SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

golden_blunder said:
About the lab?

It’s not that bonkers really. The only bio level 4 lab that specializes in these type of viruses happens to be in Wuhan the epicenter. In recent days the Chinese have talked about extra security measures being implemented at their lab. Why?

On the other hand I’ve also read that staff from that lab sometimes sell off the animals to the local market for extra money rather than the protocol of incinerating animals that tests have been carried out on.

Either way, I strongly believe that the virus escaped from that lab. It’s too much of a coincidence
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You strongly believe? Well, that's open and shut then.

There's no evidence this virus escaped from any lab. No evidence means forget it.
 
africanspur said:
At the same time as they've just relaxed the 1 child policy?

Of course war will usually result in deaths for you too but usually you don't start wars where the deaths are almost exclusively in your own country and population and, in a dictatorship, invite real criticism from your population onto you for the first time in decades.
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Maybe this is the reason why they relaxed the policy?

Again, you start a war knowing there will be deaths in your country. Does it really matter when those deaths occur?

And do you really think the Chinese government cares about bad press or criticism? As we've seen over the past month, they clearly don't.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Maybe this is the reason why they relaxed the policy?

Again, you start a war knowing there will be deaths in your country. Does it really matter when those deaths occur?

And do you really think the Chinese government cares about bad press or criticism? As we've seen over the past month, they clearly don't.
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But you don't start a war by invading one of your own cities, that'd be stupid.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Maybe this is the reason why they relaxed the policy?

Again, you start a war knowing there will be deaths in your country. Does it really matter when those deaths occur?

And do you really think the Chinese government cares about bad press or criticism? As we've seen over the past month, they clearly don't.
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They relaxed the policy...to kill people off?

Well yes, usually you start a war with some degree of control over what you're doing. You bomb a few cities, shoot down a few planes. You don't unleash a virus (with a relatively low MR and which kills mostly older, sick people) onto your own population with no control over how it spreads. Or if we're going down this rabbit hole, you unleash it somewhere slightly better connected than Wuhan to spread it around the world a bit better.

Actually, I do. Like any dictatorship, they are sensitive to potential threats. The communist party is actually more in tune with its population's desires than I think many in the West believe. Even Xi has apologised and admitted that mistakes were made in how it was handled. And more importantly potentially, Xi has made enemies higher up by his moves to make himself premier for life.

As for a virus which kills mostly older people...I mean, that's most diseases, whether viral, bacterial, fungal. They kill the old and the young because their immune systems are worse.
 
africanspur said:
They relaxed the policy...to kill people off?

Well yes, usually you start a war with some degree of control over what you're doing. You bomb a few cities, shoot down a few planes. You don't unleash a virus (with a relatively low MR and which kills mostly older, sick people) onto your own population with no control over how it spreads. Or if we're going down this rabbit hole, you unleash it somewhere slightly better connected than Wuhan to spread it around the world a bit better.

Actually, I do. Like any dictatorship, they are sensitive to potential threats. The communist party is actually more in tune with its population's desires than I think many in the West believe. Even Xi has apologised and admitted that mistakes were made in how it was handled. And more importantly potentially, Xi has made enemies higher up by his moves to make himself premier for life.

As for a virus which kills mostly older people...I mean, that's most diseases, whether viral, bacterial, fungal. They kill the old and the young because their immune systems are worse.
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I'm really just playing devils advocate here.

I'm not too sure what to believe at this point. Some of the videos and information coming out of China would point towards a possible conspiracy. I just wouldn't completely rule it out.

The other thing I found weird is the fact that this is a simple flu virus that could result in a pandemic. Comapre it to Ebola for instance which is significantly worse than Coronavirus. Yeah, its a different strain but its very similar to the common cold. Theres so much we don't know about this virus.

And going back to the first point - think of it the other way. They relax the 1 child policy knowing that they're planning on wiping out their own very soon anyway. Its a win - win, no?
 
Di Maria's angel said:
To create doubt? Start a war that no one believes to be one. And thus you're not actually weakened as there will be no retaliation.
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So they start a war by eliminating most of their own population while telling the world about this virus which is coming to them so other countries have ample time to make preparations?
 
nickm said:
You strongly believe? Well, that's open and shut then.

There's no evidence this virus escaped from any lab. No evidence means forget it.
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He didn't say it was open and shut. He said it's what he believes, and it's completely rational to think it, even if there's no specific evidence. This is China after all. Relaxed on safety, welfare and telling the truth.

I'm not saying it's what I believe, but you have to admit there's some possibility.
 
Iran are reporting 15 dead and 61 infected. Sounds like bullshit to me.
 
Siorac said:
What? No, not even then. Even then you invade the enemy and not yourself.
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So, lets say China wants to reduce its population during a time its also been pissed off by other nations. What better time to sneakily initiate a "war" where it kills two birds with one stone.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
I'm really just playing devils advocate here.

I'm not too sure what to believe at this point. Some of the videos and information coming out of China would point towards a possible conspiracy. I just wouldn't completely rule it out.

The other thing I found weird is the fact that this is a simple flu virus that could result in a pandemic. Comapre it to Ebola for instance which is significantly worse than Coronavirus. Yeah, its a different strain but its very similar to the common cold. Theres so much we don't know about this virus.

And going back to the first point - think of it the other way. They relax the 1 child policy knowing that they're planning on wiping out their own very soon anyway. Its a win - win, no?
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This has happened before, as recently as 2009 with H1N1. Flu pandemics are not particularly rare in human history and we have had at last 4 in the last 100 years.

Ebola is a totally different family of viruses and causes a different type of disease. It is a viral haemorrhagic fever, with more worrying transmission routes and a significantly higher mortality rate. There is so much we don't know about this virus (in the general population) because, with all due respect, I doubt most people on this board are working in labs or reading science journals. For instance...(https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/atomic-structure-novel-coronavirus-protein)

New mutations spring up all the time for different pathogens and we scramble to map this new organism and respond appropriately.

How is it a win win? If they wanted to kill off their own so much (and they care as little about their own population as people think) they'd probably just kill them directly? China has the death penalty and uses it liberally. Or it could have unleashed it in Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chengdu, Shenzhen, Nanjing or any number of better connected, more populous cities. And then not put the province in lockdown.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
What preparations?
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All of the people buying supplies, self-isolating, the governments of effected countries being ready to close down schools and services. Has the response been slow to this? Yes, but it hasn't spread like wildfire.

This is just getting inane, you're arguing a point you don't really believe. Your time is better spent asking different questions.

1) What do we do if too many people are infected and resources are stretched?
2) Why hasn't the WHO declared a pandemic?
3) What are people who work on zero hour contracts to do without pay if cities are quarantined?
4) How can we stop those who need to work from spreading the virus further?
5) What will the effects be to global trade once this is finished?
 
No one should be allowed to graduate from school until they've clearly understood:
- Socratic paradox
- Occam's razor
- Logic

Even if they would need to stay there one extra year to understand just these three very simple but important concepts.

Only way humanity will go forward.

No one acknowledges ignorance anymore. There are people who don't know the difference between a procariotic and an eucariotic being speculating about how likely it is that this virus was lab-made.

Intenet is spreading stupidity faster than information.
 
balaks said:
This thread is in danger of being taken over by the crazies.
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Redcafe - How can people be so stupid as to vote for Brexit and people like Trump.

-----A couple of coughs and sneezes later--------

Redcafe - Close the borders, close the shops, lock you're windows and don't even look at Italians.


Also I dislike the CCP as much as anyone else but the idea that the party which has helped take more people out of poverty than well everyone else in history, also hates it's own people doesn't really added up.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Not that I believe it but any type of war will result in deaths of your own people. Additionally, maybe they wanted to cut their population down?
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Even if we're entertaining this idea, what would be the point of killing 0.0001 % of your population (it's around there currently, as far as I can see)? It barely even registers.
 
africanspur said:
This has happened before, as recently as 2009 with H1N1. Flu pandemics are not particularly rare in human history and we have had at last 4 in the last 100 years.

Ebola is a totally different family of viruses and causes a different type of disease. It is a viral haemorrhagic fever, with more worrying transmission routes and a significantly higher mortality rate. There is so much we don't know about this virus (in the general population) because, with all due respect, I doubt most people on this board are working in labs or reading science journals. For instance...(https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/atomic-structure-novel-coronavirus-protein)

New mutations spring up all the time for different pathogens and we scramble to map this new organism and respond appropriately.

How is it a win win? If they wanted to kill off their own so much (and they care as little about their own population as people think) they'd probably just kill them directly? China has the death penalty and uses it liberally. Or it could have unleashed it in Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chengdu, Shenzhen, Nanjing or any number of better connected, more populous cities. And then not put the province in lockdown.
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Thanks for the link. And good points.
 
VeevaVee said:
He didn't say it was open and shut. He said it's what he believes, and it's completely rational to think it, even if there's no specific evidence. This is China after all. Relaxed on safety, welfare and telling the truth.

I'm not saying it's what I believe, but you have to admit there's some possibility.
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nah, it's not rational. people can believe whatever they want, but doesn't make it rational.
 
There's money to be made in conspiricy theries nowadays and we all know how fked up the world's media is, so public opinion is always going to go a bit daft with something like this.

Viruses mutate and spread between mammals all the time, humans are a mammal like any other and equally guilty of spreading things to and killing other mammals. Some viruses live in harmony with their host, others cause mayhem.

Characteristics of viruses and the diseases they cause can be very different but there doesn't appear to be anything all that new with this one. It is much less deadlier than something like Ebola, but spreads easier, similar to the likes of Influenza.

There is nothing new here, this has happened throughout time, in the past a deadly virus might just wipe out a village though and that'd be the end of it. Our incredible transport links make that impossible nowadays. We are much more clued up on viruses nowadays too, which provides extra fuel for the news, even compared to 20 years ago.

China seems to have been completely open with their data releases about this virus, the scientific community seems to think so anyway. They published the complete genome sequence of it on 9th Jan.
 
nickm said:
You strongly believe? Well, that's open and shut then.

There's no evidence this virus escaped from any lab. No evidence means forget it.
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No need to be a twat about it fella

So the fact that the epicenter is where the lab is, just a coincidence

The fact that the Chinese have in the past few days talked about stepping up security etc at labs, just a coincidence

Ok then, it came from an ant eater at a wet market where patient zero went to get dinner. Oh that’s right patient zero wasn’t anywhere near a wet market and is in fact a lab assistant in wuhan. Must be another coincidence
 
golden_blunder said:
Ok then, it came from an ant eater at a wet market where patient zero went to get dinner. Oh that’s right patient zero wasn’t anywhere near a wet market and is in fact a lab assistant in wuhan. Must be another coincidence
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Is this at all confirmed? I did a quick search but only came up with a speculative Express article where some study references a lab worker being forced to self quarantine at an unspecified point in the past.
 
golden_blunder said:
No need to be a twat about it fella

So the fact that the epicenter is where the lab is, just a coincidence

The fact that the Chinese have in the past few days talked about stepping up security etc at labs, just a coincidence

Ok then, it came from an ant eater at a wet market where patient zero went to get dinner. Oh that’s right patient zero wasn’t anywhere near a wet market and is in fact a lab assistant in wuhan. Must be another coincidence
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Indeed.

And also, believing the virus is man-made / leaked accidentally from Wuhan's bio lab IS NOT the same thing as believing that China 'did it on purpose' ffs!
 
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