SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

OK, so my country (SA) will probably go into lockdown mode within a couple of weeks. At the moment just the hand sanitizer, masks and vitamin C are sold out. We have stocked up on a few things, but to those already in lockdown:

What do you wish you bought when you had the chance?

nothing.

We have bought just what we needed, we have approximately 13 toilet rolls in the house and all the normal stuff, in normal quantities.

if everyone acted like this, rather than the selfish, small minded tools that raided the supermarkets, then there would be no (or very limited) supply issues

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I'd say buy some medicines for flu just in case you end up catching it. It's the only thing I don't have.

 

[esmufc07]

Any good articles on how China dealt with this and their initial cover up ?

 

[Penna]

nothing.

We have bought just what we needed, we have approximately 13 toilet rolls in the house and all the normal stuff, in normal quantities.

if everyone acted like this, rather than the selfish, small minded tools that raided the supermarkets, then there would be no (or very limited) supply issues

There's a difference between hoarding huge quantities, and buying a bit more of things you always use because you don't want to have to go to the shops too often. The latter is quite sensible from a health point of view.

I've always done a weekly shop at a bigger supermarket here and also bought things from the village shop. Now I can't go to the bigger supermarket, so I'm having to shop in a different way.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Any good articles on how China dealt with this and their initial cover up ?

Not China specifically but the BBC have a good one on the Asian countries

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51970379

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

There's a difference between hoarding huge quantities, and buying a bit more of things you always use because you don't want to have to go to the shops too often. The latter is quite sensible from a health point of view.

I've always done a weekly shop at a bigger supermarket here and also bought things from the village shop. Now I can't go to the bigger supermarket, so I'm having to shop in a different way.

I agree to an extent, but also we have a baby, so already buy things like hand sanitiser etc. So we’ve done noting different. Supermarkets are open here (in London) and if everyone shopped normally there would be no (or limited) issues.

shop in Waitrose and your much more likely to have analtercation over pesto, in Asda it will be over a jumbo pack of doughnuts.

 

[Penna]

I agree to an extent, but also we have a baby, so already buy things like hand sanitiser etc. So we’ve done noting different. Supermarkets are open here (in London) and if everyone shopped normally there would be no (or limited) issues.

shop in Waitrose and your much more likely to have analtercation over pesto, in Asda it will be over a jumbo pack of doughnuts.

It's going to vary locally - if you're in London, you have loads of shops. Imagine only having one small shop like the ones at petrol stations, and having to get absolutely everything there (as we're doing). It's not so easy. It never has a lot of anything, even in normal times.

 

[esmufc07]

Not China specifically but the BBC have a good one on the Asian countries

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51970379

Cheers!

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Complete bans on going out now in certain German cities as well as Bavaria. Not everyone is supporting it and German media's response has been mixed. Numerous virologists have come out against it saying it is not justified, has little effect and could lead to a social catastrophe. Notable politicians from Social Democrats and Greens have criticised it and in Berlin the Left Party has blocked a similar proposal. The Federal Government wants to wait until Sunday before making a decision for the whole country.

 

[Feed Me]

Has anyone got any information about UK government policy in respect of how the homeless population is being protected?

Before this whole health crisis erupted, it was clear that homelessness was a major issue, not least because of crippling austerity measures.

Is this most vulnerable section of the population being forgotten about once more?

I ask genuinely because have seen barely any coverage on the matter.

 

[Feed Me]

I don’t think that’s what NHS staff signed up for though is it? Helping people yes, but putting your own life at significant risk- not so sure. It’s important that as this progresses that this is not automatically assumed and almost forced upon NHS frontline staff.

Young and fit healthcare professionals have actually died from this virus, as they are exposed to high viral counts- especially those who are performing intubation.

I wonder whether Boris will give the front line staff a well deserved pay rise after all this?

 

[sullydnl]

Looks like a crucial moment for Ireland, whether we rapidly increase numbers or keep the increase steady. The graphs are eerily similar.

I would have thought we should definitely see a huge increase in numbers as we're ramping up testing quite a bit. We'll supposedly be hiiting 10-12k tests daily in the coming days, which is quite a lot for a country of our size. De Gascun also said that could hopefully subsequently increase further to 15k a day. All of which means a dramatic spike in cases is to be expected. Especially as it will be another 5 or so days before we see the impact of the measures we've already taken on the stats.

The more telling figures will be the number of cases that make it to ICU (currently just over 2%) and the mortality rate, I think.

For example, we're about 14 days behind Italy in terms of that graph you posted. Yet crucially Italy had approx. 100 deaths at that point, we've had three. Even once you adjust for population sizes, that's a key difference.

 

[jojojo]

Has anyone got any information about UK government policy in respect of how the homeless population is being protected?

Before this whole health crisis erupted, it was clear that homelessness was a major issue, not least because of crippling austerity measures.

Is this most vulnerable section of the population being forgotten about once more?

I ask genuinely because have seen barely any coverage on the matter.

As far as I can see, most of it is still being left to the voluntary sector. As the voluntary sector usually contains a lot of oldies and people who've had some kind of health crisis themself, I'm guessing that manpower is going to be thin on the ground.

Fewer opportunities to earn/get money as well. It's not a great combination - and with the pressure the health and social services and the police will be under, it's not obvious who'll pick up the slack.

 

[Drifter]

Has anyone got any information about UK government policy in respect of how the homeless population is being protected?

Before this whole health crisis erupted, it was clear that homelessness was a major issue, not least because of crippling austerity measures.

Is this most vulnerable section of the population being forgotten about once more?

I ask genuinely because have seen barely any coverage on the matter.

Not very well.

Homeless shelters and hostels are being told to stay open during the coronavirus pandemic. The Government’s new guidance on rough sleeping during the outbreak says they do not need to close unless directed to by Public Health England, but they should ‘frequently clean and disinfect regularly touched objects and surfaces’. The guidance warns rough sleepers may be more vulnerable to viruses because of poor existing health or drug and alcohol misuse. Shelters and hostels are being told warned to make contingency plans in case they experience a reduced or interrupted supply of medicines, and reduced access to drugs or alcohol.

If a hostel resident develops coronavirus symptoms, they should stay in their room and ‘minimise visiting shared spaces such as kitchens, bathrooms and sitting areas as much as possible’. If this is not possible, they should be moved to an area which is at least two metres away from other people. Any member of staff who becomes unwell should go home, the Government document advises.

But the new guidance has been criticised as ‘inadequate’ by homeless charities, who say the measures do not go far enough to help people on the streets or living in shelters and hostels to self-isolate. National homelessness charity Crisis is calling on the Government to arrange hotel-style accommodation to meet the increased need. Crisis chief executive Jon Sparkes said: ‘The guidance we have received to date is inadequate. It fails to set out a plan for how people experiencing homelessness can self-isolate in this outbreak. ‘We need emergency action to protect people in this very vulnerable situation – this must include testing and access to housing.

‘Let’s not forget that the average age of death of someone who is homeless is 45, substantially lower than the general population. ‘Given the obvious vulnerability, the only answer can be to provide housing that allows people to self-isolate.’ Lucy Abraham, chief operating officer of the homeless charity Glass Door, said the guidance was ‘welcome’, but it does not specify what individuals should do if they have nowhere to self-isolate.

 

[Withnail]

Currently the UK case trendline is below Italy. Thats a fact and better to remember that when people are getting hyped up by political nonsense. I dont know enough about respective demographics and health facilities to talk about death rates.

Italy went into lockdown at 9000 cases, so following that the UK should do the same by the middle of next week.

Given the state Italy's in with this thing, isn't that the strongest argument for locking down asap?

I don't understand the reasoning behind waiting.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

The replies

Worth remembering that this guy is 70.

That is, he was born 5 years after the war ended and 9 years after the blitz.

The 'we' is very rhetorical.

My grandad didn't experience the blitz, he was in North Africa fighting Rommel, and then through Italy and into Germany.

And if he were still alive, he'd happily punch that ukip turd square in the face for this crap.

 

[esmufc07]

Has anyone got any information about UK government policy in respect of how the homeless population is being protected?

Before this whole health crisis erupted, it was clear that homelessness was a major issue, not least because of crippling austerity measures.

Is this most vulnerable section of the population being forgotten about once more?

I ask genuinely because have seen barely any coverage on the matter.

Get a life.

 

[Withnail]

I would have thought we should definitely see a huge increase in numbers as we're ramping up testing quite a bit. We'll supposedly be hiiting 10-12k tests daily in the coming days, which is quite a lot for a country of our size. De Gascun also said that could hopefully subsequently increase further to 15k a day. All of which means a dramatic spike in cases is to be expected. Especially as it will be another 5 or so days before we see the impact of the measures we've already taken on the stats.

The more telling figures will be the number of cases that make it to ICU (currently just over 2%) and the mortality rate, I think.

For example, we're about 14 days behind Italy in terms of that graph you posted. Yet crucially Italy had approx. 100 deaths at that point, we've had three. Even once you adjust for population sizes, that's a key difference.

Early days but the curve is definitely flatter for Ireland too.

Let's hope the measures the government have introduced are working and it stays that way.

 

[Withnail]

Get a life.

Feck him for caring about the homeless

 

[Moiraine]

Get a life.

Why, he does have a serious issue here.

 

[Wumminator]

Has anyone got any information about UK government policy in respect of how the homeless population is being protected?

Before this whole health crisis erupted, it was clear that homelessness was a major issue, not least because of crippling austerity measures.

Is this most vulnerable section of the population being forgotten about once more?

I ask genuinely because have seen barely any coverage on the matter.

So I’m supposed to believe a guy named “feed me” doesn’t have vested interests here?

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Has anyone got any information about UK government policy in respect of how the homeless population is being protected?

Before this whole health crisis erupted, it was clear that homelessness was a major issue, not least because of crippling austerity measures.

Is this most vulnerable section of the population being forgotten about once more?

I ask genuinely because have seen barely any coverage on the matter.

Like those with zero hours contracts, its being ignored by the government.

At this point, councils should take one closed school or other asset and put there local homeless into them as temporary indoor accommodation.They could still self isolate in a large facility.

If not for humanitarian reasons, then because they will inevitably start infecting people themsleves.

 

[sullydnl]

Currently the UK case trendline is below Italy. Thats a fact and better to remember that when people are getting hyped up by political nonsense. I dont know enough about respective demographics and health facilities to talk about death rates.

Italy went into lockdown at 9000 cases, so following that the UK should do the same by the middle of next week.

To get a decent idea of the comparison you'd want to look at number of cases, amount of testing, percentage of cases that end up in ICU and the death rate. Just looking at the number of cases doesn't tell you much on its own.

 

[Feed Me]

Get a life.

 

[Feed Me]

So I’m supposed to believe a guy named “feed me” doesn’t have vested interests here?

 

[11101]

Given the state Italy's in with this thing, isn't that the strongest argument for locking down asap?

I don't understand the reasoning behind waiting.

You would think so but that is the point at which a lot of countries have initiated lockdowns, so there must be something to it.

Remember the aim is not to eradicate the virus or even flatten the curve as much as possible. The aim is to flatten it to just under healthcare capacity.

 

[esmufc07]

 

[Feed Me]

Not very well.

Thanks.

My principal concern is those homeless people who for one reason or another don’t have access to shelter, which in turn makes self isolating pretty bloody tough.

I see Neville and Giggs are making their hotel available for NHS staff which is laudable but wish more would look at making such spaces available for the homeless too.

 

[Penna]

My grandad didn't experience the blitz, he was in North Africa fighting Rommel, and then through Italy and into Germany.

And if he were still alive, he'd happily punch that ukip turd square in the face for this crap.

My dad too - 8th Army, North Africa and Italy. He'd have a similar response, although he was a peaceful man.

 

[Feed Me]

Feck him for caring about the homeless

I’m not sure if he’s joking or not...

 

[Feed Me]

My dad too - 8th Army, North Africa and Italy. He'd have a similar response, although he was a peaceful man.

Excellent stuff.

I hate people who claim to speak on behalf of the heroes who were actually in the thick of it during the war.

Those who lived through it are some of the most liberal, tolerant and balanced

I agree also that they have no time for the nonsense that prat is going on about on Twitter

 

[Fiskey]

Feck him for caring about the homeless

Why, he does have a serious issue here.

He's living in meme world.

 

[Feed Me]

feck me, that’s absolutely diabolical.

I’ve had a meltdown this morning and left my (in laws) family WhatsApp group because they were chuntering on about “how good a job Boris is doing”

To be honest, I’ve been waiting for an excuse for years

 

[arnie_ni]

Get a life.

Not everyone has seen that tweet....

 

[Feed Me]

He's living in meme world.

Elvis has just explained so all good

I’m not on Twitter any more, too old now

 

[Withnail]

You would think so but that is the point at which a lot of countries have initiated lockdowns, so there must be something to it.

Remember the aim is not to eradicate the virus or even flatten the curve as much as possible. The aim is to flatten it to just under healthcare capacity.

There must be something in it?

Everyone's winging it with this so if other countries are struggling than surely you have to be more agressive than them in order to flatten the curve.

If you find it's too restrictive then you have the option of easing things slightly and seeing how it goes for two weeks which would be more sensible imo.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Complete bans on going out now in certain German cities as well as Bavaria. Not everyone is supporting it and German media's response has been mixed. Numerous virologists have come out against it saying it is not justified, has little effect and could lead to a social catastrophe. Notable politicians from Social Democrats and Greens have criticised it and in Berlin the Left Party has blocked a similar proposal. The Federal Government wants to wait until Sunday before making a decision for the whole country.

I think I'll go mad if I'm not allowed out tbh. Need to go for a bike ride or a run every day both for fitness and my own sanity.

Again though I think this is because people are still hanging out in groups.

How are they organising supermarket visits in other countries? That's genuinely worrying me about the UK now both from the perspective of having to be around larger amounts of people and also of not being able to get anything.

 

[Withnail]

feck me, that’s absolutely diabolical.

I’ve had a meltdown this morning and left my (in laws) family WhatsApp group because they were chuntering on about “how good a job Boris is doing”

To be honest, I’ve been waiting for an excuse for years

Nobody really wants to be in their in laws whatsapp group do they?

I'm barely tolerating my own family's one

 

[Nogbadthebad]

My dad too - 8th Army, North Africa and Italy. He'd have a similar response, although he was a peaceful man.

Yup, that's the thing, and this goes for friends who went to Iraq too.

People who've actually seen war close up, in general don't like it when war is glorified.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I reckon its reaching a point in the UK where it's about saving yourself and those around you. I've advised many other friends and colleagues to do the same. The quicker we act, imo, the less damage.