SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Sarni said:
That is terrifying but then again in Italy, China and Korea mortality among under 50s was very very low.
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People (not aiming this at you!) seem to have a really hard time understanding mortality rates. Yes, the mortality rates are low in 20 or 30 year olds but they weren’t zero. And that’s just the % of people who died. A lot who survived will have ended up very unwell, even ventilated.

So hearing stories about young people critically unwell shouldn’t be any kind of surprise to anyone. In fact, it’s to be expected. Which makes anyone who says “I’m young, I’ll be ok” a bit of a fecking idiot tbh.
 
Steerpike said:
Who?? I live alone, and I'm facing, if the worse prognoses are to be believed, up to 18 months in a sort of undeserved solitary confinement. In the absence of data that I can trust, I absolutely refuse to accept that. I will of course take precautions to protect myself, and others indirectly, but I will not become a hermit.
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You are, and I cannot put too fine a point on this, a selfish moron.
 
Prometheus said:
The three/four weeks in between the doctor reporting the cases of the outbreak/atypical pneumonia and quarantine doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Until mid January they were still trying to figure out the illness/data. You can't such drastic measures without complete and proper information.
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It's not unreasonable but that's beside the point. The fact that China didn't totally self isolate from the rest of the world means that unless every other country decided to isolate China, the virus was going to end up everywhere. You basically only need one international airport to ultimately spread it everywhere.

That's why I don't want hear anything about how China did a great job and I don't want to hear any comparison with other countries that are dealing with China's mess, they messed up and to some extent we all let them messed up. Our political leaders have their fair share of blame but China are responsible for 90% of that mess, from the markets in Wuhan to their handling of people's movements in and out of China.
 
How about waiting for a month or two before throwing toys out of the pram and literally killing people with impatience?
Nobody will be locked up for 18 fecking months.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
I think @Steerpike is talking a fair amount of shite in places but you can't just dismiss how huge an ask it is to expect retired people who live alone to just stop socialising for months on end, maybe more. Loneliness isn't some marginal concern in our current situation. It's one of the biggest problems we're going to face.
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I thank you for the empathy, but I'm curious about the 'shite'.
 
duffer said:
A friend has asked me to go bowling tomorrow night. His reasoning is that there will be nobody there and he needs a night away from the wife and kids before we all get locked down (his wife is getting a similar "night off" from him and the kids tonight).

I can kinda see his logic but will probably pass, those bowling shoes are probably dripping in Covid-19.
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i was asked yesterday about a works night out 4th April. I mentioned the virus and the woman looked at me like i had 2 heads
 
Steerpike said:
I obviously don't know your personal circumstances.

Mine are quite simple. I'm a single retired person with, until very recently, an active and multi-dimensional social life. Following the PM's address yesterday, my entire social life disappeared. There isn't a wife at home to keep my spirits up, or such like, so I face this period of potential lockdown alone and I dread it. I was completely happy with the balance I had between a private and social life, and I was able to enjoy the time I spent alone because it was balanced with the time I spent with others. Without that balance, time alone simply becomes loneliness.

It's not that I can't go a day without a pint, it's that I need social interaction. There is a world of difference between 'existence' and 'life', and I'm sure that is something we will all grow to appreciate in the coming weeks.

As I said, I'd happily forego any NHS treatment if that meant that I could proceed with my life with a degree of normality. I'm sure there are plenty of other people of my age who feel likewise (I was talking to a few of them in the pub yesterday). They are also adults, and they made the same choice as I did. I cannot and will not be held accountable for their choices ("What about their familys, friends, people on the street they pass by?").
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Use the phone and internet for social interaction, it's not as good as face to face but it's better than contributing to more people dying.
 
Sweet Square said:
Mate just buy some nice blu rays and some drugs and chill out for a year. Trust me it's great way to waste time.
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I've never done drugs, apart fom alcohol, and I doubt my Blu-Ray and DVD collection will keep me going for a year.

My plan is to take up walking (I wore my new walking boots to the pub to break them in), so hopefully I'll emerge from this crisis fitter (and more obnoxious?) than before.
 
Amar__ said:
He is one of the biggest actors out there, I wouldn't trust him. He is worse than Trump when it comes to interviews.

This is him laughing at the situation on 26th of February(Italy was hit pretty bad back then) with his idiotic past it doctor telling the Serbian people "it's one of the silliest viruses in the entire human history; it's facebook virus. All women should rush to Milano because everything is on sale there these days". He tried to deny the virus because he didn't want to believe that his Chinese investors he made many deals with brought the virus to Europe:




And this is him few days later pretending to be coughing so he can tell his "haters" that it's not a virus, it's just water that made his throat itchy, so he can be in news again:


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Tell us how you really feel about him :lol:

I do agree about the acting bit though, and I woudl expect more of the same from other China allies.
 
Steerpike said:
I've never done drugs, apart fom alcohol, and I doubt my Blu-Ray and DVD collection will keep me going for a year.

My plan is to take up walking (I wore my new walking boots to the pub to break them in), so hopefully I'll emerge from this crisis fitter (and more obnoxious?) than before.
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Injecting just one marijuana can keep you going for days.
 
Steerpike said:
I've never done drugs, apart fom alcohol, and I doubt my Blu-Ray and DVD collection will keep me going for a year.

My plan is to take up walking (I wore my new walking boots to the pub to break them in), so hopefully I'll emerge from this crisis fitter (and more obnoxious?) than before.
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That’s very sensible, good on you! The pub, however, is not sensible.
 
Bit of an odd one from the UK's Coronavirus Bill:
Provide powers to require educational institutions or childcare providers to stay open or relax some requirements around education legislation in order to help these institutions run effectively during the event of an emergency. This could include reducing teacher ratios, adapting school meal standards and relaxing provisions for those with special educational needs. This will ensure that children, young people and those who work with them remain safe, while minimising disruption to everyday life and progression to further and higher education or employment by ensuring schools have the flexibility and support they need to respond pragmatically to the changing situation
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nooshka said:
Thank you for the info mate.
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We are in the same boat. In short, there is no reason you should be particularly worried specifically because you are pregnant. There is nothing so far to suggest that a pregnant woman’s immune system makes them
particularly vulnerable to this particular disease. Any illness during pregnancy will of course be treated seriously though, so at least you go to the top of the triage list. :)

One practical step I’d take is working out a solution if one of you falls ill, for the other to move out to for 7 days. So if one of us gets ill, the other one of us will probably go to my parents’ house for a week. If you don’t have this option, then you will just have to be disciplined at home.
 
South Carolina has now closed down dine in service at all restaurants and bars.

Amazon has halted all shipments from its warehouse except for medical supplies and essential items.
 
Steerpike said:
I thank you for the empathy, but I'm curious about the 'shite'.
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I'm really not sure where you're going with the 'if I could opt out of NHS treatment' thing. It's not really the point. The issue is entirely the risk of you spreading it to one person who spreads it to etc.

But, yeah, plenty of empathy. The government hasn't ordered pubs to close. People here are acting like it's appalling that you're refusing to sacrifice yourself to loneliness for the greater good, at a time we haven't even closed the bloody schools, just feels utterly dismissive.

EDIT - Also think the walking boots sounds a great plan.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Please don't. The very first part... "Italy's fatal mistake was trusting the China regime.... and keeping its borders open with China". So they kept the borders open purely based on trust? Did China tell them to keep it open?

edit: Gatestone Institute is a far-right think tank known for publishing anti-Muslim articles. It was founded in 2008 by Nina Rosenwald, who serves as its president. Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations and former national security advisor, John R. Bolton, was its chairman from 2013 to March 2018. Wikipedia. :wenger:
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Never heard of that website, I've just received the link from a friend. Anyway, it's not an editorial. There are quotes from various sources, such as The Guardian, The Times, WSJ and other scholars. Don't shoot the messenger.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Tell us how you really feel about him :lol:

I do agree about the acting bit though, and I woudl expect more of the same from other China allies.
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:lol:

I hardly noticed him before(knew he was idiot but ignored him), but there's this funny Serbian TV show that I started watching few months ago that mocks politicians here, and him the most, so can't help but laugh at him anytime someone mentions him.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
People (not aiming this at you!) seem to have a really hard time understanding mortality rates. Yes, the mortality rates are low in 20 or 30 year olds but they weren’t zero. And that’s just the % of people who died. A lot who survived will have ended up very unwell, even ventilated.

So hearing stories about young people critically unwell shouldn’t be any kind of surprise to anyone. In fact, it’s to be expected. Which makes anyone who says “I’m young, I’ll be ok” a bit of a fecking idiot tbh.
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I am aware that there’s some distance between even being critical and dying but still surprised to see news like that. I think in Korea it was reported that vast majority did not need to be hospitalized even. It makes me feel uneasy to realize that I may get it someday, and it’s quite realistic that I will and when I get it, I may be worse than I’ve ever been in my life.

I’ve had sore throat with a bit of cough for the last 3 days so my anxiety is high now. Chances are it’s from walking the dog in cold weather recently, without a scarf (silly me) so just normal cold.
 
Steerpike said:
I spent a very happy evening with quite few other selfish morons.
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Yes you did, and as a result you've increased the chance people might catch it, that they'll get ill and ultimately they might die. Sorry, but that's the reality we're in.

I get it, it's shit. I'm self isolating because I have symptoms and I'm stuck in a room that's about 4x4m as I have a housemate. I'm getting grouchy after 2 days. I get it that the governments failed to lead and should have taken the decisions out of people's hands, and I get it that it's daunting and scary. But if people can't do social distancing then we're going to get even more draconian measures for even longer.

You're just shooting yourself in the foot by making silly decisions whether you realise it or not.
 
The woman I was arguing with last weekend who said I can’t walk my dog now is breaking down mentally I think. She posted a picture of people walking on the street (maybe ten of them, few and far between on a big pavement) saying they will have blood on their hands for this. She’s totally lost touch with reality and I think she intends to not leave home for the next 3 months. She doesn’t even go into her garden saying it’s like murder for others. Europeans are not prepared for a long lockdown.
 
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Jesus, no wonder there are so few British astronauts: "F*ck lift-off - I'm going to the pub."
 
Steerpike said:
I've never done drugs, apart fom alcohol, and I doubt my Blu-Ray and DVD collection will keep me going for a year.

My plan is to take up walking (I wore my new walking boots to the pub to break them in), so hopefully I'll emerge from this crisis fitter (and more obnoxious?) than before.
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To be serious for a second, I think we underestimate the toll isolation can have on someone. I've heard talk from a decent amount of people about now getting a pet as a way of breaking up the incoming isolation.
(Although again the best advice to protect yourself and the rest of us is to self isolate)

But anyways as long as you stay safe and be careful around others that's the most important thing.
 
sullydnl said:
There's more to leadership than just implementing measures, though that's obviously the most important part.

It's our national holiday and we're staring straight into an unprecedented crisis over the coming months. It's entirely appropriate for the Taoiseach make a speech that seeks to go beyond policy and actually speak to the people of the country. People are reacting well to the speech because they feel it judged the mood of the country correctly, set the right tone and summed up the scale of what's to come. There's value in that in and of itself.

Further measures and clarity will come at the point the government's scientific advisers deem it most appropriate, which is as it should be. I appreciate that this is a difficult time for businesses but frankly there's a bigger picture here.
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To be honest, I don't think ripping off a couple of famous speeches and throwing in a couple of meme-worthy soundbites while repeating the same things we've already heard is judging the mood of the country. It seems it struck a chord on here but speaking to other people and reading elsewhere it seems many agree with my opinion that it was cringeworthy and vapid.

There is obviously a bigger picture than individual businesses but that is exactly what we are seeking clarity on. They are refusing to clarify the position of certain businesses because they don't want to foot the bill, despite the fact that failure to announce a comprehensive lockdown is jeopardising public health. Failure to issue clear direction to landlords regarding rent is forcing people to work at non-closed, non-essential workplaces and in turn, putting more people at risk.

My business is closed but I've frozen all direct debits and can deal with the fallout later. We'll bounce back eventually so it's not like I'm worried about my own skin here. I sat with my employees yesterday and filled in the emergency welfare payment forms with them, told them we'll pay them any holiday pay they're owed along with last weeks pay check and spoke about how they can speak to their landlords and utility providers about their situation.

Then today one of my chefs rings me, says his landlord has told him he'll reduce the rent (€575 to share a double room in a shared house) by €50 a month but no more. He could move home to his parents but he's afraid that his mother would be vulnerable and he could've been exposed to it.

That's what people are up against.
 
Steerpike said:
I obviously don't know your personal circumstances.

Mine are quite simple. I'm a single retired person with, until very recently, an active and multi-dimensional social life. Following the PM's address yesterday, my entire social life disappeared. There isn't a wife at home to keep my spirits up, or such like, so I face this period of potential lockdown alone and I dread it. I was completely happy with the balance I had between a private and social life, and I was able to enjoy the time I spent alone because it was balanced with the time I spent with others. Without that balance, time alone simply becomes loneliness.

It's not that I can't go a day without a pint, it's that I need social interaction. There is a world of difference between 'existence' and 'life', and I'm sure that is something we will all grow to appreciate in the coming weeks.

As I said, I'd happily forego any NHS treatment if that meant that I could proceed with my life with a degree of normality. I'm sure there are plenty of other people of my age who feel likewise (I was talking to a few of them in the pub yesterday). They are also adults, and they made the same choice as I did. I cannot and will not be held accountable for their choices ("What about their familys, friends, people on the street they pass by?").
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I apologise for disengenously dismissing the valid need for social interaction as "needing a pint", it's a situation that hit too close to home though. My grandparents are currently still going down the pub every day with a similar attitude, and then going home and exposing themselves to my severely disabled cousins. Its frankly terrifying and I'm half the country away and cant do anything for them.

It's hard times, but my point is that there will always be other people who are affected by your actions, even if you consider yourself isolated, and their health is being unfairly risked by other people who are unwilling or unable to modify their lifestyles temporarily in order to help protect them.

From my own point of view I cant see it as anything other than irresponsible
 
JPRouve said:
It's not unreasonable but that's beside the point. The fact that China didn't totally self isolate from the rest of the world means that unless every other country decided to isolate China, the virus was going to end up everywhere. You basically only need one international airport to ultimately spread it everywhere.

That's why I don't want hear anything about how China did a great job and I don't want to hear any comparison with other countries that are dealing with China's mess, they messed up and to some extent we all let them messed up. Our political leaders have their fair share of blame but China are responsible for 90% of that mess, from the markets in Wuhan to their handling of people's movements in and out of China.
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Yeah, I guess that's fair about the markets. 60 minutes went to Wuhan about a week ago and they were still caging animals from different continents together.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
I'm really not sure where you're going with the 'if I could opt out of NHS treatment' thing. It's not really the point. The issue is entirely the risk of you spreading it to one person who spreads it to etc.

But, yeah, plenty of empathy. The government hasn't ordered pubs to close. People here are acting like it's appalling that you're refusing to sacrifice yourself to loneliness for the greater good, at a time we haven't even closed the bloody schools, just feels utterly dismissive.

EDIT - Also think the walking boots sounds a great plan.
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One of the valid criticisms of people who ignore government advice is that they could, themselves, place a burden on the NHS. Whilst I think the risk is overstated, at least for people in my circumsatnces, I accept it exists. The point is a hypothetical one, but I would happily trade off the the option of NHS treatment for Covid-19 in return for greater freedom to go about my life as normal. My risk of passing on the infection, assuming I follow guidelines on social distancing and hand washing, is very small (probably no greater in the pub than the supermarket).
 
I'm allowed to get on a bus, a tube, a train, go to work, go to school, a library, a clothes shop, a barbers, a gym or just walk about the streets and that's OK but if I go to the pub I am a bad guy? Nah, not having that.

I don't actually go to pubs (the last one was probably about 6 months ago and I've got no intention of going to one anytime soon) but are those who do really putting anyone at risk more than someone who sends their kids to school to sit in a small classroom with 29 other little dirtbags?
 
Steerpike said:
One of the valid criticisms of people who ignore government advice is that they could, themselves, place a burden on the NHS. Whilst I think the risk is overstated, at least for people in my circumsatnces, I accept it exists. The point is a hypothetical one, but I would happily trade off the the option of NHS treatment for Covid-19 in return for greater freedom to go about my life as normal. My risk of passing on the infection, assuming I follow guidelines on social distancing and hand washing, is very small (probably no greater in the pub than the supermarket).
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Because if you get it it's not just you who might die, but your friends and family and their friends and family and so on.

Loneliness is shit, pubs are great, booze is great, but no pint is worth someone dying over. I hope you come to realise that in a few days, but you'll have the option taken out of your hands anyway.
 
Steerpike said:
One of the valid criticisms of people who ignore government advice is that they could, themselves, place a burden on the NHS. Whilst I think the risk is overstated, at least for people in my circumsatnces, I accept it exists. The point is a hypothetical one, but I would happily trade off the the option of NHS treatment for Covid-19 in return for greater freedom to go about my life as normal. My risk of passing on the infection, assuming I follow guidelines on social distancing and hand washing, is very small (probably no greater in the pub than the supermarket).
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I bet you would be crying for a resperator if the worst happened mate, karma would be a bitch.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Tell us how you really feel about him :lol:

I do agree about the acting bit though, and I woudl expect more of the same from other China allies.
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We are not China allies by choice.

We have tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried for EU, bending over so many times with no results and at one moments it became like... Ok, the East it is...
 
Fridge chutney said:
This is a good idea and something which I will start doing.
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Start with San Marino. It is they and not Italy that are the worst hit country in the world per capita. Italy is big and has areas less affected. San Marino is right in one of the shit zones.
 
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