just sickening.
For the record you've all made it perfectly clear that you´think he's guilty. I can accept that. Acting as if he was convicted just because you don't like the fact that he wasn't, is in my eyes wrong.
Do you often hear a whooshing noise somewhere above your head but when you look up you have missed it?
Please tell me you are joking?
Him and Michael Jordan are the only basketball players I could name you and the LA Lakers are the only team I could name. That's his legacy there I suppose.
How has anyone not heard of Shaq?
I imagine this is how the (far future hopefully) RIP Ryan Giggs thread would look like on r/NBA... Skewed to the extreme and in no way representative of his mainstream, reasonable legacy analysis
Nope. The FBI investigated him for what? 20 years? Found no evidence. The media ran a smear campaign against him from the beginning. All of the people who accused him were found to have ulterior motives e.g. one of them defended him tooth and nail when he was alive but then when he died he did a complete u turn cos MJ’s lawyers/management didn’t allow him to produce a documentary about him.
edit: it wasn’t to produce a movie my bad it was for a job with his executors but my point still stands
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Who?
It might be a matter of "passive vs active" knowledge. So if someone asks him to name basketball players without any other help, he might just come up with Bryant and Jordan and draw a blank afterwards. Whereas if he's directly asked "do you know who Shaquille O'Neal is?" he'll probably be able to say "oh yeah, he's an NBA player, right?"
I'd definitely bristle if someone cited Giggs as a role model for young players. Exceptional footballer, less than exceptional person.
I know! 'Man's not Hot' is a banger.